Is there evidence of something beyond nature?

[Oncedeceived]

Please describe this evidence.

Of course, back to your tactic of switching the burden of proof rather than give evidence to back your own claims. You have claimed that there is evidence that space time existed prior to the Big Bang, as of yet you have not provided such evidence.

What you have presented does not provide that space time existed prior to the big bang or what could have interacted with it.

 

[Loudmouth]

Of course, back to your tactic of switching the burden of proof rather than give evidence to back your own claims.

"It has been well documented that the earliest evidence in our universe shows that there was no matter, no space, no time and no energy and more importantly no laws of physics."--Oncedeceived

Please support this claim.

I presented evidence for my claims. Now it is your turn.

You have claimed that there is evidence that space time existed prior to the Big Bang, as of yet you have not provided such evidence.

I did provide it. That evidence is the isotropy of the CMB. Your counterclaim is that there is well documented evidence that shows the opposite. I am asking to see that evidence.

What you have presented does not provide that space time existed prior to the big bang or what could have interacted with it.

You have not even dealt with what I presented. Perhaps you should do that first.

The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang.

 

[justlookinla]

Of course, back to your tactic of switching the burden of proof rather than give evidence to back your own claims. You have claimed that there is evidence that space time existed prior to the Big Bang, as of yet you have not provided such evidence.

What you have presented does not provide that space time existed prior to the big bang or what could have interacted with it.

Yep, so typical. What else can one expect when one promotes the idea that nothing is something?

 

[Loudmouth]

Yep, so typical. What else can one expect when one promotes the idea that nothing is something?

I already supported my claims with evidence. Perhaps you can address the evidence I presented?

 

[Oncedeceived]

"It has been well documented that the earliest evidence in our universe shows that there was no matter, no space, no time and no energy and more importantly no laws of physics."--Oncedeceived

Please support this claim.

I presented evidence for my claims. Now it is your turn.

No you have not. You have made claims about your claims. You do not want to back up your claim and so you are latching on to anything to get out of the requirement for your burden of proof.

I did provide it. That evidence is the isotropy of the CMB. Your counterclaim is that there is well documented evidence that shows the opposite. I am asking to see that evidence.

Provide the evidence that the inflation that occurred did so prior to the Big Bang.

You have not even dealt with what I presented. Perhaps you should do that first.

You've made a claim about a claim. There is no evidence that you have presented for the actual claim.

The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang.

I understand the concept and your analogy of the bath water, that is not the issue. Provide the evidence that the inflation or at least the gravitational waves giving evidence for inflation that occurred did so prior to the Big Bang.

 

[Loudmouth]

No you have not.

Yes, I have.

"The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang."

Provide the evidence that the inflation that occurred did so prior to the Big Bang.

""The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang."

You've made a claim about a claim.

The isotropy of the CMB is a measurement, not a claim.

Provide the evidence that the inflation or at least the gravitational waves giving evidence for inflation that occurred did so prior to the Big Bang.

"The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang.""

 

[Oncedeceived]

Yes, I have.

"The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang."




""The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang."



The isotropy of the CMB is a measurement, not a claim.



"The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang.""

You are wrong to claim the evidence is the isotropy of the CMB, we have known for a long time about it and it was a problem scientists tried to solve. One solution was inflation and that is what the gravitational waves found supported inflation but that evidence in no way shows interaction prior to the Big Bang.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Yep, so typical. What else can one expect when one promotes the idea that nothing is something?

Rather Atypical for someone who demands that only that evidence that is specifically for something rather than supportive of it is the only evidence that can be presented as evidence.

 

[Loudmouth]

You are wrong to claim the evidence is the isotropy of the CMB,

Why?

One solution was inflation and that is what the gravitational waves found supported inflation but that evidence in no way shows interaction prior to the Big Bang.

Why doesn't it?

 

[Loudmouth]

Rather Atypical for someone who demands that only that evidence that is specifically for something rather than supportive of it is the only evidence that can be presented as evidence.

What?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Why?

The isotrophy was a know feature of the universe and inflation a possible solution. The gravitational waves detected supports inflation being the reason. However, there is nothing in this phenomena that gives evidence of interaction prior to the Big Bang.

Why doesn't it?

The isotrophy was the problem, inflation the possible solution and the CBM gravitational waves provides support for inflation being the solution.

 

[Loudmouth]

However, there is nothing in this phenomena that gives evidence of interaction prior to the Big Bang.

Why not?

[it is spelled isotropy]

 

[Oncedeceived]

Why not?

Why would it?

[it is spelled isotropy]

I looked ad that is how I spelled it.

 

[Loudmouth]

Why would it?

"The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang."

I looked ad that is how I spelled it.

You spelled it "isotrophy" in a previous post. Just making sure we are talking about the same thing.

 

[Oncedeceived]

"The evidence is the isotropy of the CMB which evidences interaction of energy prior to the initial inflation of the universe. It is analogous to water in your bathtub. When you first pour the bath the water is hot. If you go away and come back the next day the water in the bathtub is the same temperature as the bathroom. That is because there was time for the water to interact with the rest of the bathroom and reach equilibrium. The same for our universe. The temperature is nearly the same across the early universe which is evidence for interaction prior to the Big Bang."

So I must assume then you have no evidence.

You spelled it "isotrophy" in a previous post. Just making sure we are talking about the same thing.

Oh ok.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Repeating a statement that has no evidence of spacetime being present prior to the Big Bang is not going to substantiate the claim. For a any quantum field theoretical vacuum state to exist there must be a quantum field. How would these fields exist and what evidence is there for them? It matters not what arrangement a field might take, it is an absence of fields at all.

You know, chances are we will never know the specifics of what was and wasn't prior to the Big Bang, right? The nature of the event makes it difficult.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You know, chances are we will never know the specifics of what was and wasn't prior to the Big Bang, right? The nature of the event makes it difficult.

Your point? Loudmouth is claiming that there is evidence that something was nothing and was prior to the Big Bang. I am waiting for that evidence.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Your point? Loudmouth is claiming that there is evidence that something was nothing and was prior to the Big Bang. I am waiting for that evidence.

The fact of the matter is, there isn't enough evidence to be conclusive on the matter to any detailed extent. However, if you consider the Big Bang to be the origin of time and physics as we know it, I don't know if the concept of "before" can actually apply

 

[Oncedeceived]

The fact of the matter is, there isn't enough evidence to be conclusive on the matter to any detailed extent. However, if you consider the Big Bang to be the origin of time and physics as we know it, I don't know if the concept of "before" can actually apply

You are missing the point here Sarah. Loudmouth is claiming just that. I want the evidence to support his claim.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You are missing the point here Sarah. Loudmouth is claiming just that. I want the evidence to support his claim.

Yeah, good luck to him for that hole he dug for himself. This is why I prefer biology