Futurist Only Is the Daniel 7 Little Horn Apollyon?

[tranquil]

Oh but yes they are in parallel. Christ's Olivet discourse proves it, because that is where He first gave the 7 Signs of the end leading up to His return, which is what the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are about. There are only 7 main Signs that He gave. And His servants were to understand those Signs given in His Olivet discourse first. This is why the 7th trumpet, 7th vial, and 6th seal parallel each other.

I think you should develop this thought a little better if I am going to have something to discuss with you. This doesn't prove anything.

When the "last day" is coupled with the subject of the resurrection (John 6), it's impossible to apply that to any other time than the actual final day of this present world, which is when the resurrection is to occur.

Could you to give me a verse please? I have no idea what point you are making. There is at least one example of a symbolic resurrection off the top of my head: Ezekiel 37:7-14. Are these literal zombies rising up? No, of course not it is a metaphor.

I guess you just weren't payin' attention. I mentioned the connection with the "little horn" of the Book of Daniel with the Antichrist in Rev.13 who blasphemes God, a repeat of the latter Daniel 8 verses.

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention! Daniel 7's little horn is the blasphemer (Daniel 7:8), not the Daniel 8 little horn.

That's numerology. You can't get a reliable understanding from God's Word playing that kind game.

Counting to two is numerology?

didn't you notice in Daniel 7:9-11 about the thrones being cast down showing the judgement of the Antichrist, meaning Christ returns in the time of that "little horn".

I did notice.

Well, I guess you have an attention disorder then, because starting about Dan.8:15 the historical fulfillment of what I showed was explained there to Daniel by the Archangel Gabriel. Might want to read the actual Scripture again.

ok

2 And I saw in the vision; and when I saw, I was in Susa the citadel, which is in the province of Elam. And I saw in the vision, and I was at the Ulai canal. 3 I raised my eyes and saw, and behold, a ram standing on the bank of the canal. It had two horns, and both horns were high, but one was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, “For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?” 14 And he said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”

17So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”

26The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.” 27 And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days. Then I rose and went about the king’s business, but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it.
​

How many 'visions' is he seeing?

The 'vision' is in relation to the 2300 days. Alexander the Great reigned 336- 323 BC. 2300 years later puts us at a range of 1964- 1977. If the 'sanctuary being restored' is the taking of Jerusalem in 1967, who was the antichrist little horn?

The whole vision is for the latter days. The 'vision' starts with the 2 horned ram becoming great. Then the goat with the notable horn ( the Daniel 7 little horn) defeats Russia / Iran , the 2 horned ram. Then the Daniel 8 little horn emerges from one of the 4 fragments of the goat kingdom.

If you don't get the distinction between past & future fulfillment, not much else to discuss.

 

[DavidPT]

The order of the Seals follows Christ's Olivet discourse. The first Sign He gave was to not allow any man to deceive us. That parallels the false rider on the white horse in Rev.6, which represents the coming false-Christ at the end, but he doesn't actually appear until a later Seal, which also follows the pattern in Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24:23-26 which is tribulation time. The key to it all is close parallel study of the 7 Signs in Christ's Olivet discourse with the Seals. Once that is understood, then it all begins to fall into place.

The 42 month reign in Rev.13 parallels the time in Rev.11 when the Gentiles tread the holy city for 42 months. What timing are we shown with that? It's on the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period that started in Rev.9:12 (Rev.10 is parenthetical). The last 3 trumpets each have a Woe attached to them revealing those are the times our Lord especially wants us to be aware of and watching. It covers the time just prior to the "great tribulation" and then into it, all the way up to Jesus' 2nd coming on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe.

So the time of the last 3 trumpets cover the very end. The previous trumpets are in prep for the great tribulation.

As to this part, unless I'm misunderstanding you somewhere here, and I don't think I am, this indicates you and I are pretty much on the same page here. I see it pretty much the same, if not exactly the same.

Yet in Rev.16 with the 6th Vial we have this...

Rev 16:12-14
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
KJV

... which parallels this...

Rev 9:12-15
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, 'Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.'

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
KJV

That represents the start of the time of "great tribulation" at the very end, i.e., Paul's time of "Peace and safety" the deceived will be saying.

So the actual time of the 'stinging' of Rev.9 happens with that 6th trumpet.

What you submitted here does appear to support what you have been proposing, yet this still misses the point I was making, though. The first trumpet clearly precedes the 5th and 6th trumpet. And if the first trumpet and the first vial run in parallel, and that the first vial is being poured out on those that are worshiping the beast, how can that be, especially in light of what all you just said in the parts where I indicated I pretty much agreed with you about? When the first vial is being poured out, it cannot be being poured out until and unless someone already has the mark of the beast, and that they are already worshiping his image, when it is being poured out.

Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.


I tend to think that it is maybe during the 7th trumpet when the 7 vials of wrath begin being poured out, starting with vial 1. Otherwise how does one explain that there would be vials of wrath being poured out on those with the mark before there even are those with the mark, that assuming the 1st vial parallels the first trumpet?


In general, since I have read many of your posts on this board, for the most part I like your thinking on things. But I don't always agree with everything you are always concluding. But who does agree with everything someone else is concluding, right? Probably no one.

And like I pointed out, while what you submitted here does tend to maybe prove your point about the trumpets and vials running in parallel, there is still the fact that the first trumpet precedes the 5th and 6th trumpet, and that if the 1st trumpet and the first vial run in parallel, this has to mean that what is recorded in Revelation 13 has already been underway when the first trumpet sounds. This has to mean that Revelation 13:14-17 has already been fulfilled before the 1st trumpet even sounds.