Is the law part of the gospel?

[Cribstyl]

Does the gospel require me to teach Sabbath and the law to unbelievers?

 

[Soyeong]

The main goal of a disciple was to learn how to think and act like their rabbi, or essentially to become a copy of them. So when Jesus kept the law perfectly because he was sinless and he taught how to understand and keep the law, such as in Matthew 5, his disciples would have been learning to think and act like him by following his example. Keeping the law was very important to Jesus and he said nothing about doing away with it, but rather he said:

Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So Jesus' life lived as an example of how to keep the law would have been included in the Great Commision:

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

We should likewise become disciples of Messiah and model our lives after how he thought and acted and then go make our own disciples and teach them how to think and act like Jesus by our own example. I hope to one day be able to say the same words of Paul:

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be like me, for I am like Messiah.

The Gospel message is essentially that we can be made righteous, which isn't just referring to the justification of being declared righteous by God's righteous Spirit being within us, but is also the sanctification of being transformed into having the righteous behavior and character of Messiah through the working of His Spirit.

 

[Cribstyl]

The main goal of a disciple was to learn how to think and act like their rabbi, or essentially become a copy of them. So when Jesus kept the law perfectly because he was sinless and he taught how to understand and keep the law, such as in Matthew 5, his disciples would have been learning to think and act like him by following his example. Keeping the law was very important to Jesus and he said nothing about doing away with it, but rather he said:

Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So Jesus' life lived as an example of how to keep the law would have been included in the Great Commision:

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

We should likewise become disciples of Messiah and model our lives after how he thought and acted and then go make our own disciples and teach them how to think and act like Jesus by our own example. I hope to one day be able to say the same words of Paul:

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be like me, for I am like Messiah.

The Gospel message is essentially that we can be made righteous, which isn't just referring to the justification of being declared righteous by God's righteous Spirit being within us, but is also the sanctification of being transformed into having the righteous behavior and character of Messiah through the working of His Spirit.

So you're saying that Jesus and Paul said: "Do as I do" not "do as I say."

 

[Steeno7]

The main goal of a disciple was to learn how to think and act like their rabbi, or essentially to become a copy of them. So when Jesus kept the law perfectly because he was sinless and he taught how to understand and keep the law, such as in Matthew 5, his disciples would have been learning to think and act like him by following his example. Keeping the law was very important to Jesus and he said nothing about doing away with it, but rather he said:

Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So Jesus' life lived as an example of how to keep the law would have been included in the Great Commision:

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

We should likewise become disciples of Messiah and model our lives after how he thought and acted and then go make our own disciples and teach them how to think and act like Jesus by our own example. I hope to one day be able to say the same words of Paul:

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be like me, for I am like Messiah.

The Gospel message is essentially that we can be made righteous, which isn't just referring to the justification of being declared righteous by God's righteous Spirit being within us, but is also the sanctification of being transformed into having the righteous behavior and character of Messiah through the working of His Spirit.

Except that isn't the example of Jesus life. How Jesus lived was in complete dependence upon God the Father. Jesus did nothing of His own initiative. Repeatedly He explained the source of what He did. "The Son can do nothing of Himself; ...the Father shows the Son all things that He Himself is doing" (John 5:19,20). "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge..." (John 5:30). "I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself has given Me...what to say, and what to speak" (John 12:49). "The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works" (John 14:10). As a man Jesus was totally dependent upon God the Father and receptive to the activity that His indwelling Father desired to express through Him.

In the same way that Jesus lived in dependence upon God the Father, now we are to live in total dependency upon Him. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

 

[Soyeong]

So you're saying that Jesus and Paul said: "Do as I do" not "do as I say."

Nope, I think what they said to do also lined up with their actions. They taught both by word and example.

 

[Soyeong]

Except that isn't the example of Jesus life. How Jesus lived was in complete dependence upon God the Father. Jesus did nothing of His own initiative. Repeatedly He explained the source of what He did. "The Son can do nothing of Himself; ...the Father shows the Son all things that He Himself is doing" (John 5:19,20). "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge..." (John 5:30). "I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself has given Me...what to say, and what to speak" (John 12:49). "The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works" (John 14:10). As a man Jesus was totally dependent upon God the Father and receptive to the activity that His indwelling Father desired to express through Him.

In the same way that Jesus lived in dependence upon God the Father, now we are to live in total dependency upon Him. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

Christ's perfect obedience to God was an expression of his complete dependence on Him. True faith expresses itself in action.

 

[Steeno7]

All true, but Christ's perfect obedience to God when an expression of his complete dependence on Him.

His entire life was the expression of His complete dependence upon God the Father.

 

[Steeno7]

Christ's perfect obedience to God was an expression of his complete dependence on Him. True faith expresses itself in action.

True faith receives the activity of God.

 

[Soyeong]

His entire life was the expression of His complete dependence upon God the Father.

Agreed, so if we want to know what it looks like to live a life in complete dependence to God, then we should look no farther than Jesus' life, and model our thoughts and behavior after him.

True faith receives the activity of God.

Indeed, and the activity of God is to do those good works which He has commanded in the law.

 

[Steeno7]

Agreed, so if we want to know what it looks like to live a life in complete dependence to God, then we should look no farther than Jesus' life, and model our thoughts and behavior after him.

Indeed, and the activity of God is to do those good works which He has commanded in the law.

No. If we want to live as Jesus did, we will live as Jesus did. And how He lived was in complete dependence upon God, in the same way we now live in complete dependence upon Him, God the Son. And how that looks will be unique to each one of us. The activity of God is His activity, Him working in and through we who are living in dependent faith in Him.

 

[Cribstyl]

Christ's perfect obedience to God was an expression of his complete dependence on Him. True faith expresses itself in action.

I'd prefer if you'd answer the OP, by speaking on whether the law is part of the Gospel.

 

[Soyeong]

No. If we want to live as Jesus did, we will live as Jesus did. And how He lived was in complete dependence upon God, in the same way we now live in complete dependence upon Him, God the Son. And how that looks will be unique to each one of us.

Jesus lived gave instructions to Moses for how to practice righteousness:

Deuteronomy 6:25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.”

Jesus' perfect obedience to all this law was likewise his righteousness. The point of sanctification is to transform us into having the righteousness of Messiah. Practicing righteousness is not about everyone doing something that is unique to each of us, but rather it is surrendering to the will of God and living in obedience to what He has instructed. Faith and love both express themselves not as you doing what is right in your own eyes, but in living on obedience to God. There is no sanctification without obedience just like there is no being like Messiah without obeying the same set of instructions he obeyed. Being completely dependent on God can't be separated from being in obedience to God.

 

[Steeno7]

Jesus lived gave instructions to Moses for how to practice righteousness:

Deuteronomy 6:25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.”

Jesus' perfect obedience to all this law was likewise his righteousness. The point of sanctification is to transform us into having the righteousness of Messiah. Practicing righteousness is not about everyone doing something that is unique to each of us, but rather it is surrendering to the will of God and living in obedience to what He has instructed. Faith and love both express themselves not as you doing what is right in your own eyes, but in living on obedience to God. There is no sanctification without obedience just like there is no being like Messiah without obeying the same set of instructions he obeyed. Being completely dependent on God can't be separated from being in obedience to God.

Blah, blah, blah. Jesus the man didn't need that Law to live the way He lived. He needed God. A man living in complete dependence upon God has no need for the Law. I guess we can put you in the "law is part of the gospel" category, eh?

 

[Soyeong]

Blah, blah, blah. Jesus the man didn't need that Law to live the way He lived. He needed God. A man living in complete dependence upon God has no need for the Law. I guess we can put you in the "law is part of the gospel" category, eh?

A man living in complete dependence on God has no need for the law because their dependence on God is already leading them to exceed what the law requires. The law is not made for the righteous, but for the unrighteous (1 Timothy 1:9).

 

[Steeno7]

A man living in complete dependence on God has no need for the law because their dependence on God is already leading them to exceed what the law requires. The law is not made for the righteous, but for the unrighteous (1 Timothy 1:9).

Hey, you're starting to get it. There is no need for the Law because we are being led by Christ, who we are living in dependence upon. The righteous are those who live by faith.

 

[Soyeong]

Hey, you're starting to get it. There is no need for the Law because we are being led by Christ, who we are living in dependence upon. The righteous are those who live by faith.

We are being led by Christ to exceed the requirements of the law in the same way that he was dependent on God. The righteous are those who live by faith and those who live by faith express it by doing good works in accordance with the law.

 

[Steeno7]

We are being led by Christ to exceed the requirements of the law in the same way that he was dependent on God. The righteous are those who live by faith and those who live by faith express it by doing good works in accordance with the law.

LOL. You just have to keep inserting "you" into it dontcha?

 

[Soyeong]

LOL. You just have to keep inserting "you" into it dontcha?

It is God's Spirit that enables us to do good works. We are saved by grace through faith, not by doing good works, but for the purpose of doing them.

 

[Steeno7]

It is God's Spirit that enables us to do good works. We are saved by grace through faith, not by doing good works, but for the purpose of doing them.

Where you are inserting "You" into it, is the very point where you should be stepping out.

 

[Soyeong]

Where you are inserting "You" into it, is the very point where you should be stepping out.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

What I am saying is perfectly in line with these verses. Those who are in Messiah do good works/practice righteousness.