Understanding the 'Little Horn' power of Prophecy in Daniel.

[Tigger Boy]

The answer to your first question is no, for this reason. Factual evidence within Dan.7:7, clearly state that the ten horns are on the head of the forth beast, (Rome) not on the head of the little horn. It was out of these ten horns that the little horn rose up and uprooted three horns, and becomes the eighth horn. With this FACT in mind, one can not truthfully claim that the Little horn and the sea beast share this similarity. Are we in agree on this point?

In response to the second question I have previously stated that the only thing that is similar in the descriptive specifications of either beast is the mouth speaking boastfully. Are you comfortable now based on this one specification alone that the LH and the SB are the same entity, while you know the LH rises from the Roman empire, while the SB rises from the sea? Too, I will assume since you are not interested in any diffferences you have no understanding of what the seven heads having blasphemes names written on them, or the ten horns having ten crowns are revealing about the sea beast.

I would appreciate answers to my two questions on my previous post.

 

[Tigger Boy]

Gary k & Reddogs.

I’m disappointed in you both for refusing to dialogue with me any further on the Little Horn of Dan. 7, and the Sea Beast of Rev. 13.

Reddogs, I have read many of your post on various topics and I surmise that you are either a retired minister, or college professor, of the Adventist faith, second or third generation. Since you seem to be well versed in Adventism, and very articulate in explaining your faith.

I can only assume based on my experiences over many years of trying to share my progressive views on apocalyptic prophecy with Adventist pastors, and members ,that you too are feeling threatened because my insights are new, and differ from the insights put forth in The Great Controversy, therefore they must be wrong.

In my many past experiences the actions of those whom I’ve tried to encourage in reconsidering prophecy, is the same action which you and Gary are obvious using, which is not to engage in any dialogue, least you be led outside of your comfort zone.

Let me share a couple of quotes that I’m sure you both have heard in the past but need to hear again at this point in time.

The Three Stages Toward Truth: first , it is vehemently denied. Second, It is deemed somewhat plausible. Third, it is the absolute and undeniable truth.

Of course to progress through the three stages one has to be open minded long enough to understand the new insights. Or one can let their fear stop them in further investigation and remain unawares of progressive truth. The choice is always ours.

“The time for the unfolding of special truth in relation to the closing scenes of this earth’s history is during the last generations that shall live upon the earth”. ST 692-3

The first release of the CG was 144 yrs. ago, seven generation ago. Mrs. White new more light would be forth coming as we got closer to the return of Christ. Will you choose to remain in darkness while the light of truth is moving forward?

Let me end this post with a personal request. Since it is impossible to advance ones knowledge without understanding something new. I ask both of you to prayerfully consider dialoging with me on the subject of the sea beast of Rev. 13, since we are in agreement on the Little Horn of Dan. 7. I think you will be blessed in understanding the correct interpretation of all the descriptive specifications of the Sea Beast, and the world wide events and time which forces it up from the sea.

 

[Gary K]

Gary k & Reddogs.

I’m disappointed in you both for refusing to dialogue with me any further on the Little Horn of Dan. 7, and the Sea Beast of Rev. 13.

Reddogs, I have read many of your post on various topics and I surmise that you are either a retired minister, or college professor, of the Adventist faith, second or third generation. Since you seem to be well versed in Adventism, and very articulate in explaining your faith.

I can only assume based on my experiences over many years of trying to share my progressive views on apocalyptic prophecy with Adventist pastors, and members ,that you too are feeling threatened because my insights are new, and differ from the insights put forth in The Great Controversy, therefore they must be wrong.

In my many past experiences the actions of those whom I’ve tried to encourage in reconsidering prophecy, is the same action which you and Gary are obvious using, which is not to engage in any dialogue, least you be led outside of your comfort zone.

Let me share a couple of quotes that I’m sure you both have heard in the past but need to hear again at this point in time.

The Three Stages Toward Truth: first , it is vehemently denied. Second, It is deemed somewhat plausible. Third, it is the absolute and undeniable truth.

Of course to progress through the three stages one has to be open minded long enough to understand the new insights. Or one can let their fear stop them in further investigation and remain unawares of progressive truth. The choice is always ours.

“The time for the unfolding of special truth in relation to the closing scenes of this earth’s history is during the last generations that shall live upon the earth”. ST 692-3

The first release of the CG was 144 yrs. ago, seven generation ago. Mrs. White new more light would be forth coming as we got closer to the return of Christ. Will you choose to remain in darkness while the light of truth is moving forward?

Let me end this post with a personal request. Since it is impossible to advance ones knowledge without understanding something new. I ask both of you to prayerfully consider dialoging with me on the subject of the sea beast of Rev. 13, since we are in agreement on the Little Horn of Dan. 7. I think you will be blessed in understanding the correct interpretation of all the descriptive specifications of the Sea Beast, and the world wide events and time which forces it up from the sea.

I'm the only one not answering. reddogs has very severe health issues from type one diabetes. Sometimes he doesn't post for weeks or months at a time. So get off your high horse. You refuse to look at similarities in scripture so I feel no need to endlessly wrangle with you to no good end. In fact, I tried to answer you earlier and could not. It's like my heavenly Father refused to allow me to engage with you. So I'm not. Go your own way. Ellen White warned us about people like you who would attempt to destroy the landmarks of our faith.

You might ask yourself why our heavenly Father would do that.

 

[Tigger Boy]

I'm the only one not answering. reddogs has very severe health issues from type one diabetes. Sometimes he doesn't post for weeks or months at a time. So get off your high horse. You refuse to look at similarities in scripture so I feel no need to endlessly wrangle with you to no good end. In fact, I tried to answer you earlier and could not. It's like my heavenly Father refused to allow me to engage with you. So I'm not. Go your own way. Ellen White warned us about people like you who would attempt to destroy the landmarks of our faith.

You might ask yourself why our heavenly Father would do that.

Thanks for the insights on Reddogs. I apologize if I have come across riding a high horse, as that is not my intent. I seems to me you are overly sensitive and very negative toward me, simply because I disagree with the long held interpretation of the sea beast mentioned in this thread. If you were in my sandals believing the Holy Spirit has revealed to you progress insights, would you hide it under a bushel basket? I believe God requires those seeking and receiving new light, to share it. Should we fail in that respect, then He does not give us further light. Isn't that what the parable of the ten talents teach us?

To claim I do not consider similarities in the details about the LH and the SB, is not accurate, I consider all the details and have said that the LH and SB only share one, the boastful mouth. You on the other hand just consider the similarities. In so doing you ignore important details God purposely gives us. They are different simply because the symbol is different. However, if one only considers those that are similar then they will incorrectly identifying the symbol as being the same.

I believe your pride has been hurt because I made you aware in my previous post that the LH does not have ten horn as you thought. But rather It is the forth beast (Rome) which had the ten horns at that time. You have not acknowledge this, which would benefit you if you were to do this, because we learn if we acknowledge our mistakes in order to grow in understanding in the process. Is it not possible that God is using this opportunity to check your humility and willingness to further your understanding of prophecy? I hope you will not choose to allow your pride to hold you hostage?

Please consider the following principals prayerfully.

CW 50, 51; "If a brother differ with you on some points of truth, do not stoop to ridicule, do not place him in a false light, or misconstrue his words, making sport of them, do not misinterpret his words and wrest them of their true meaning. This is not conscientious argument. Do not present him before others as a heretic, when you have not with him investigated his positions, taking the scriptures text by text in the spirit of Christ to show him what is truth. You do not yourself really know the evidence he has for his faith, and you cannot really clearly define your own position... weight every argument that he presents and show him by the scriptures if he is in error. When you do this without unkind feelings you will do only that which is your duty and the duty of every minister of Jesus Christ."

 

[Gary K]

Thanks for the insights on Reddogs. I apologize if I have come across riding a high horse, as that is not my intent. I seems to me you are overly sensitive and very negative toward me, simply because I disagree with the long held interpretation of the sea beast mentioned in this thread. If you were in my sandals believing the Holy Spirit has revealed to you progress insights, would you hide it under a bushel basket? I believe God requires those seeking and receiving new light, to share it. Should we fail in that respect, then He does not give us further light. Isn't that what the parable of the ten talents teach us?

To claim I do not consider similarities in the details about the LH and the SB, is not accurate, I consider all the details and have said that the LH and SB only share one, the boastful mouth. You on the other hand just consider the similarities. In so doing you ignore important details God purposely gives us. They are different simply because the symbol is different. However, if one only considers those that are similar then they will incorrectly identifying the symbol as being the same.

I believe your pride has been hurt because I made you aware in my previous post that the LH does not have ten horn as you thought. But rather It is the forth beast (Rome) which had the ten horns at that time. You have not acknowledge this, which would benefit you if you were to do this, because we learn if we acknowledge our mistakes in order to grow in understanding in the process. Is it not possible that God is using this opportunity to check your humility and willingness to further your understanding of prophecy? I hope you will not choose to allow your pride to hold you hostage?

Please consider the following principals prayerfully.

CW 50, 51; "If a brother differ with you on some points of truth, do not stoop to ridicule, do not place him in a false light, or misconstrue his words, making sport of them, do not misinterpret his words and wrest them of their true meaning. This is not conscientious argument. Do not present him before others as a heretic, when you have not with him investigated his positions, taking the scriptures text by text in the spirit of Christ to show him what is truth. You do not yourself really know the evidence he has for his faith, and you cannot really clearly define your own position... weight every argument that he presents and show him by the scriptures if he is in error. When you do this without unkind feelings you will do only that which is your duty and the duty of every minister of Jesus Christ."

You are a fulfillment of prophecy. Ellen White said one of the final deceptions of the devil would be to make the Spirit of prophecy of none effect. There is no other religious organization that fits the criteria of the papacy and yet you pretend that there is. What other religious organization existed for 1260 years and persecuted those that disagreed with it? You pretend the dark ages never existed,

 

[Tigger Boy]

You are a fulfillment of prophecy. Ellen White said one of the final deceptions of the devil would be to make the Spirit of prophecy of none effect. There is no other religious organization that fits the criteria of the papacy and yet you pretend that there is. What other religious organization existed for 1260 years and persecuted those that disagreed with it? You pretend the dark ages never existed,

Gary, appreciate your willingness to continue our dialog. You state, "There is no other religious organization that fits the criteria of the papacy..." I agree with this much of your statement. As I have repeatedly stated, it is the LH of Dan. 7, that ruled Europe from 538- 1798, 1260 literal years during the dark ages. However, in 1798 it received a deadly wound.

So with this repeated, in answer to your statement, "What other religious organization existed for 1260 years and persecuted those that disagreed with it? My answer is there is none.

You further state, "Yet you pretend that there is". I do not pretend, but use only prophecy which clearly indicates the SB of (Rev. 13: 1-10) is not the same beast as the LH of Daniel 7. Since you believe they are the same can you explain the following symbolism describing the sea beast, having seven heads with blasphemous names, and seven heads with ten horn? It seems to me you are comfortable in ignoring it.

However, Rev. 17:9&10, gives more details with respect to these seven heads. It states the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman (prostitute)sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen (past tense from the time John is given the prophecy, 95AD.) one is , the other has not yet come, but when he does come, he must remain for only a short while.

In reference to the ten kings, vs 12 states, "The ten horns are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. This additional criteria, of which there is more, has to be understood in order to correctly identify it as the LH. Agree or disagree?

I will make an observation to our dialog to this point. I have been basing my respectivies on the Bible only. You claim my perspectives go against our, "landmarks", and Spirit of Prophecy. With regard to, "landmarks" ones understanding of Dan. & Rev. does not qualify. If they did it would be stated in our 27 Fundamental Beliefs and Confession Of Faith. They are not.

As to the Spirit of Prophecy, Mrs. White was adamant that the Bible and the Bible only was to be our standard of faith. That her writings were a lesser light to lead us to the Bible. Are you able to defend your positions on the Bible only?

 

[Tigger Boy]

As to the Spirit of Prophecy, Mrs. White was adamant that the Bible and the Bible only was to be our standard of faith. That her writings were a lesser light to lead us to the Bible. Are you able to defend your positions on the Bible only?

Gary, Two weeks have pasted since I made this request of you, and you have yet to respond. I hope you are giving serious thought as to what your faith is actually based on. Your lack of any Bible based response indicates to us viewers, it is your religion. They are not the same.