Is there a trend towards literal interpretation of Bible?

[shane50+]

Back in the 80s, when I attended a Presbyterian school, I understood the Bible doesn't change but the Christian interpretation of it does. For example it was once widely understood from the Book of Genesis that the world was created about 6000 years ago. I thought that modern Christians see these events as allegory rather literal truth. Emphasis was on the moral of the story rather than the story itself.

Nowadays it seems the pendulum has swung back towards the literal interpretation - or maybe my church was a very watered-down very form of Christianity. Your thoughts?

 

[AlexB23]

Back in the 80s, when I attended a Presbyterian school, I understood the Bible doesn't change but the Christian interpretation of it does. For example it was once widely understood from the Book of Genesis that the world was created about 6000 years ago. I thought that modern Christians see these events as allegory rather literal truth. Emphasis was on the moral of the story rather than the story itself.

Nowadays it seems the pendulum has swung back towards the literal interpretation - or maybe my church was a very watered-down very form of Christianity. Your thoughts?

Well for me, I believe in a 4.5 billion year world, and a 13.8 billion year old creation. A lot of conservative Christians take the Bible literally. I am a Catholic Christian, and am not conservative, so the Bible is part literal, part metaphorical. But we must take the word of Jesus himself as literal. But most Old Testament stuff does not apply literally in the New Testament world we live in since the Resurrection of Christ in AD 33 or so.

 

[BobRyan]

Back in the 80s, when I attended a Presbyterian school, I understood the Bible doesn't change but the Christian interpretation of it does. For example it was once widely understood from the Book of Genesis that the world was created about 6000 years ago. I thought that modern Christians see these events as allegory rather literal truth. Emphasis was on the moral of the story rather than the story itself.

Nowadays it seems the pendulum has swung back towards the literal interpretation - or maybe my church was a very watered-down very form of Christianity. Your thoughts?

There has always been a lot of Christian denominations affirming the literal understanding of the Bible when it comes to the miracles of Christ, the virgin birth the global flood and the 7 day creation week in Gen 1-2.

I belong to a denomination that Christianity Today called "the fifth largest denomination in the world" in 2015 ( - and at just over 22 million today) - still affirms the literal acceptance of miracles of God such as creation, the flood, the miracles of Christ, the bodily resurrection, virgin birth etc.

But slowly over time - some denominations have been selectively dismissing some miracles of God as "symbolic' and others as "still literal".

IN the case of the creation account given in Gen 1-2 -- it is hard-wired into legal code in Ex 20:11 - - chiseled into stone "for in six days the LORD (YHWH) made the heavens and the Earth the seas and all that is in them" Exodus 20:11 - repeated again in Rev 14:7.

So you can still find groups dismissing all that as "somehow symbolic" or "somehow allegory".

 

[AlexB23]

There has always been a lot of Christian denominations affirming the literal understanding of the Bible when it comes to the miracles of Christ, the virgin birth the global flood and the 7 day creation week in Gen 1-2.

But slowly over time - some denominations have been selectively dismissing some miracles of God as "symbolic' and others as "still literal".

IN the case of the creation account given in Gen 1-2 -- it is hard-wired into legal code in Ex 20:11 - - chiseled into stone "for in six days the LORD (YHWH) made the heavens and the Earth the seas and all that is in them" Exodus 20:11 - repeated again in Rev 14:7.

So you can still find groups dismissing all that as "somehow symbolic" or "somehow allegory".

Some people say these days of creation mean eons, or eras. Maybe not quite the eons defined by geologists, but still different phases.

Phase 1: Creation of universe.
Phase 2: Creation of sky and water (maybe hydrogen clouds in the universe)
Phase 3: Creation of land (earth), sea (water) and plants (potentially bacteria and phytoplankton)
Phase 4: Earth's atmosphere becomes transparent (as single celled photosynthetic bacteria cleaned up the air, allowing the sun, moon and stars to shine through.
Phase 5: Creation of birds and fish (life spreads on Earth)
Phase 6: Creation of animals and humans
Phase 7: God rests.

 

[BobRyan]

Some people say these days of creation mean eons, or eras. Maybe not quite the eons defined by geologists, but still different phases.

Phase 1: Creation of universe.
Phase 2: Creation of sky and water (maybe hydrogen clouds in the universe)
Phase 3: Creation of land (earth), sea (water) and plants (potentially bacteria and phytoplankton)
Phase 4: Earth's atmosphere becomes transparent (as single celled photosynthetic bacteria cleaned up the air, allowing the sun, moon and stars to shine through.
Phase 5: Creation of birds and fish (life spreads on Earth)
Phase 6: Creation of animals and humans
Phase 7: God rests.

In Genesis 1 :

Day 3 - God creates plants
Day 4 God creates the sun and moon.

So then - how many billions of years do "some people" think the plants were around prior to the sun? How is that sort of belief "helping" them?
What scientists does that group of "some people" know of - claiming that the plants on Earth came about billions of years before the Sun in our solar system???
=======

In Genesis 1 what we have is this -- in the text.

Intro in Genesis 1 - God created everything. He is the creator of everything -- just like John 1 says.

Each day in Genesis is "a single evening and morning" - so then when part night and next part day.

Day 1 -- God creates light on Earth without identifying the light source.
Day 2 - God creates our atmosphere
Day 3 -- Dry land and plants created in a single evening and morning.
Day 4 -- TWO great lights created (Sun and moon)
Day 5 - Birds and fish created in a single evening and morning
Day 6 - all land animals and two humans created in a single evening and morning.

Gen 2:1-3 - the 7th day - a day of rest, sanctified.


Ex 20:11 hard wires all 7 days as literal days -- in actual legal code

 

[AlexB23]

In Genesis 1 :

Day 3 - God creates plants
Day 4 God creates the sun and moon.

So then - how many billions of years do "some people" think the plants were around prior to the sun? How is that sort of belief "helping" them?
What scientists does that group of "some people" know of - claiming that the plants on Earth came about billions of years before the Sun in our solar system???
=======

In Genesis 1 what we have is this -- in the text.

Intro in Genesis 1 - God created everything. He is the creator of everything -- just like John 1 says.

Each day in Genesis is "a single evening and morning" - so then when part night and next part day.

Day 1 -- God creates light on Earth without identifying the light source.
Day 2 - God creates our atmosphere
Day 3 -- Dry land and plants created in a single evening and morning.
Day 4 -- TWO great lights created (Sun and moon)
Day 5 - Birds and fish created in a single evening and morning
Day 6 - all land animals and two humans created in a single evening and morning.

Gen 2:1-3 - the 7th day - a day of rest, sanctified.


Ex 20:11 hard wires all 7 days as literal days -- in actual legal code

Plants came after the sun was born, but the sunlight was hidden from view by the Earth's toxic atmosphere billions of years ago. Day four reveals the sun and moon, not created the sun and moon.

By the way, how come you have a black hole as your avatar? Most Christian people into astronomy believe in old-earth creationism. Just asking, nothing more.

 

[BobRyan]

Plants came after the sun was born, but the sunlight was hidden from view by the Earth's toxic atmosphere billions of years ago. Day four reveals the sun and moon, not created the sun and moon.'

So then Day 3 does not tell us that plants were in a toxic atmosphere - for billions of years - I guess someone may need to insert that. But how is it a single "evening and morning" in that case? They would need "sun already created, atmosphere already good for plants, Sun already heating Earth's atmosphere..." as their "day 3". That is called "eisegesis" where someone simply reads into the text all the elements they need even if it contradicts the text and is clearly not the intent of the author of the text.

Day 4 says two lights were made on Day 4.

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; 15 and they shall serve as lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

The is no "reveals ... rather than made/created" idea there.

By the way, how come you have a black hole as your avatar? Most Christian people into astronomy believe in old-earth creationism. Just asking, nothing more.

I agree with "observable science" and that includes black holes existing.

I also agree that Genesis 1:1 is speaking about the entire universe not just this Earth - when it says God made everything.

But that is a 1 verse summary statement. What follows is the 7 day account for our Earth and our Solar system.

The rest of the Universe - also created by God -- but at an unspecified earlier date.

 

[AlexB23]

So then Day 3 does not tell us that plants were in a toxic atmosphere - for billions of years - I guess someone may need to insert that. But how is it a single "evening and morning" in that case?

Day 4 says two lights were made on Day 4.

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; 15 and they shall serve as lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

The is no "reveals ... rather than made/created" idea there.

I agree with "observable science" and that includes black holes existing.

I also agree that Genesis 1:1 is speaking about the entire universe not just this Earth - when it says God made everything.

But that is a 1 verse summary statement. What follows is the 7 day account for our Earth and our Solar system.

The rest of the Universe - also created by God -- but at an unspecified earlier date.

God made everything, but he made stuff long ago. Just look at the layers of sediment. That stuff is from millions of years ago.

Edit: This thread is not a place to debate YEC, OEC or day age creationism, only to discuss if there is a trend of literal Bible interpretation in the recent past.

 

[BobRyan]

God made everything, but he made stuff long ago. Just look at the layers of sediment. That stuff is from millions of years ago.

Mt St. Helen's created a mini-grand-canyon layering effect that most geologist would argue - took millions of years if they did not know the eruption was recent.

reading backwards into the observation whatever one's bias demands does not help get to a point of accuracy as in that case.

The age of rocks - determined by fossils (index fossils) -- the age of fossils determined by rocks found at that same layer. It is circular.

 

[BobRyan]

One can make a "science argument" against the virgin birth, resurrection of Christ, bodily ascension of Christ, 7 day creation week. Just as many atheists do that very thing -- But it amounts to guessing.

No one can take a bacteria and get it to become a eukaryote no matter how many 10's of thousands of generations it is given to "evolve". It simply does not happen.

 

[AlexB23]

Mt St. Helen's created a min-grand-canyon layering effect that most geologist would argue - took millions of years if they did not know the eruption was recent.

reading backwards into the observation whatever one's bias demands does not help get to a point of accuracy as in that case.

The age of rocks - determined by fossils (index fossils) -- the age of fossils determined by rocks found at that same layer. It is circular.

If you insist on a young earth. I believe in an old earth, plus, that makes God even more amazing, as 4.5 billion years is really old for our Earth, and puts into perspective how old God is, which is infinite. If a person lives to 90 years old, Earth has been around for 50 million times longer. But if the Earth is only 6000 yrs old, that means the earth is only 67x older compare to that human who lived to 90. The OEC makes me feel smaller, and makes us feel smaller compared to God and His creation, and makes me more impressed by the nearly 14 billion year old cathedral with nearly infinite vaulting distances in each direction God made for us, dubbed the universe.

The Cambrian explosion is the biggest evidence for God's creation in my opinion, as He introduced many new multicellular species in a short span of time.

Let's get back to the OP's original topic though.

 

[Divide]

Well for me, I believe in a 4.5 billion year world, and a 13.8 billion year old creation. A lot of conservative Christians take the Bible literally. I am a Catholic Christian, and am not conservative, so the Bible is part literal, part metaphorical. But we must take the word of Jesus himself as literal. But most Old Testament stuff does not apply literally in the New Testament world we live in since the Resurrection of Christ in AD 33 or so.

Wait a minute. Ours is the God which tells the end from the beginning, right? So then the OT would apply today in the same ways as the OT as types and shadows of things to come. When I realized that, the OT came alive for me!

As to the question, Literally is how I see most of the bible. Every time that I thought there was a contradiction or something it was by reading it more literally that I clearded up my confusion.

Sure there is allegory in scripture. Just not as much as people think. How they say, God says what He means and means what He says. He is not the author of confusion. It's mostly very simple.

There's parables too and they're kinda weird in that the story and people are fiction, but it teaches about spiritual and biblical truths.

 

[AlexB23]

Wait a minute. Ours is the God which tells the end from the beginning, right? So then the OT would apply today in the same ways as the OT as types and shadows of things to come. When I realized that, the OT came alive for me!

As to the question, Literally is how I see most of the bible. Every time that I thought there was a contradiction or something it was by reading it more literally that I clearded up my confusion.

Sure there is allegory in scripture. Just not as much as people think. How they say, God says what He means and means what He says. He is not the author of confusion. It's mostly very simple.

There's parables too and they're kinda weird in that the story and people are fiction, but it teaches about spiritual and biblical truths.

Ok. But the OT was more poetic.

 

[Laodicean60]

But slowly over time - some denominations have been selectively dismissing some miracles of God as "symbolic' and others as "still literal".

No No No No No! At 50 years old I cried for help because of alcoholism and I had been born again 10 years before that. I started to read the bible like crazy after deliverance but when I got to the NT and the healing part. I told God that I don't believe this stuff, please show me. I've never seen healing for 50 years of my life. I begged I guess supplication for several weeks while praying and reading the Gospels. Because I wanted to believe the bible. Andrew Wommack helped me during this time.

Three Months later Dec 2019 I came home from work and was preparing my plate when I heard an authoritative voice "Call Your Mom". She was having a stroke at that very moment! I flew out the next day to Houston. A few days later a brother-in-law called and told me his shoulder healed by a priest. That's when I sat in my car praising God for the answered prayer.

This September I had a heart attack over stressing (12 months of nuts) for my kids and what's going on in the world. The first day I was home I needed to walk and walk half a block then all of a sudden I could breathe. Scared me, so I went home. I got on my knees and told God to heal me using scripture telling him and begging, I wanted more time with my grandchildren, crying......

The next day I started to walk and I walked 1.5 miles and could have gone further but I'm lazy. The kicker was when I saw my cardiologist four days later and the expression on his face when I told him I walked 2 miles. Confirmed that something natural didn't happen. He asked me "You didn't have shortness of breath?" I said no.

I have an echo tomorrow and I'm curious what my ejection fraction number is.

It's a Mystery why but I do understand because my kids don't believe me. Peace

 

[Divide]

Some people say these days of creation mean eons, or eras. Maybe not quite the eons defined by geologists, but still different phases.

Phase 1: Creation of universe.
Phase 2: Creation of sky and water (maybe hydrogen clouds in the universe)
Phase 3: Creation of land (earth), sea (water) and plants (potentially bacteria and phytoplankton)
Phase 4: Earth's atmosphere becomes transparent (as single celled photosynthetic bacteria cleaned up the air, allowing the sun, moon and stars to shine through.
Phase 5: Creation of birds and fish (life spreads on Earth)
Phase 6: Creation of animals and humans
Phase 7: God rests.

I used to think that. But I heard an explanation of how both can be true, 6 day creation and 13.5 billion year old universe. It is a matter of perspective. God is not only everywhere at once, He is also everywhere at once at every time. So He can see into the future because He is there. So God is at the creation right now and His perspective is looking forward into time.

As soon as God created the heavens and the earth, it began expanding. Space is expanding. Right? Now it's Spacetime because they figured out that space expands at the same rate as time. You with me?

But we are within times influence and we can only see backwards in time, not forward. While God's persoective can be said to be like looking from where He is through binoculars and He sees a great distance. And man (sees through a glass darkly) is like looking through the wrong end of the binoculars, through the objective lens. Backwards. So it is distorted and that''s what scripture says too, we see as through a glass darkly.

And from God's perspective, everything fell right into place in 6 days. But it seems like 13.5 Billion years to man looking theugh a distorted lens.

That makes sense to me. I guess that would mean, we didn't evolve and then come into being. We first came into being and then began to evolve on our own.
(And we ALL got it wrong and flunked!) It dont have much to do with biological eveolution, does it? No, this is a spiritual evolution that we're doing here.

 

[AlexB23]

I used to think that. But I heard an explanation of how both can be true, 6 day creation and 13.5 billion year old universe. It is a matter of perspective. God is not only everywhere at once, He is also everywhere at once at every time. So He can see into the future because He is there. So God is at the creation right now and His perspective is looking forward into time.

As soon as God created the heavens and the earth, it began expanding. Space is expanding. Right? Now it's Spacetime because they figured out that space expands at the same rate as time. You with me?

But we are within times influence and we can only see backwards in time, not forward. While God's persoective can be said to be like looking from where He is through binoculars and He sees a great distance. And man (sees through a glass darkly) is like looking through the wrong end of the binoculars, through the objective lens. Backwards. So it is distorted and that''s what scripture says too, we see as through a glass darkly.

And from God's perspective, everything fell right into place in 6 days. But it seems like 13.5 Billion years to man looking theugh a distorted lens.

That makes sense to me. I guess that would mean, we didn't evolve and then come into being. We first came into being and then began to evolve on our own.
(And we ALL got it wrong and flunked!) It dont have much to do with biological eveolution, does it? No, this is a spiritual evolution that we're doing here.

Understandable. But let's not talk about this anymore. Back to the OP

 

[Divide]

Ok. But the OT was more poetic.

I love that story about Jacob and Rachael and Leah. The girls father, Laban was treacherous to Jacob. Made him work 7 years to get his daughter to Wife, then gave him the wrong girl so Jacob had to work another 7 years for the one he wanted. Not to give spoilers here, but there is somepoetic justice at the end, lol!

I watched a video where they say that Trump is doing the same thigns as Cyrus in the OT. (IDK).

 

[AlexB23]

I love that story about Jacob and Rachael and Leah. The girls father, Laban was treacherous to Jacob. Made him work 7 years to get his daughter to Wife, then gave him the wrong girl so Jacob had to work another 7 years for the one he wanted. Not to give spoilers here, but there is somepoetic justice at the end, lol!

I watched a video where they say that Trump is doing the same thigns as Cyrus in the OT. (IDK).

Oh, of course. Why does the former president/wannabe fascist have to be brought up in every conversation, even if it is not remotely related to the OP?

 

[HTacianas]

Back in the 80s, when I attended a Presbyterian school, I understood the Bible doesn't change but the Christian interpretation of it does. For example it was once widely understood from the Book of Genesis that the world was created about 6000 years ago. I thought that modern Christians see these events as allegory rather literal truth. Emphasis was on the moral of the story rather than the story itself.

Nowadays it seems the pendulum has swung back towards the literal interpretation - or maybe my church was a very watered-down very form of Christianity. Your thoughts?

You said "back in the 80s". We can go back a bit further than that to circa 220 AD. Origen deduced from the internal wording of Genesis that it did not imply six literal days. Note that Origen had nothing to compare it to, only its own wording. A close reading of Genesis will prove that out. Since Origen's time there has been no defined teaching on the age of the earth within Christianity. Some of the early Church Fathers stated that the universe was created as-is all at once, some said other things. If someone demands that you accept their version of creation try to stay away from them.

 

[AlexB23]

You said "back in the 80s". We can go back a bit further than that to circa 220 AD. Origen deduced from the internal wording of Genesis that it did not imply six literal days. Note that Origen had nothing to compare it to, only its own wording. A close reading of Genesis will prove that out. Since Origen's time there has been no defined teaching on the age of the earth within Christianity. Some of the early Church Fathers stated that the universe was created as-is all at once, some said other things. If someone demands that you accept their version of creation try to stay away from them.

Agreed. I was hoping for someone to post this. Origen definitely had a lot of good to say on when the universe "Origen"-ated, which he said was never stated in the Bible. And if someone forces YEC, or even OEC on someone, it is good to stay away from them. Jesus is all that matters, not the age of the universe. People have debates on such shallow things sadly.

I am an OEC by the way, but that does not matter.