Is the RFID Chip the Mark of the Beast?

BryanN84 said:

Well I understand as an official entity the RCC didn't come into "power" jntil the 5-6th century but they do trace their lineage back to Peter in Rome so I think it is safe to assume they were organized then.

Click to expand...

By that same token, you would have to point to the Thomasine churches in Iraq and India as being the "true" church, as the trace their doctrinal lineage to the apostle Thomas.

It was Constantine who made the church Roman and then made it "catholic." Prior to Constantine, the church did not recognize Rome as the head of its leadership. The bishops in Rome were highly regarded, but not more highly than the bishops in Alexandria and other locations. Constantine, as emperor, elevated the bishops in Rome by imperial decree and "catholicized" Christian doctrine by imperial decree.

RDKirk said:

By that same token, you would have to point to the Thomasine churches in Iraq and India as being the "true" church, as the trace their doctrinal lineage to the apostle Thomas.

It was Constantine who made the church Roman and then made it "catholic." Prior to Constantine, the church did not recognize Rome as the head of its leadership. The bishops in Rome were highly regarded, but not more highly than the bishops in Alexandria and other locations. Constantine, as emperor, elevated the bishops in Rome by imperial decree and "catholicized" Christian doctrine by imperial decree.

Click to expand...

Interesting! Thanks!

BryanN84 said:

There is still NO WAY the "mark" is going to be some sneaky squirrel operation in which people will be duped into getting it. You WILL know what it is when the time comes and you WILL have to choose, take it or don't. By that choice of will, a person will be jusged by scriptures...

It will not be something they slip into a needle that they claim to be something else like a regualr shot, then boom you have the mark without knowing it. God says plainly those who take the mark will be closed off forever, there is no repentance from it because they choose to follow satan and reject God.

Click to expand...

I REALLY hope this is true.

Also, I'm surprised this thread is still going, good conversation .

Even if it's not the mark, it will be a horrible thing beyond comprehension. Imagine being tracked 24/7 via GPS, that's the RFID.

I do agree that the mark will be extremely obvious, but, with satan being the most deceptive being to ever exist, isn't there the possibility he'll use that deception and not tell people the RFID is the mark? It's insane how deceptive he is, just look at the entertainment industry (mainly pop, rap, TV, news). With all of those things deceiving people daily, how easy would it be to just give people the mark without giving them the hint that it's the mark of the beast?

I don't really think we'll ever have a definitive answer, and for my family's sake, and everyone in the world's sake, I pray to God the mark won't be put in to people deceptively, and that they will be given a clear choice. I can just imagine all the parents that would get it unknowingly just so their kids can eat, such a worrisome thought, but it's hard to not think about it. I pray daily that The Lord will show us the correct path, since the end times are rather close.

michaelmynameIs said:

neither are correct the rcc came along hundreds of years after the church outlined in the book of acts and has been consistently guilty of murdering those who would not submit to its popes and its idolatry in Mary worship.
it has never been a part of the original Church which is built by the Holy Spirit . Not man. being the biggest is not an endorsement -- wide is the way that leads to destruction,,

Click to expand...

That's really going to warm the heart's of what looks to be a pretty vibrant Catholic community on this board. As a newbie, it's nice to see you all getting along so well...

There is still NO WAY the "mark" is going to be some sneaky squirrel operation in which people will be duped into getting it.

Click to expand...

Deception doesn't have to be "sneaky" to still be deception. And, people will only be deceived because they allow themselves to be deceived.

You can't understand the spirit behind the prophesy without referring back to the whole reason why prophecy exists in the first place; Jesus. (Rev 19: ...the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus).

The Mark prophecy says that people will not be able to buy or sell without it. It's a system of control. If you want to feed your family, you must take the Mark. If you want to continue getting paid for your work, pay your bills etc, you must take the Mark.

This system has been around for thousands of years, slowly developing. It's now reached the point where the majority of the world honestly believes they cannot live without money.

That is the deception. People will take the Mark because they've stopped believing in a world of sharing where people work for one another just because they want to. That system is called the Kingdom of Heaven, and it's exactly what Jesus taught.

He said that we cannot work for God and money at the same time without cheating on one or the other. He told us to consider the birds and flowers precisely because they do not work for money, and yet God is still able to take care of them. He said that all the pagans of the world run after these material things, and that we should not be like them. He said our new job is to seek God's kingdom first, as his employees, and as the employer, he will take care of us.

Things like bar codes and microchips in phones, smart cards, etc are not the Mark of the beast, because we can still buy/sell without those things. BUT, they ARE stepping stones in that direction. The more dependent we are on these things, the more difficult it will be for us to accept THE actual Mark when it does eventually come.

We need to be taking steps NOW to detach ourselves from the systems of the world, where people are taught to live in fear. This fear causes them to force others to pay them for their help. Even in situations where people would like to help one another just for the sake of helping one another, they still do not, because they are afraid of what may happen to them if they don't work for money.

That is NOT the kingdom of Heaven. It is the foundation of the Mark of the Beast.

candle glow said:

Things like bar codes and microchips in phones, smart cards, etc are not the Mark of the beast, because we can still buy/sell without those things.

Click to expand...

That's a pretty well reasoned argument CG. But I still disagree. A barcode or an RFID chip could easily be the mark of the beast. And could easily stop one from buying/selling.

1) You make a purchase
2) you provide cash or a card
3) you get your rfid or barcode scanned to prove you're who you say you are making the purchase.

If any of the above is missing, the purchase doesn't go through. You're forbidden to buy.

In this scenario they're used exactly like a bio marker (EG a fingerprint or retina scan). In fact a bio-marker could serve the exact same function in buying/selling. But the bible says there's going to be a 'mark'. So I think there's going to be a 'mark'.

One reason for going rfid over fingerprint or retina scan - Cost!. Retina scanners and fingerprint readers are expensive and tricky to install. An rfid reader is basically a simple radio receiver. With scale, you could build them into computer monitors or laptops or phones for pennies for home use. They could be everywhere, even in very poor communities.

candle glow said:

We need to be taking steps NOW to detach ourselves from the systems of the world

Click to expand...

Jesus said to be in the world but not of it. You seem to be advocating that we shouldn't be in the world at all?

Peace,

-CS

Hi Sea, thanks for your response. Hmm, I think you are right, that bar codes and smart card chips do still have the potential to be the Mark. However, looking at the progression of banking technology throughout the years (as well as what the prophecy says about the Mark being "in" or "on" the hand/forehead), it's looking more and more likely that an implantable microchip will almost certainly be the format through which the prophecy is fulfilled.

Jesus said to be in the world but not of it. You seem to be advocating that we shouldn't be in the world at all?

Click to expand...

I think it probably depends on what each of us means by "in the world" and "of the world". It's likely that we have different perspectives on what these phrases mean in practical terms.

We have "the world" and we have "the kingdom of Heaven". They are two different systems which operate on opposing values. For example, the world has a system of "buying and selling" where people only help each other if they can get something of at least equal, or preferably greater value in return.

But the kingdom of have is different. In that system, people help each other just because they want to, as an expression of God's love for all of us. We share with one another rather than forcing payment from one another.

Jesus taught this same principle by saying that we cannot work for God and mammon (money and the things money can buy) at the same time without cheating on one or the other. Any time that we give to working for love is time that we spend cheating on the world's system of wages. Any time that we spend working for the world's system of wages is time that we spend cheating on God's system of sharing.

We can be in the world, but we should not be of the world. In other words, our job is to live by the values of our kingdom while living in this foreign worldly system.

This is the answer to the Mark. At the moment, Christians can live by the values of a foreign system while still claiming to represent the kingdom of Heaven. They've become confused and for now, it appears that God is allowing this confusion to persist, perhaps to sort out who is sincere enough in seeking after him to sort through the confusion.

But a time is coming when God will make everyone choose. Although the prophecy says that the Mark will be caused by the AC, it's still God who allows him to do it. The Mark represents a final dividing line as to which kingdom people really belong. For those who believe in the values of this world, they will take the Mark so that they may continue buying and selling.

For those who belong to the Kingdom, they will refuse the Mark and instead learn to follow the Holy spirit.

candle glow said:

it's looking more and more likely that an implantable microchip will almost certainly be the format through which the prophecy is fulfilled.

Click to expand...

An RFID chip IS an implantable microchip! And as time goes on they'll only get more powerful and capable.

candle glow said:

But the kingdom of have is different. In that system, people help each other just because they want to, as an expression of God's love for all of us. We share with one another rather than forcing payment from one another.

Click to expand...

Communal living is great. It was practiced by many 1st century Christians, but not all. It's been practiced by many, at times thru the years. Communal communities still have the problem of having to interface with the outside world. I can't think of an example where they were entirely self-sustained. The individuals might not have to buy and sell for themselves, but the group has to!

A Christian Seastead would be a GREAT idea though for a communal Christian community. Not only could you have everything in common but you could be your own nation. But, I think, you'd still have to interface with all the other nations...

Peace,

-CS

Communal living is great. It was practiced by many 1st century Christians, but not all.

Click to expand...

You are right; not all will choose to live the way Jesus and his followers lived back in the day. However, that should not stop the rest of us from trying to follow his example. ^.^

Communal communities still have the problem of having to interface with the outside world.

Click to expand...

Yeah that's true, though I don't think I ever said that as Christians, we cannot "interface" with the world. Our new job, as Christians, is to show the the people of this world a better example than what the world has to offer them. That is where our "interfacing" comes in. If we offer them a testimony (i.e. working for wages) the same as what they are already getting from the system of this world, then our interfacing becomes pointless.

I can't think of an example where they were entirely self-sustained. The individuals might not have to buy and sell for themselves, but the group has to!

Click to expand...

I think there is still some confusion here. I am not advocating that people be self-sustaining. I am suggesting that we apply Jesus' teachings about working for God vs working for money, and using our time to share with one another rather than demanding payment for our time.

I am not saying that we cannot use money, but only suggesting that working for the purpose of getting more of it is contrary to the spirit of working for love. This is the spirit behind the Mark of the Beast. The AC will use money as a tool to distract people from the values of Heaven. People have become convinced that they cannot live without forcing other people to pay them for their help. The AC will use the Mark to exploit that fear.

what communal living are you in ?
its been mentioned before that your in such a set up .. which one?

what communal living are you in ?
its been mentioned before that your in such a set up .. which one?

candle glow said:

Christian Seasteader said:

Communal communities still have the problem of having to interface with the outside world.​

Click to expand...

​

Yeah that's true, though I don't think I ever said that as Christians, we cannot "interface" with the world. Our new job, as Christians, is to show the the people of this world a better example than what the world has to offer them. That is where our "interfacing" comes in. If we offer them a testimony (i.e. working for wages) the same as what they are already getting from the system of this world, then our interfacing becomes pointless.

Click to expand...

You seem to be imagining a money-free system. I just don't see the world getting away from money any time soon. And as long as there is money, you've got what you need for the Mark of the Beast.

candle glow said:

We need more cowbell

Click to expand...

True that!

In fact, the world is moving closer and closer to money to the point that people honestly believe that we cannot survive without it, as if we've never lived without money in all of human history. If you tell someone you don't have a fixed income, or that you don't work for money, their first question is often: "how do you survive?".

Like Candle said, that is how people will be/already are deceived. We've been taught since we were children that in order to keep our physical bodies alive we need money. Of course God didn't set it up that way, it doesn't say anywhere in Genesis that on a certain day God created money with which to purchase His creation.

I don't think it's evil to use money, but when our motivation for what we do becomes money, it's a problem. And when we begin to fear living without money, we begin to worship it and see it as the Provider instead of God. It's a tricky relationship (God and Money), and I wish it didn't exist, but it does. So I think the best thing is to be faithful with the money we do have and use it to the glory of God, at the same time we make sure that whatever job we're doing, we're not doing it for the money. If we're honest enough, it may even cause us to quit our jobs or take a job which pays almost nothing in order to work for God.

You seem to be imagining a money-free system. I just don't see the world getting away from money any time soon. And as long as there is money, you've got what you need for the Mark of the Beast.

Click to expand...

No, I am not imagining anything in particular. I am referring to actual biblical principles. Did you see the verses I used to substantiate my points? Jesus DID actually talk about working for God vs working for money, and that principle does heavily relate to the spirit behind the prophecy of the Mark, where people will no longer be able to buy or sell without the Mark.

I'm not clear on how you came to the conclusion that I've imagined these biblical principles, as though they do not exist. Can you please clarify what you mean? Thanks.

[quotee]I don't think it's evil to use money, but when our motivation for what we do becomes money, it's a problem. And when we begin to fear living without money, we begin to worship it and see it as the Provider instead of God.[/quote]

Exactly!!!

candle glow said:

No, I am not imagining anything in particular. I am referring to actual biblical principles. Did you see the verses I used to substantiate my points? Jesus DID actually talk about working for God vs working for money, and that principle does heavily relate to the spirit behind the prophecy of the Mark, where people will no longer be able to buy or sell without the Mark.

Click to expand...

I guess I am confused CG. If the Mark is not something physical like a chip or barcode, what is it? Give me a concrete example of how a transaction with your Mark might work?

candle glow said:

I think there is still some confusion here. I am not advocating that people be self-sustaining. I am suggesting that we apply Jesus' teachings about working for God vs working for money, and using our time to share with one another rather than demanding payment for our time.

I am not saying that we cannot use money, but only suggesting that working for the purpose of getting more of it is contrary to the spirit of working for love. This is the spirit behind the Mark of the Beast.

Click to expand...

I just don't get it CG. I think you must have some premises to your logic that I just don't get? I think the Mark of the beast is a physical thing that everyone will be tagged with. On the physical right hand or forehead. I don't think that's a metaphor. I don't think the manner in which we conduct work or transactions or volunteering has anything to do with it. That's how I read the scripture in this case.

Peace

-CS

You'll need to go back over CG's posts, CS. He's definitely not saying that the mark of the beast is a metaphor.

Hmmm. Ok so there is still confusion. I'll try to clarify. I said earlier that I think the Mark will most likely be an implantable microchip. I definitely think it will be a physical manifestation.

The spiritual LESSON behind the Mark relates to buying and selling. The whole purpose of the Mark is a system of control. The AC (anti Christ) will use it to lever people away from faith in God.

The AC has no interest in money except in how he can use it to turn people away from God. Most of the people in the world have come to believe that they cannot live without money. How convenient for the AC, right?

So he engineers a situation where people can no longer buy or sell without showing loyalty to his system (i.e. taking the microchip). There won't even be any need for people to know that they are showing loyalty to the AC, because the lesson behind the Mark isn't even about loyalty to God vs loyalty to the devil.

In Matthew 6:24, Jesus talks about two masters. He says one is God and the other is mammon (money and the things money can buy). God wants us to examine our motives for why we act and to change if our actions are inconsistent with the values of his kingdom.

Working for love is consistent with the values of Heaven. Forcing people to pay us for our help is NOT consistent with the values of Heaven. People who are learning to trust God's direction and to work for love, NOW, will have far fewer problems resisting the Mark than people who believe there is no problem with a system where people believe that they would die without money. Can you see the difference?

candle glow said:

Working for love is consistent with the values of Heaven. Forcing people to pay us for our help is NOT consistent with the values of Heaven. People who are learning to trust God's direction and to work for love, NOW, will have far fewer problems resisting the Mark than people who believe there is no problem with a system where people believe that they would die without money. Can you see the difference?

Click to expand...

I think so. I think we were having 2 different discussions. I hadn't even gotten around the discussion of how to live in the MOTB era.

I think we're in basic agreement about what the Mark might be. Some folks here don't seem to accept even that so I hadn't even considered discussing it further.

Peace,

-CS

The "mark of the beast" is only a symbolic term that has nothing to do with chips in human hands or their foreheads.

Click to expand...

I notice you've not addressed the issue of buying and selling as being the stated purpose of the Mark.

Also, you've not addressed concerns about the "evolution" of the Mark throughout history. Money was invented in the form of gold coins, and then changed to coins of lesser value like silver, bronze etc, and then changed to paper currency, and then to credit cards, on to smart cards, internet banking, phone banking and eventually they will take the microchip off the cards, out of the phones/computers and put them in the body itself.

How coincidental that world banking technology is moving to a system where people will use a "mark" in their body to buy/sell. At some point we must ask ourselves why people stubbornly refuse to address the issue of buying and selling. Could it possibly have something to do with the insidious nature of the root of all evil?