I am asking you within the words of the text....Gregor Mendel never knew anything about DNA, since it is a modern discovery.
Are you claiming Mendel knew nothing about genetics?
Did you pay attention during High School Biology class, or did your teacher skip the unit on genetics?
Do you look like your mother, or father, in any way?
G1076
γενεαλογία
genealogia
ghen-eh-al-og-ee'-ah
From the same as G1075; tracing by generations, that is, “genealogy”: - genealogy.
Total KJV occurrences: 2
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No; the earth and the holy Land will continue forever.Right, so The current land of Israel is not an everlasting possession then.
It will be REPLACED with a new one.
I am asking you within the words of the text....
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All Israel is not Israel
All Israel shall be saved.
Who is "All Israel" talking about?
It seems to me it is talkng about the Jews.
"Jews" based on what criteria, though (is maybe the better question)?I am asking you within the words of the text....
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All Israel is not Israel
All Israel shall be saved.
Who is "All Israel" talking about?
It seems to me it is talkng about the Jews.
@BaBerean2If you think Romans 11 is only about the Jews you must have cut the word Gentiles out of the passage, and you are ignoring the fact that the letter was addressed to a mainly Gentile church.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. (That would be Jews)
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree:
(That would be Gentiles)
how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
(That would be Jews)
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(See Luke 21:24-28, to see when the times of the Gentiles comes to fullness.)
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The English word "so" above is translated from the Greek word "houto", which is an adverb of manner, instead of an adverb of timing.
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It only makes sense that "of the Jews" all Israel is not Israel - because most of the Jews have not embraced the gospel of salvation but remain in Judaism.
Then during the great tribulation. the Jews embrace the gospel en-masse and are saved.
Hello, the old made new...is still the same place, territory etc but New...Right, so The current land of Israel is not an everlasting possession then.
It will be REPLACED with a new one.
Hello, the old made new...is still the same place, territory etc but New...
Luke 21:24-28 proves my position, not yours.Your "only makes sense" is based on ignoring Luke 21:24-28.
The passage is talking about them who inherit the Kingdom of God - by likening the gentiles as being wild olive trees to Jews as being likened to cultured olive trees. It is not defining who is Israel or not.Your High School Biology teacher must have also skipped the chapter on grafting trees.
Hello,Please show scripture that specifically states the nation of Israel, under the old covenant, was kicked off of the land because Jesus had not yet come to the land in order to substantiate your claim.
We can show that you are simply incorrect as Scripture is very clear that Israel was kicked off the land due to their disobedience to the Law of Moses:
Nehemiah 1:8 Remember, I pray, the word that You commanded Your servant Moses when You said, ‘If you are unfaithful, I will scatter you among the nations.
Daniel 9:11 All Israel has transgressed Your law and turned away, refusing to obey Your voice; so the oath and the curse written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, has been poured out on us because we have sinned against You.
Deuteronomy 28:15 But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you
My statement of "faith in Christ did not come while the nation of Israel was held captive to the Old covenant" is the same as your statement "that Faith did not manifested until Jesus of Nazareth".
We are in agreement, so I'm not sure how my statement is "very sad and untrue" because that would make your statement "very sad and not true", as well as Paul's statement in Galatians 3:23:
Galatians 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
Not fair? The potter has every right to make one vessel for special use while others for common.
Who are you say what's fair and what's not?
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
I'm not arguing that God's elect didn't have faith in him for salvation through the mystery that would later be made manifested through Christ.
I agree that they did.
The point was that faith in Christ did not come/was not manifested while the nation of Israel was captive under the Law. The elect of the nation of Israel kept their faith in God that He would provide salvation for them, even if they didn't fully understand how. While the non-elect would either forsake the law (Israel sent into Exile by Babylon and Assyria) or depend on the works law for righteousness and justification (example: Pharisees, saducees).
Abraham recognized that he was a stranger and exile on the land, for he was looking for a HEAVENLY country
Hebrews 11:13-16 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the land. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
God told the nation of Israel that they were strangers and sojourners, even in the land.
Leviticus 25:23 The land shall not be sold in perpetuity, for the land is mine. For you are strangers and sojourners with me
King David, who lived in the land of promise, states that he and all of Israel were FOREIGNERS AND SOJOURNERS just as ALL OUR FOREFATHERS were.
1 Chronicles 29:15 For we are foreigners and sojourners in Your presence, as were all our forefathers. Our days on earth are like a shadow, without hope.
Hello,That is not what the Bible says below.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev_21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
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It is not defining who is Israel or not.
Good, you understand and appear to even agree with the point I made then, that promises or moral issues that are prior and after the law are not affected by the initiation or removal of the Law.
For example, the promises made to Adam, Noah, Abraham, and David are not affected by the initiation or removal of the Law.
Not loving God or your neighbor is wrong whether the Law is present or removed.
However, the nation if Israel was never unconditionally promised the physical land of Israel as an eternal possession. Israel was only given the land as a possession CONDITIONALLY under the old covenant.
Only Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their offspring, who is Christ, were promised the land unconditionally.
Right, because the promises to David are not a part of the Old covenant. The presence or absence of the old covenant does not affect the promises made to David, Just as the absence or presence of the old covenant does not affect the promises made to Abraham.
If the promise of land restoration to the nation of Israel, after the curses had been poured out, was not found in the Law, I would say you have a point.
However, we can clearly see that the promise of land restoration is found IN THE LAW OF MOSES. Thus any prophecy of land restoration, while the nation of Israel is under the old covenant, is rooted in the Law of moses.
Deuteronomy 30:1-5 And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the LORD your God has driven you, and return to the LORD your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your soul, then the LORD your God will restore your fortunes and have mercy on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there he will take you. And the LORD your God will bring you into the land that your fathers possessed, that you may possess it. And he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.
Jeremiah confirms that this promise, found in the law of moses, would be fulfilled following the Babylonian exile, in which the nation of israel was still UNDER THE OLD COVENANT.
Jeremiah 29:10 “For thus says the LORD: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the LORD, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.
Did Israel return to the land under the old covenant, after the curses had been poured out, thus fulfilling Deuteronomy 30:1-5? YES
Ezra 2:1 Now these were the people of the province who came up out of the captivity of those exiles whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried captive to Babylonia.
Ezra 8:1 These are the heads of their fathers’ houses, and this is the genealogy of those who went up with me from Babylonia, in the reign of Artaxerxes the king:
Psalm 85:1 LORD, you were favorable to your land; you restored the fortunes of Jacob.
Do you believe David will literally be Israel's prince forever or does it point to Jesus?
Ezekiel 37:25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.
Jews have lived in land of Israel for the last 2,000 years. 1948 fulfills prophecy because the world now recognizes it as a country?
There is not one prophecy that mentions a 2nd exile followed by a 2nd regathering to the land. So not sure which of these prophesies 1948 actually fulfills.
Which promises of the old covenant were unconditional?
Why would Peter have expected it to be imminent? Would it because Jesus said "this generation will not pass away before all these things happen" ?
Peter's argument is that God lives outside of time, thus a 1000 years like a day AND a day a like a 1000 years, not that it will be thousands of years until Christ comes.
and yet you cannot explain why Paul, Peter, James, and John all talked about the end being at hand.
IF you mean Israel, as in those who are in Christ, then I agree.
You believe 2,000 year old apostles are walking around right now?
But it was not until 1948 that they once again became an independent nation.
Those passages in Romans 11 are saying things about Israel. It is not defining Israel.Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
In Romans 11 Paul reveals two different groups of Israelites, one faithful, and one not during the time of Elijah.
Paul said the same was true during his time in verse 5.
This agrees perfectly with Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27.
Did God consider the Baal worshipers a part of Israel?
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
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When the times of the gentiles ends, all the Jews living in that era will turn to Jesus. Specifically, during the great tribulation.
Based on the words of Christ found below, the "times of the Gentiles" are fulfilled at the Second Coming of Christ.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
and you're right is because of their disobedient...
The question is can they be obedient to God on their own will??? Apart from faith...
So, if the land is belong to God then when He comes back will any other nations can kicked them out (the people of Israel)?
Do you believe He will return to this land and live there with His people forever? Or Not?
The eternal promises made to David were made to him after the initiation of the law.
As for the law itself, Jesus did not come to remove the law but to fulfill the law. (Mt. 5:17-18)
Love is the foundation of the law. When we love God and our neighbor, we put the law into practice. (Mt. 22:37-40)
The promise of restoration did not apply to just the Babylonian exile. It applies anytime that Israel disobeys and turns from God and then repents after a period of chastisement.
Have you not read where the Apostle Paul stated that if they did not continue to abide in unbelief that they would be restored again? (Rom. 11:23) This also includes restoration to their land.
It will be as the passage states. David will be the prince of Israel, but Jesus will be the King of Israel from where He will rule the world, though some will say that David is another title for Jesus, although there is not much scriptural support for this. The New Testament scriptures never call Jesus David. But notice that when these things come to pass, the Jews will already be back in the land that was given to them and in which Messiah will be their King and from where He will rule the earth.
There is a reason why God has retained a Jewish presence in the land even after their rejection of Christ and as a result, judgment which they suffered at the hands of the Romans. But it was not until 1948 that they once again became an independent nation. Ever since they were subjugated by the Roman empire, the Jews had not been under independent rule. After the Romans ruled them, they were subjugated by the Arabs, then the Turks, and after that, the British until they were granted independent status and officially recognized as a nation once more.
I did explain it to you. You already put forth your rebuttal to it in the above. Granted all the Apostles believed that the end was drawing near, but they did not know the day nor the hour, nor did they attempt to set a date. While there is no denying that God is outside of time, Peter’s argument had nothing to specifically do with that. It was in relation to the return of our Lord in the sense that although the Lord’s return may seem long in coming, it is not so in the sense that we would count as being long in coming.
In the case of the Apostle John, based upon what Jesus said concerning him, (Jn. 21:21-23) it cannot be ruled out. After all, Jesus has not yet returned and He is not above retaining a few chosen representatives of that generation in this life in order to fulfill all that He has spoken even if they be kept hidden away until the time comes for them to be revealed.
Other than the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans, that generation amongst whom Jesus walked, as far as history is concerned, never saw all come to pass what Jesus said would come to pass and neither have we for that matter.
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