IS THE WILL OF HUMANS CONTROLLED BY GOD?

[CharismaticLady]

(Romans 8:28-30).

Great verse, I was looking for that verse a while ago, so thanks.

But now I can't remember what the question was.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Great verse, I was looking for that verse a while ago, so thanks.

But now I can't remember what the question was.

Happens to me all the time.

 

[witness12]

Is the will of humans controlled by God?

I hope I can help you. I have seen this truth in the Spirit.

A man can do nothing apart from God, and a man does what is in his heart. God’s word went forth as an ongoing work on the 7th day and that was the rest He took. He rested from His own works, and His word then upheld all things.

His word is still active. Does not wisdom cry aloud in the streets? Does she not cry in the paths of the places? His word causes what is in a man’s heart to unfold. A man is deceived thinking he is the one breathing when it is God who gives breath to all.

I have seen it very powerfully, driving down the highway, I saw the people in their cars being moved by the wind. They thought they were the ones driving on their own accord but God allows them to do what they will to do in their heart.

Our hope is Christ Jesus - God manifesting Himself in our world for direct intervention. We pray to God that His right arm saves us and His word leads us on the path of eternal life.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I hope I can help you. I have seen this truth in the Spirit.

A man can do nothing apart from God, and a man does what is in his heart. God’s word went forth as an ongoing work on the 7th day and that was the rest He took. He rested from His own works, and His word then upheld all things.

His word is still active. Does not wisdom cry aloud in the streets? Does she not cry in the paths of the places? His word causes what is in a man’s heart to unfold. A man is deceived thinking he is the one breathing when it is God who gives breath to all.

I have seen it very powerfully, driving down the highway, I saw the people in their cars being moved by the wind. They thought they were the ones driving on their own accord but God allows them to do what they will to do in their heart.

Our hope is Christ Jesus - God manifesting Himself in our world for direct intervention. We pray to God that His right arm saves us and His word leads us on the path of eternal life.

Is God moving people to do all the evil they do too?

 

[witness12]

Is God moving people to do all the evil they do too?

i don’t believe He is. To whom you present yourselves slaves to is your master

 

[Dorothy Mae]

i don’t believe He is. To whom you present yourselves slaves to is your master

So he’s not moving everyone around

 

[witness12]

So he’s not moving everyone around

No, he is allowing it. Without His word that brings all things into one, the universe would be nonexistent.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, he is allowing it. Without His word that brings all things into one, the universe would be nonexistent.

To stop it would be the worst tyranny in the universe. So that’s not saying much. People do not do his will is more accurate. So He is not responsible for what people do is actually vital. He sets borders, that is it.

His word brought all things into existence but after that we chose freely. He rested from speaking words that brought things into existence so that was over long long ago. It isn’t applicable to what we choose today.

 

[witness12]

To stop it would be the worst tyranny in the universe. So that’s not saying much. People do not do his will is more accurate. So He is not responsible for what people do is actually vital. He sets borders, that is it.

His word brought all things into existence but after that we chose freely. He rested from speaking words that brought things into existence so that was over long long ago. It isn’t applicable to what we choose today.

I disagree.

His word is our life. His disciples confessed they had no where else to go, for he had the words of eternal life.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I disagree.

It’s not a private matter one can disagree on and have a valid understanding. God said he rested and since then no word to create something out of nothing ever happened again. You can, of course, refuse to think the truth. Not even the word of God can prevent that if a man so chooses.

His word is our life.

Only to the degree we obey it.

His disciples confessed they had no where else to go, for he had the words of eternal life.

And eventually all but one lived it. It wasn’t an esoteric experience.

 

[witness12]

[QUOTE="Dorothy Mae, post: 74727665, member: 409954”] God said he rested and since then no word to create something out of nothing ever happened again.
[/QUOTE]

Aren’t we born again by the word of God?

Doesn’t he call into being things that are not as though they were?

In Christ all things become new.

Have you ever experienced this life changing phenomenon? God promises by His word eternal life to all who believe and obey the gospel of His Son.

 

[witness12]

To stop it would be the worst tyranny in the universe. So that’s not saying much. People do not do his will is more accurate.

I could be wrong, but I believe you are thinking something different than what I am saying., because you said that’s not saying much.
You need to remember that even the demons serve the LORD. So yes, the disobedient aren’t doing God’s will but I testify I have seen even they are unable to act without God. All things are under God, even the spirits that influence people in the world, which we call demons.

God does this because it is serving His purpose. every knee will bow and every tongue will confess to the glory of the Father. You can choose which side you fall by the sword. Don’t let the “sides” of good and evil deceive you into thinking God is on one side and the devil on the other, at equal levels, as if two men were to arm wrestle. The devil is a servant of the LORD and was made to be a servant since the beginning.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

[QUOTE="Dorothy Mae, post: 74727665, member: 409954”] God said he rested and since then no word to create something out of nothing ever happened again.


Aren’t we born again by the word of God?

Peter preached to the crowd that they must repent and believe. Was their choice. So if we embrace and believe,that is, DO the Word if God, then yes.

Doesn’t he call into being things that are not as though they were?

Not creating new things. He said He rested from creation.

In Christ all things become new.

As long as one stays in Christ and that’s not creating something out of nothing. That’s changing.

Have you ever experienced this life changing phenomenon? God promises by His word eternal life to all who believe and obey the gospel of His Son.

Did this decades ago. Now I understand and know Him meaning I can explain His ways to others. They aren’t a mystery to me anymore.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I could be wrong, but I believe you are thinking something different than what I am saying., because you said that’s not saying much.
You need to remember that even the demons serve the LORD. So yes, the disobedient aren’t doing God’s will but I testify I have seen even they are unable to act without God. All things are under God, even the spirits that influence people in the world, which we call demons.

You say this but wbere does He say demons are his servants? Why are the evil condemned if they are unable to do evil unless God actively empowers them? Why is he angry if he just empowered the evil to rape andmurder? Your position dishonors God by making him into he who empowers evil.

God does this because it is serving His purpose. every knee will bow and every tongue will confess to the glory of the Father. You can choose which side you fall by the sword.

You see, I don’t see him doing this at all and I have seen how Godhates evil. He doesn’t hate those he empowers.

.
Don’t let the “sides” of good and evil deceive you into thinking God is on one side and the devil on the other, at equal levels, as if two men were to arm wrestle. The devil is a servant of the LORD and was made to be a servant since the beginning.

When does God call the Devil, “my servant?” Please provide evidence that God sees the Devil as a servant? That He limits or uses the Devil doesn’t make that being his servant. I use a hammer now and again but it’s still not my servant.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Two different things. Man has free will and there is no assurance it will agree with God's will seeing as not everyone is saved, but it is not God's will that any should perish.

Job 42:2 "I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee".

So you mean to say God's thought can be thwarted?

 

[Si_monfaith]

God clearly says in His word that people did (and do) things not in his will. It’s usually called sin.

Are you confusing between God's decree & God's command?

 

[Si_monfaith]

i have had answered on this question. for me this topic is clear. i am not talking, what i think, i had testimony, what it was like.

If the human will is free from active external influencing & cannot be made to take a particular decision, why did the Holy Spirit record saying, "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted (John12:40)".

 

[Si_monfaith]

I think a better question might be why would man need to repent if God controlled man’s will.

You have to first prove repentance is a free act of human will.

If the human will is free from active external influencing & cannot be made to take a particular decision, why did the Holy Spirit record saying, "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted (John12:40)".

 

[Si_monfaith]

I believe in God's grace just fine in these verses you mentioned. The Bible talks about two aspects of salvation and not just one. There are three verses that say we need both God's grace and Sanctification as a part of salvation. See: John 5:24, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and James 2:24. Living holy, putting away sin, works of righteousness, and not having a mindset that justifies sin is a part of the Sanctification Process after a person is saved by God's grace. Paul was fighting against "Works ALONE Salvationism" (that did not include God's grace) that was a result of "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which was a popular heresy at that time that taught that you had to be first circumcised in order to be saved). This heresy was addressed at the Jerusalem council.

1. Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
   
   
2. Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
   
   
3. Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

Circumcision is a part of the 613 laws of Moses. We are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or contract. We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. Paul said in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Circumcision is of the Old Law and not the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. Paul essentially says in Titus 1:16 that you can deny God by a lack of works. Salvation is not in just grace alone, and neither is it in works alone. We need a healthy balance of both God's grace and Sanctification. If not, then we are just following whatever we prefer vs. what God's Word says.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So you want to be saved by part grace & part works? You want to trust in both Christ & your self to be saved?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Yet, you are not explaining those verses I presented on Free Will. If you want to be fair in handling the truth, you have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word, and make a case for your defense in all of what it says. God's foreknowledge = future foreknowledge. God can elect based on his future knowledge (or foreknowledge). So if God sees men doing something in the future of their own free will towards God, He can say that these men are "elect" or chosen ahead of time. God is one step ahead of man. We see God's foreknowledge and election mentioned in 1 Peter 1:1-2.

Why the need to elect those whom God foreknows would believe? They would believe anyway. Why the need to elect them? What difference is God's election going to make? Does your view of election make any sense?