Is the law part of the gospel?

[HARK!]

God placed a ritual law

You made that up. YHWH never mentioned ritual law.

 

[visionary]

Opinions opinions. The real truth is that God placed a ritual law among nine laws dealing with morality. The Sabbath was a shadow, Jesus is reality. Come unto me and I will give you rest, something Israel never entered into.

God engraved it in stone, and Jeremiah told of the day when it will be implanted in the heart.

 

[klutedavid]

Wow! You'll try to find any loophole you can.

Who is Paul talking to here?

Excerpt: Paul on the Law: 1 Corinthians 9

8 Not according to man am I speaking these things. Or is the law not also saying these things?

According to who then?

The what? The law? What law?

9 For in the law of Moses it is written: "You shall not muzzle the threshing ox.Not for oxen is the care of God!"

So Paul is quoting YHWH's authoritative word?

Where did he get this, in a vision after Yahshua ascended?

(CLV) Dt 25:4
You shall not muzzle a bull when it threshes.

The TORAH?!?

10 Or is He undoubtedly saying it because of us? Because of us, for it was written that the plower ought to be plowing in expectation, and the thresher to partake of his expectation."

Wait! What's this? Paul is not only quoting of the 613; but he's applying it in a way that is deeper than what is actually written.

HE'S SAYING THAT THE TORAH WAS WRITTEN BECAUSE OF US?

We actually have to listen to YHWH's Torah?!? Where is he getting this? Was it written on his heart?

I will use your quotation.

Dt 25:4
You shall not muzzle a bull when it threshes.

Obviously God was not talking about muzzling the bull.

So this method of interpretation that Paul employs by disregarding the literal reading. Opens up the law to a non literal interpretation.

 

[klutedavid]

Opinions opinions. The real truth is that God placed a ritual law among nine laws dealing with morality. The Sabbath was a shadow, Jesus is reality. Come unto me and I will give you rest, something Israel never entered into.

In fact, the entire law and the prophets was a shadow for Christ to fulfill.

 

[HARK!]

Obviously God was not talking about muzzling the bull.

Yes he was.

So this method of interpretation that Paul employs by disregarding the literal reading. Opens up the law to a non literal interpretation.

The Two Great Commandments are a summary of the Decalogue. The Decalogue is a summary of the 613. The 613 are a summary of what YHWH has written on your heart.

There is nothing in the 613 that specifically says that I can't take an ATV and do burnouts on my neighbors lawn; but a prohibition is written on my heart; and the second greatest commandment is a second witness.

If you can't see this; perhaps you aren't seeking diligently enough.

 

[HARK!]

In fact, the entire law and the prophets was a shadow for Christ to fulfill.

It all hasn't been fulfilled.

 

[klutedavid]

Yes he was.

God was not really talking about muzzling the bull. That is the literal meaning.

1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?

Your wrong on this point.

The Two Great Commandments are a summary of the Decalogue. The Decalogue is a summary of the 613. The 613 are a summary of what YHWH has written on your heart.

There is nothing in the 613 that specifically says that I can't take an ATV and do burnouts on my neighbors lawn; but a prohibition is written on my heart; and the second greatest commandment is a second witness.

Gentiles were never under the law and the Jews could not obey the law. All the law does is hold a mirror to your face, so that you can see your inability to obey it.

If you can't see this; perhaps you aren't seeking diligently enough.

I think I see clearly enough.

 

[klutedavid]

It all hasn't been fulfilled.

Of course Jesus fulfilled both the law and the prophets.

If one letter of the law passes then the entire law passes with it.

The law has changed since the priesthood changed.

Jesus is the great high priest not Aaron's descendants.

Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.

You cannot see the change in the law can you?

 

[HARK!]

Of course Jesus fulfilled both the law and the prophets.

When did this happen?

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left fof all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

If one letter of the law passes then the entire law passes with it.

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.
(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

When did heaven or earth pass by?

The law has changed since the priesthood changed.

The high Priesthood was transferred. The Levitical Priesthood is still in place. I've covered this with you before.

(CLV) Hb 7:12
For, the priesthood being transferred, of necessity there is coming to be a transference of law also,

G3331 WITH+PLACing, after-PLACing, transference

(CLV) Jer 33:20
Thus says Yahweh: If you could annul My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night so that daytime and night fail to come about in their proper time,

(CLV) Jer 33:21
then also My covenant could be annulled with David My servant, so that he should not come to have a son reigning on his throne, and that with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.

Again:

(CLV) Hb 7:12
For, the priesthood being transferred, of necessity there is coming to be a transference of law also,

G3331 WITH+PLACing, after-PLACing, transference

You really should use a literal translation. Those biased translations will lead you astray.

 

[HARK!]

Gentiles were never under the law and the Jews could not obey the law. All the law does is hold a mirror to your face, so that you can see your inability to obey it.

Excerpt from: UNDER THE LAW!

"Under the law"

Paul is the only one in the Bible who uses this phrase.

It's found 11 times in his writings.

Romans 3:19
(CLV) Ro 3:19
Now we are aware that, whatever the law is saying, it is speaking to those under the law, that every mouth may be barred, and the entire world may become subject to the just verdict of God,

Let's look at this very carefully. The law speaks to those under the law.

The law speaks so that every mouth in the entire world may become subject to YHWH's judgement.

As all are subject to YHWH's verdict; it appears that we have two groups here. One group is already subject to YHWH's judgement. The other would not be subject to YHWH's judgement in absence of his Torah.

The preceding verse serves to further define the behavior of those who are under the law:

(CLV) Ro 3:18
There is not fear of God in front of their eyes.

Why would we fear our loving Abba?

(CLV) Ex 20:20
Then Moses said to the people: Do not fear, for in order to probe you the One, Elohim has come, and in order that the fear of Him should come over your faces, that you may not sin.

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

 

[BobRyan]

Gal 1:6-9 corresponds with Gal 3

True. They both point to the gospel and the fact that there is "only one" -- the same one preached to Abraham. Unchanged. And Paul goes out of his way to curse anyone that would dare think to change it in Gal 1:6-9

That one Gospel states that the saved by grace through faith -- "Gospel" is the way that Abraham was saved and every human since then - who is saved - was saved that same way.

The law for the unbeliver serves the purpose of exposing them as sinners and in need of salvation.
The law for the believer is "Written on heart and mind" under the one-and-only "New Covenant".

 

[BobRyan]

Opinions opinions. The real truth is that God placed a ritual law among nine laws

Now there is an interesting opinion.

 

[BobRyan]

Christians are not under the law because Jesus brought the law to an end at Calvary. "It is finished".

turns out... it is still "a sin" to take God's name in vain.

So it is that John reports "sin IS transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4.

1 Cor 6 is proof that the law remains -- as is Eph 6:1-2. I think we all saw that earlier

 

[Bob S]

It all hasn't been fulfilled.

Jesus said that is what He came to do, so I would presume you don't believe the words of our Savior.

 

[BobRyan]

It all hasn't been fulfilled.

Romans 13 - we too are to "fulfill the law" - when it comes to moral law of God like the Ten C - you are supposed to comply with it rather than live in rebellion against it. That's why Paul says "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the Law" Rom 3:31

 

[Bob S]

The Glory of the New Covenant The following verses fully explain that Christians are not under the mandate of the ten commandments, Those who preach that we are are teaching a false gospel.

7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. 8 Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? 9 If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! 10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. 11 So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!

 

[Cribstyl]

You made that up. YHWH never mentioned ritual law.

No he did not make that up. Official Jewish sources say this: "Shabbat is the most important ritual observance in Judaism. It is the only ritual observance instituted in the Ten Commandments." Judaism 101: Shabbat 2nd chapter.

 

[Cribstyl]

Romans 13 - we too are to "fulfill the law" - when it comes to moral law of God like the Ten C - you are supposed to comply with it rather than live in rebellion against it. That's why Paul says "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the Law" Rom 3:31

Here we go again with your customary handling of the scriptures. Why the partial quote? Here's what Rom 13 really says.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
How come you did not mention 'love'? Your commentary contradicts the fact that we're called to love rather than being under the ten commandments.
Your Rom 3:31 intention is also your customary handling of the word. Paul's statement in verse 31 is reinforcing what he concluded here in verse 28. You're taking advantage of a grey area.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Truth will expose deception

 

[klutedavid]

When did this happen?

I said that Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets. To which you replied by asking when did this happen.

When Luke said it happened.

Luke 21:22
Because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.

Luke 24:44
Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

You may have missed what was being fulfilled. If you read the text carefully you will discover that Jesus actually said. That all things concerning Himself in the law and the prophets will be fulfilled.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

When did heaven or earth pass by?

You have misunderstood that verse. The law is in place, even the smallest letter of the law, until the end of the world or unless all is accomplished.

If all is accomplished means that Jesus accomplished all the things necessary, to fulfill the law. Then the law has passed before heaven and earth pass.

If even one sacrificial law has passed then the whole law is annulled.

 

[klutedavid]

The high Priesthood was transferred. The Levitical Priesthood is still in place. I've covered this with you before.

(CLV) Hb 7:12
For, the priesthood being transferred, of necessity there is coming to be a transference of law also

The translation of the Koine Greek word, 'metathesis', G3331, can be translated using one of three words in English.

Strong's G3331, change (1x), translation (1x), removing (1x).

It is also possible to use the word, 'transfer'.

Using the word, 'transference', would be a very poor attempt at translating Strong's G3331.

The NASB is a more accurate translation of Hebrews 7:12 than the CLV, because 'transfer' is the word not 'transference'.