Is the Earth Flat?

[BeyondET]

There is no globe earth (there are only people who believe there is) so there is no need to even consider any verse from the Bible as applying to a globe earth.

People even had to change up one verse in the Bible to even have a hit at a globe earth. But the verse translated the way it is, is not supported from any other part of the Bible (Tanakh or New Testament).

How does Revelation 18:1 expose that the earth is not a globe but it is flat?


After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory.

 

[d taylor]

How does Revelation 18:1 expose that the earth is not a globe but it is flat?


After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory.

Again this goes back to earth and that earth in the Bible does not mean a water covered sphere with areas of land scattered around this water sphere.

Earth in The Bible means land, originally in Genesis one piece of land. But after the flood (Genesis 6) this land was broken up.

So the angle and his glory are illuminating the earth as it is now after the flood broken up scattered continents and as this states, the earth, not a part of the earth. So to illuminate the earth, the earth needs to be able to be illuminated by this angels light, which can not happen if the earth/land is scattered around a sphere. So some area of earth/land would be in shadow on a globe earth.

 

[d taylor]

How does Revelation 18:1 expose that the earth is not a globe but it is flat?


After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory.

look at Revelation 20:9 it even states breadth of the earth. Breadth comes from πλάτος (platos)
breadth (1), broad plain (1), width (2).

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

 

[Lost4words]

Captain Kirk is going into space in a few days time, courtesy of Bezos.

Another nail in the coffin for flat earth believers!

Captain Kirk: Bezos' Blue Origin to send William Shatner into space

 

[BeyondET]

look at Revelation 20:9 it even states breadth of the earth. Breadth comes from πλάτος (platos)
breadth (1), broad plain (1), width (2).

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Breadth of earth is the wide broad plains, it is spoken in Habakkuk also and other places.

Hab 1:6
For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans—that ruthless and impetuous nation which marches through the breadth of the earth to seize dwellings not their own.

 

[BeyondET]

So the angle and his glory are illuminating the earth as it is now after the flood broken up scattered continents and as this states, the earth, not a part of the earth. So to illuminate the earth, the earth needs to be able to be illuminated by this angels light, which can not happen if the earth/land is scattered around a sphere. So area earth/land would be in shadow.

the angel is given authority to illuminate the world, which God can illuminate the whole universe at once if He so chooses.

 

[coffee4u]

Again this goes back to earth and that earth in the Bible does not mean a water covered sphere with areas of land scattered around this water sphere.

Earth in The Bible means land, originally in Genesis one piece of land. But after the flood (Genesis 6) this land was broken up.

So the angle and his glory are illuminating the earth as it is now after the flood broken up scattered continents and as this states, the earth, not a part of the earth. So to illuminate the earth, the earth needs to be able to be illuminated by this angels light, which can not happen if the earth/land is scattered around a sphere. So area earth/land would be in shadow.

It doesn't bother me what you want to believe d taylor, but those kind of verses do not convince me one way or the other. But you can't base a teaching of a flat earth on a verse talking about illumination. After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory.

It seems for you the whole earth being illuminated at once is an issue unless it is flat.
It's fine if that is how you want to read that but you need to understand others do not read it that way and you need much more supporting scripture. I have asked before and have not seen any to be convincing.

The way I see it the illumination has nothing to do with the shape of the land.
A natural light indeed would have areas in deep shadow on anything but a flat area but I don't see this as natural light but as supernatural. The supernatural is not limited by the natural law of things. Because it is supernatural I believe it goes into all places. Into the deepest caves, behind mountains and all around the potato. The same way every eye shall see the Lords return, even if they are asleep or down a basement. There seeing Jesus won't be contingent on them being awake and outside or in front of a window. Every eye shall see no matter what. I see this angels light the same way. That the entire earth is being illuminated no matter what shape it is.

 

[d taylor]

No but i just keep pointing out that time and time again, in all areas of the Bible without having to use assumptions, adjustments as to etc.. to make The Bible creation descriptions. Work with a globe, a lot of, what if's, maybe's have to be used to make God's creation out to be a moving water globe.

But a flat stationary earth can believe with descriptions given in The Bible as is, without any what if's or adjustments needed.

Joshua commanded to sun and moon to stop moving, God created two great lights (sun and moon), The stars of heaven will fall to earth like figs dropping from a tree, A star guided the wise men and stood over were the young child was, the sun returned ten degrees for Hezekiah's promise,

In The Bible the sun, moon and stars move they are created lights, to give light upon the earth.

How easy would it have been for God to at least, accurately describe His creation. If it had been as science states a spinning water globe out in space.

But no creationist have had to be mighty creative to make The Bible and science creation gee-haw.

Below is from a page of a website i am not even sure what these people believe, they may even be atheist/evolutionist , But they point out how creationist bend over backwards trying to make the Bible fit science globe earth.

Cretinism or Evilution?: Henry Morris Denies Geocentrism​

 

[BeyondET]

No but i just keep pointing out that time and time again, in all areas of the Bible without having to use assumptions, adjustments as to etc.. to make The Bible creation descriptions. Work with a globe, a lot of, what if's, maybe's have to be used to make God's creation out to be a moving water globe.

But a flat stationary earth can believe with descriptions given in The Bible as is, without any what if's or adjustments needed.

Joshua commanded to sun and moon to stop moving, God created two great lights (sun and moon), The stars of heaven will fall to earth like figs dropping from a tree, A star guided the wise men and stood over were the young child was, the sun returned ten degrees for Hezekiah's promise,

In The Bible the sun, moon and stars move they are created lights, to give light upon the earth.

How easy would it have been for God to at least, accurately describe His creation. If it had been as science states a spinning water globe out in space.

But no creationist have had to be mighty creative to make The Bible and science creation gee-haw.

Below is from a page of a website i am not even sure what these people believe, they may even be atheist/evolutionist , But they point out how creationist bend over backwards trying to make the Bible fit science globe earth.

Cretinism or Evilution?: Henry Morris Denies Geocentrism​

you got to adjust a whole lot for a flat earth to work, the north and south poles stay cold and have mostly 6 months of light and 6 months of night.. the equator has constant 12 hours of daylight and 12 hour of no daylight, everywhere else on earth is different as you move away from the equator.

even travelling east to west the sun raises at different times because sun light is moving across a globe not a flat earth. the sunlight would illuminate the whole earth at once if it was flat.

 

[coffee4u]

No but i just keep pointing out that time and time again, in all areas of the Bible without having to use assumptions, adjustments as to etc.. to make The Bible creation descriptions. Work with a globe, a lot of, what if's, maybe's have to be used to make God's creation out to be a moving water globe.

But that's the point I don't make adjustments. I'm a literalist where the text is meant to be read plainly. The text says very clearly that God created in 6 days so I don't know how people get around that and none of those arguments for evolution make a lick of sense in regards to what scripture says. I couldn't care less what science says on that. Which i assume you are aware since you have no doubt seen my posts on the creation area.
I don't care what shape the world is, perhaps I am one of the few people on here who don't.

But a flat stationary earth can believe with descriptions given in The Bible as is, without any what if's or adjustments needed.

Again I don't see this.
I see flat areas talked about, just as I see mountains and valley areas talked about. None of these makes me think of an entire flat world or an entire mountain shaped world.
I see symbolism and I see poetry, what I don't see is any plain teaching on how the entire world is a flat disk like every flat earth picture I have seen. If the world is flat or if we needed to know its overall shape at all, God would have stated so plainly.

Joshua commanded to sun and moon to stop moving, God created two great lights (sun and moon), The stars of heaven will fall to earth like figs dropping from a tree, A star guided the wise men and stood over were the young child was, the sun returned ten degrees for Hezekiah's promise,

Joshua 10:12-13
12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself ona its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

Is a fascinating piece of scripture. My guess is it could have entire thread dedicated to just discussing it. But it is still not a plain teaching where God says that the world is a flat disk. Joshua is speaking not God and we have no idea what he understood. The ancients understanding of things, such as why they had hygiene laws or the rain cycle or if the sun or earth were the ones moving were not important.
You could say that this shows what Joshua believed. He believed it was the sun and moon that stopped. This doesn't mean what he believed was accurate. If God didn't explain germs to them he wasn't about to stop Joshua and explain about planetary orbits. They didn't have to understand the details, only trust and obey God, and to them it appeared as if the sun and moon had stopped. Maybe they did, or maybe everything stopped.

We can both agree a miracle occurred and things stopped for a full day.
You view it as confirmation of a flat world because this is what you have already decided upon and to you this is further confirmation. I get that, I just don't think you have any solid plain teaching that you are basing this belief on. If God can say "Do not steal" he can also say "The world is a flat disk" but he doesn't, so I say the jury is out but even plain observation and what I have seen leans more towards the earth being 'round' so I will continue to assume it is.

 

[d taylor]

But that's the point I don't make adjustments. I'm a literalist where the text is meant to be read plainly. The text says very clearly that God created in 6 days so I don't know how people get around that and none of those arguments for evolution make a lick of sense in regards to what scripture says. I couldn't care less what science says on that. Which i assume you are aware since you have no doubt seen my posts on the creation area.
I don't care what shape the world is, perhaps I am one of the few people on here who don't.


Again I don't see this.
I see flat areas talked about, just as I see mountains and valley areas talked about. None of these makes me think of an entire flat world or an entire mountain shaped world.
I see symbolism and I see poetry, what I don't see is any plain teaching on how the entire world is a flat disk like every flat earth picture I have seen. If the world is flat or if we needed to know its overall shape at all, God would have stated so plainly.



Joshua 10:12-13
12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself ona its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

Is a fascinating piece of scripture. My guess is it could have entire thread dedicated to just discussing it. But it is still not a plain teaching where God says that the world is a flat disk. Joshua is speaking not God and we have no idea what he understood. The ancients understanding of things, such as why they had hygiene laws or the rain cycle or if the sun or earth were the ones moving were not important.
You could say that this shows what Joshua believed. He believed it was the sun and moon that stopped. This doesn't mean what he believed was accurate. If God didn't explain germs to them he wasn't about to stop Joshua and explain about planetary orbits. They didn't have to understand the details, only trust and obey God, and to them it appeared as if the sun and moon had stopped. Maybe they did, or maybe everything stopped.

We can both agree a miracle occurred and things stopped for a full day.
You view it as confirmation of a flat world because this is what you have already decided upon and to you this is further confirmation. I get that, I just don't think you have any solid plain teaching that you are basing this belief on. If God can say "Do not steal" he can also say "The world is a flat disk" but he doesn't, so I say the jury is out but even plain observation and what I have seen leans more towards the earth being 'round' so I will continue to assume it is.

I care about the shape of God's creation because He cared enough to give His creation a specific shape. So if what God created mattered to Him as a believer God's creation matters to me.

As i learn about God, i want all i believe about God and His creation to be true. I do not want to one day possibly after death, to have to say, i believed a lie over The Bible and its descriptions given about the creation, even in light of mans almost air tight testimony that on the surface seems the truth.

There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.

 

[chad kincham]

The flat earth isn’t an important issue at all, as long as you don’t fall off the edge.

 

[d taylor]

you got to adjust a whole lot for a flat earth to work, the north and south poles stay cold and have mostly 6 months of light and 6 months of night.. the equator has constant 12 hours of daylight and 12 hour of no daylight, everywhere else on earth is different as you move away from the equator.

even travelling east to west the sun raises at different times because sun light is moving across a globe not a flat earth. the sunlight would illuminate the whole earth at once if it was flat.

I do not have to adjust anything as it is (a flat stationary earth) fits more of The Bible descriptions about God's creation than a spinning water sphere out in an outer space. Where the sun moon and stars are stated to be 100"s of thousand to million, billion to trillions of miles/light years apart, scattered out in a vacuum of space.

Genesis 1 easily dismisses this foolishness where God states He separated the waters from waters, with the creation of a raqia. Where God states He placed the sun, moon and stars in this raqia between the two bodies of water the raqia is separating.

Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

Then God said, “Let there be lights in the raqia (dome) of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the raqia (dome) of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the raqia (dome) of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

 

[chad kincham]

It's not flat yet, but it is deflating.

I’ve heard it said that it’s only flat on the bottom, or maybe that’s for flat tires...

 

[chad kincham]

I am not the one misrepresenting the creation account given in the Bible by saying in one of your choices. "planets/stars are actually illusions/objects in the dome."

I look at as if you were really interested in conducting an honest pole representing actual Biblical descriptions. You would have used the actual way the Bible states God created His creation.

It's flat, domed, and God placed in the raqia the sun, moon and stars to give light on the earth.

But no you used illusions/objects, so really what does that mean, but just a lack of respect for the Bibles descriptive account.

So you can say i am here just to argue, but i am not the one misrepresenting the creation account in the Bible.

The flat earth scenario cannot explain how half the earth is having winter, with longer nights and shorter days in each 24 hour period, while the other half of the earth is having summer, with shorter nights and longer days - simultaneously - but a round spinning globe with a 23 degree tilt in its axis, can explain that fact.

Now on to hurricanes.

Hurricanes rotate only because the round earth spins on its axis. Otherwise high winds would blow straight.

Hurricanes always rotate in one direction in the northern hemisphere, and always rotate the opposite direction in the Southern Hemisphere - just as you’d expect to happen on a rotating globe..

To understand this effect , get a globe map of the earth - you know - one of those round balls that turn on an axis, and have a friend turn it clockwise while you look down at it while standing over it - then lay down on the floor and look up at it - now it’s turning counter-clockwise to you, and clockwise to your friend, simultaneously(at the same time).

These facts refute the flat earth scenario.

The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat, nor demand a geocentric belief for salvation, anyway.

Maranatha

 

[chad kincham]

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Except stars are angels in the Bible:

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Those stars above are generally considered to be the fallen angels.

Maranatha

 

[coffee4u]

I care about the shape of God's creation because He cared enough to give His creation a specific shape. So if what God created mattered to Him as a believer God's creation matters to me.

As i learn about God, i want all i believe about God and His creation to be true. I do not want to one day possibly after death, to have to say, i believed a lie over The Bible and its descriptions given about the creation, even in light of mans almost air tight testimony that on the surface seems the truth.

There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.

Obviously the creation has a shape but God did not give us a verse saying "The earth is a flat disk" it is nowhere to be found.
Creation on the other hand is plainly said to be 6 days. That is the difference. One is plainly said the other is not.

I do believe what the Bible says and there simply isn't a verse like that to be found. If there were I would believe it, but there isn't. Also if there were a verse saying "The earth is a flat disk" I am sure you would have shown it to me by now but you can't because there isn't.

So we both believe the Bible but have drawn different conclusions. One day we will know the truth of the matter but to me the shape of the earth is very low on my priorities.

 

[d taylor]

Obviously the creation has a shape but God did not give us a verse saying "The earth is a flat disk" it is nowhere to be found.
Creation on the other hand is plainly said to be 6 days. That is the difference. One is plainly said the other is not.

I do believe what the Bible says and there simply isn't a verse like that to be found. If there were I would believe it, but there isn't. Also if there were a verse saying "The earth is a flat disk" I am sure you would have shown it to me by now but you can't because there isn't.

So we both believe the Bible but have drawn different conclusions. One day we will know the truth of the matter but to me the shape of the earth is very low on my priorities.

God gave this verse stating the earth (land) is a circle or circular in shape. And again one needs to understand earth in The Bible does not mean planet, earth means land.

It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

 

[BeyondET]

I do not have to adjust anything as it is (a flat stationary earth) fits more of The Bible descriptions about God's creation than a spinning water sphere out in an outer space. Where the sun moon and stars are stated to be 100"s of thousand to million, billion to trillions of miles/light years apart, scattered out in a vacuum of space.

Genesis 1 easily dismisses this foolishness where God states He separated the waters from waters, with the creation of a raqia. Where God states He placed the sun, moon and stars in this raqia between the two bodies of water the raqia is separating.

Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

Then God said, “Let there be lights in the raqia (dome) of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the raqia (dome) of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the raqia (dome) of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

flat earth models cannot answers those basic answers of the changing daylight hours across the globe and the equator being constant 12 and 12. interesting enough there are only models of earth being flat, no flat earthier has ever took a picture or video of flat earth.

a solid dome is contradicting an open expanse that the bible statements.

 

[d taylor]

flat earth models cannot answers those basic answers of the changing daylight hours across the globe and the equator being constant 12 and 12. interesting enough there are only models of earth being flat, no flat earthier has ever took a picture or video of flat earth.

a solid dome is contradicting an open expanse that the bible statements.

I will ask you a question. So science states that the moon is a sphere made out of rock, far out in space and is lit by the suns light.

So that means the moon is always in the full moon phase. So when we see a full moon the light is really bright (not as bright as the sun but still really bright)

Photo example

​

So as can be seen in the photo examples above
the full moon emits light all around the entire circular edge.

But that full circular lighted edge is not present when the moon is in a crescent moon phase but it should be. Because as i stated, according to science the moon is always in a full moon phase.

So where is the missing light from the full moon that is on the other side of this crescent moon photo below. As bright as a full moon is, surely the light all around the moon would easily be seen as it is just on the other side of this crescent moon. But no light is seen
​

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