Is there evidence of something beyond nature?

[Loudmouth]

Clearly you are not able to provide the evidence . . .

Here is the evidence.

"The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang."

Show the evidence that the inflation was prior to the Big Bang and what was interacting, both of these elements are critical to your claim and are not being addressed at all.

What was interacting was the energy as shown by the same temperature being present at opposite sides of the universe. This indicates that energy was mixing prior to spacetime being stretched.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Here is the evidence.

"The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang."



What was interacting was the energy as shown by the same temperature being present at opposite sides of the universe. This indicates that energy was mixing prior to spacetime being stretched.

No it doesn't. In fact, no one but you is making that claim. No one has taken what you are describing here to mean that inflation happened prior to the Big Bang.

 

[EternalDragon]

Here is the evidence.

"The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang."

What was interacting was the energy as shown by the same temperature being present at opposite sides of the universe. This indicates that energy was mixing prior to spacetime being stretched.

Curious that prior to any knowledge of spacetime or much in the way of astronomy, the bible states that God stretched out the universe.

Your evidence is that there was an incident but no evidence as to the cause.

 

[lasthero]

Curious that prior to any knowledge of spacetime or much in the way of astronomy, the bible states that God stretched out the universe.

...like a tent. Which wouldn't make much sense unless the earth was flat and the heavens were stretched over it.

 

[Loudmouth]

No it doesn't. In fact, no one but you is making that claim.

Alan Guth doesn't count?

"Inflation gets around this problem in a very simple way. In inflationary theories the universe evolves from a very tiny initial patch. While this patch was very small, there was plenty of time for it to become uniform by the same mechanism by which a slice of pizza sitting on the table cools to room temperature: things tend to come to a uniform temperature. Once this uniformity is established on the scale of the very tiny patch, inflation can take over and magnify the patch to become large enough to encompass everything that we observe. Thus, inflation provides a very natural explanation for the uniformity of the universe."
Cosmic Questions - Guth: Evidence for Inflation

Last I checked, Alan Guth was a pretty famous astrophysicist. He is also saying that there was interaction prior to the inflation of the universe, prior to the Big Bang.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Curious that prior to any knowledge of spacetime or much in the way of astronomy, the bible states that God stretched out the universe.

Your evidence is that there was an incident but no evidence as to the cause.

Exactly. We see the features in the universe that we should see if Christian Theology is true. A universe without God does not explain the appearance of design, why it should have a beginning or life for that matter. An atheist worldview is inconsistent to the findings of the universe.

 

[Loudmouth]

Curious that prior to any knowledge of spacetime or much in the way of astronomy, the bible states that God stretched out the universe.

Curious that you reject all of this evidence demonstrating that the universe is billions of years old.

 

[Loudmouth]

Exactly. We see the features in the universe that we should see if Christian Theology is true.

Christian theology has a hard firmament with the stars embedded in the firmament which holds back the waters of heaven. The reality of the universe couldn't be farther away from Christian theology.

A universe without God does not explain the appearance of design,

Evidence please.

 

[florida2]

Exactly. We see the features in the universe that we should see if Christian Theology is true. A universe without God does not explain the appearance of design, why it should have a beginning or life for that matter. An atheist worldview is inconsistent to the findings of the universe.

Why shouldn't it have a beginning? Why shouldn't it have life?

The Bible was written in this universe so it's hardly surprising that it describes features of this universe!

 

[Oncedeceived]

...like a tent. Which wouldn't make much sense unless the earth was flat and the heavens were stretched over it.

The symmetry of the universe would bake us in no time at all, but an asymmetry rescues us. Kepler recognized that for the sky to be dark at all, the universe must be “enclosed and circumscribed by a wall or a vault.”

And so it is. That vault is the beginning of time.


http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/08/symmetry_in_the_universe_physics_says_you_shouldn_t_exist.html

 

[Loudmouth]

The symmetry of the universe would bake us in no time at all, but an asymmetry rescues us. Kepler recognized that for the sky to be dark at all, the universe must be “enclosed and circumscribed by a wall or a vault.”

And so it is. That vault is the beginning of time.


http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/08/symmetry_in_the_universe_physics_says_you_shouldn_t_exist.html

The Bible describes a hard firmament where the stars are embedded in the firmament. That is what the tent analogy was describing. it describes all of the stars being in the same plane as in the fabric of the tent. That is clearly wrong.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Why shouldn't it have a beginning? Why shouldn't it have life?

The Bible was written in this universe so it's hardly surprising that it describes features of this universe!

Up until science could investigate the very earliest stages of our universe it was thought to have been eternal.

How did man know prior to any technology that we have today know that the universe would be expanding?

Life is rare according to astrophysicists, it would take 10 to the 500 power of universes to be able to see life on earth according to string theorists.

 

[Oncedeceived]

The Bible describes a hard firmament where the stars are embedded in the firmament. That is what the tent analogy was describing. it describes all of the stars being in the same plane as in the fabric of the tent. That is clearly wrong.

Define hard firmament and explain how it describes stars being in the same plane as in the fabric of the tent.

 

[Loudmouth]

How did man know prior to any technology that we have today know that the universe would be expanding?

He didn't. Even the verse in question uses the verb in the past tense, meaning that the universe was already stretched and had stopped. Also, when you put up a tent, you don't stretch anything to begin with. The fabric is the same size before and after the tent is erected.

 

[Loudmouth]

Define hard firmament and explain how it describes stars being in the same plane as in the fabric of the tent.

Paint stars on the inside of a tent and look around. That is the definition of a hard firmament, and it doesn't reflect the real world.

 

[HitchSlap]

Up until science could investigate the very earliest stages of our universe it was thought to have been eternal.

How did man know prior to any technology that we have today know that the universe would be expanding?

Life is rare according to astrophysicists, it would take 10 to the 500 power of universes to be able to see life on earth according to string theorists.

Which is exactly why the bible should not be considered anything more that a mythical snap shot of Hebrew culture, at this point in time.

 

[Oncedeceived]

He didn't. Even the verse in question uses the verb in the past tense, meaning that the universe was already stretched and had stopped. Also, when you put up a tent, you don't stretch anything to begin with. The fabric is the same size before and after the tent is erected.

He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
Jeremiah 10:12​

He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.
Jeremiah 51:15
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:7

The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Zechariah 12:1


None of these require the stretching to stop.
​

 

[Oncedeceived]

Which is exactly why the bible should not be considered anything more that a mythical snap shot of Hebrew culture, at this point in time.

It was correct, how does that equate to being nothing more than a mythical snap shot of Hebrew culture?

 

[lasthero]

It was correct

Says you and your interpretation of vague terminology.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Paint stars on the inside of a tent and look around. That is the definition of a hard firmament, and it doesn't reflect the real world.

The definition of a hard firmament is paint stars on the inside of a tent and look around? That is pretty ridiculous.