Is the age of the Earth worth disputing?

[juvenissun]

It would not make a lot of sense to believe in days longer than normal. Reason is, that the grass and herb and fruit trees were created on day 3, and the sun on day 4. If the plants should wait 7000 years before the sun came to drive the photosynthesis, that would be a long time to wait.

The plants appeared on DAY 3 did not need any "sun"light. There is light in the universe right from DAY 1.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Is it worth discussing? Sure why not. Is it worth arguing over? No. Its not a sin to not know the age of the earth. And when you die Gods not having a final exam with questions like how old the earth is. While we can guess going by various biblical stuff, we have no real answer. Though the reply tends to be "But here is the answer!". Again its just peoples point of view, doesn't mean its true or false or that it really matters.

Though with that said I think its only a couple thousand years old. How do I know this? I don't know it at all. I'm just going by how I interpret the bible. Hence he created everything in a week. So if Adam and Eve were created then we just have to follow how many years its been since then. Though some say maybe 7 days was figurative, not an actual timeline. But I'd disagree simply because while the bible does use parables, this is one of those times where they would not need to use one because the point is made "day" means "Day", 24 hours.

Well, I believe some take the teaching of Young Earth Creationism too far by making a ministry out of it, when that is not what our ministry is really about. Jesus is our ministry. It is Jesus Christ in whom we preach (And not creationism). While this may not be a salvation issue, if one loses their focus on Jesus Christ over defending creationism, then it can be. It is true, that God can use Young Earth ministries, I don't believe it is what God really wants us to do. Nowhere do we see in the Bible where God's people made an entire ministry out of defending the creation of the Earth.

Then there are those who say that Genesis is a myth or a fable or a legend. This is essentially saying that God's Word is a lie and not truth. For a half a lie is still a lie. The Scriptures warn against turning His Word into fables or in going after fables in favor of His Word (2 Timothy 4:4).

The problem with Old Earth Creationism is two fold. One, a person is not reading and believing the text at face value with a normal reading of Genesis. It takes faith to believe God's Word. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17) (Also see the Parable of the Sower). It is difficult for people to think that God created everything in six literal 24 hour days. It is also difficult to be persecuted or laughed at by the world for thinking differently than them, as well. But Hebrews 11 says without faith, it is impossible to please Him. In fact, Hebrews 11 talks about how by faith, we know how the worlds were framed. This flies against everything the world of science would teach us (Which is not based on the faith of God's Word). Two, we are also warned not to add or take away from God's Word. See, when a person reads Genesis and they get millions of years out of the days in the creation account, they are not reading and believing Genesis at face value, but they are adding something in God's Word that is not there. A person has to eliminate the words morning and the evening in context to a day and then they have to add long periods of time to text that is not there; Or they have to add a large gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. Usually Old Earth Creationists also deny the global flood, as well. They say it was a local flood when in Genesis 8 it says the flood waters covered the highest mountains. Again, somebody has to ignore this part of the Bible in order to make their belief work. God says there is a punishment (that is not good for one's soul) for adding and taking away from His Word. This is what somebody has to do in order to believe in Old Earth Creationism.

There is a person I know. They have not accepted Christ as their Savior. Yet, they argue with me that Genesis is myth and legend. They argue with me that there are two creation accounts in Genesis (with Genesis 1 being one and Genesis 2 being the other). They are not seeking the truth of God's Word but they are seeking their own truth in how they want to see things. That is what Old Earth Creationism is all about. It is trying to conform to the thinking of this world (Which runs contrary to God's Word).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Most Old Earth Creationists believe the following verse is a lie.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Romans 5:12).

Many (and not all) Old Earth Creationists believe that death existed before Adam and Eve had sinned. Yet, Romans 5:12 says death came about by one man's sin whereby death passed upon all men. If there were two creation accounts with death existing, this would be in direct violation to what is taught here in God's Word. On top of that, Luke 3:23-38 gives us the genealogy of Jesus Christ (thru Mary's line) all the way back to Adam (the first man). This means there is only one man and woman within creation that represents mankind. Also, if you were to count this genealogy, you would not get millions of years. Granted, there are Old Earthers who believe the millions of years existed before Adam and Eve came onto the scene. But the point is that God's Word has to be ignored or changed on some level in order to try to fit worldly science (that comes from atheists) into the Bible.


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[victorinus]

If a Christian believes in his/her heart that God created all things including the universe and time itself, then why is the age of the Earth worth disputing or proving?

they don't know what is not important in the bible

 

[Matthew-three-two]

One resource that has helped me along the lines of harmonizing the scriptures and science has been the work of the Reasons to Believe group. I won't provide a link because I don't want to appear like I am advertising, but you can do a search and find it easily. They are Old Earth Creationists (believing, in this case, that the creation event took place with the Big Bang about 14.5 billion years ago and earth's creation about 4.5 billion years ago) and they have even gone so far as to create their own scientific model and challenge other scientists of any stripe (atheists, agnostics, believers) to compare their RTB model (as they call it) with other scientific theories. And they are very up-front about the fact that their RTB model for creation and science is based on the words of Scripture. It is a very bold move, and since no-one on this thread has pointed it out, I thought that it is something that people should be aware of.

I have put together some summaries about this for a men's group that I am part of, and in the men's group and in my family there are people of the Young Earth Creationist persuasion (believing that the creation event occurred a few thousand years ago). The perspective that I have on this is that this may fall under the admonition of Paul to the Romans (14:5-6,13).

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God…. 13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.

That passage may be relevant here because so often there has been dissension in the church recently about the orthodox way to view Genesis and science. But in point of fact, the purpose of the Gospel is faith in Christ and the unity of His body, and so whatever ones belief in how to interpret Genesis then my attitude is to just accept that as their personal conviction and love them as members of Christ's church.

That being said, as someone who has spent a lot of time in academia and the world of science and engineering, it becomes very difficult to be able to discuss science with other scientists in the world if one holds to a Young Earth Creationist viewpoint. One of the members of my group faces this as his daughter is thinking about pursuing a Ph.D. in geophysics. She is a strong believer, but knows that her faith is challenged by how she hears the events of the distant past being described in her classroom. I identify with her and that is the reason that the RTB folks have been such an inspiration to me. They help me to be able to share my faith with unbelievers in a way that has credibility in the scientific world, to which many in today's society give great credence (and rightly so in many ways IMO, given the great advances in medicine and so forth from science). It has even come to the point where findings of cosmologists, who study the history of the universe from a scientific perspective, have come to conclusion, whether they like it or not, that we live in a highly improbable situation in the universe, that has every appearance of design. The step of faith is who we believe the designer is. And with the RTB model, a pretty good case can be made that "the Bible got it right", as the RTB people are fond of saying. So this can be a great help in discussing this issue of science and creation with non-believers.

One last thought that I would like to share is that the Young Earth Creationist model has been the most commonly taught model in western civilization, especially in the Protestant and Evangelical churches, for the past several hundred years. And for many, in order to defend Christianity against a godless evolutionary perspective, the Young Earth Creationist perspective has often become a test of faith. I understand this response because in thinking through all of this, I realized that if I had to choose between my faith and the perspective of science then I would choose my faith as well. There is so much more hope there and my experience with the Lord leads me to accept that as the only true way for my life. But with the RTB model, I do not have to make that choice between the two, thankfully, and it is a great blessing for me to have become acquainted with it. I am still working on wrapping my mind around this new perspective of Old Earth Creationism and saying the word "evolution" and not feeling that I am being untrue to my faith. But in the long run, I believe that this will become the perspective that prevails in the Christian church. The Catholic church has no problem with this (the Big Bang theory in fact was first proposed by a Catholic priest). As the Protestant and Evangelical church realizes that it does not compromise their belief in the Scriptures as inerrant, then I believe that they will embrace this perspective as well (I could be wrong about this, but this is the way that it seems to me). It will take time, though, because Old Earth Creationism is definitely a different way to think about things and brings up its own questions and changes in attitude. That will take time, and until it all works out according to the Lord's timing and will, I have decided personally to be as gentle and tolerant and kind about other believers perspective on science and creation as possible. The important thing is our common faith in Jesus as the Messiah, Savior and Lord and our love of Him and of one another.

 

[TurtleAnne]

Well from 2 Peter..

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Sometimes I see people quoting scriptures which they take to mean are God condemning the pursuit of (science), or something along those lines. Such as in 1 Corinthians:

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

To me personally, though, it doesn't seem to be a matter of condemning one while sparing the other (faith vs science), but rather just about prioritizing them appropriately. For example while people of ancient times were not as scientifically advanced as we are today, they did understand some of the basics of science itself. There is a reason they were amazed at a virgin birth; they knew that pregnancy required sex, even if they didn't have microscopes to see the eggs in an ovary and so on. There actually needed to be an understanding of some science in order to be able to recognize a miracle.

To me what chapters like 1 Corinthians are about, is understanding that while science is useful for our mortal existence and while philosophical debate is an important part of relating to each other as humans, there is yet another level of understanding that is more important though difficult for humans to grasp.

I bet it is no coincidence that certain things such as psychedelic mushrooms have been outlawed with severe federal penalties. A heavy 'trip' gives one firsthand experience of how the concept of time can be suspended, and how one can experience everything has existing and happening without the concept. There is a definite spiritual element to it, but the field of science was quick to abolish/outlaw it, rather than seek to understand it.

Just saying.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well from 2 Peter..

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Sometimes I see people quoting scriptures which they take to mean are God condemning the pursuit of (science), or something along those lines. Such as in 1 Corinthians:

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

To me personally, though, it doesn't seem to be a matter of condemning one while sparing the other (faith vs science), but rather just about prioritizing them appropriately. For example while people of ancient times were not as scientifically advanced as we are today, they did understand some of the basics of science itself. There is a reason they were amazed at a virgin birth; they knew that pregnancy required sex, even if they didn't have microscopes to see the eggs in an ovary and so on. There actually needed to be an understanding of some science in order to be able to recognize a miracle.

To me what chapters like 1 Corinthians are about, is understanding that while science is useful for our mortal existence and while philosophical debate is an important part of relating to each other as humans, there is yet another level of understanding that is more important though difficult for humans to grasp.

I bet it is no coincidence that certain things such as psychedelic mushrooms have been outlawed with severe federal penalties. A heavy 'trip' gives one firsthand experience of how the concept of time can be suspended, and how one can experience everything has existing and happening without the concept. There is a definite spiritual element to it, but the field of science was quick to abolish/outlaw it, rather than seek to understand it.

Just saying.

Relevant verses quoted; there's also Hebrews 11: 'By faith we believe that the worlds were framed'.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I don't believe it's worth either discussing or knowing the literal understanding of Genesis. I don't believe the age of the earth is worth knowing from any point of view, religious or otherwise. I believe it's very important to discuss and know the spiritual meaning of Genesis.

 

[GusKlenke]

The age of the earth should make no difference to a person of faith. Yet, we must remember that Satan is prowling around like a lion attempting to twist truth. Jesus seems to endorse a literal interpretation Genesis. He often quotes it and holds up Moses as a true prophet of God. This being the case, if Genesis is wrong then Jesus' credibility is called into question. If you are unwilling to accept the veracity of scripture by faith then Satan gets a foothold. Remember, science and the Bible do not disagree, they simply interpret the world from different world views. A fossil can be dated at billions of years or thousands of years depending on what presuppositions you begin with. Also, most of us have been intimidated by science (and the world) into assuming their worldview must be correct. That being the case we throw up our hands and make claims like the one you have posited above. Please don't assume that science rests solidly on facts while the Bible has no factual support. Science fails to explain vast amounts of what we see and experience every day, yet they rather arrogantly act as if their guesses are proven and settled. I suggest you check out the Genesis Science Network online (or Roku) to see very distinguished scientists make just as strong a factual case for a young earth.

 

[angelkiss]

To God, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day.....To Him, time means nothing. For us, time is so limited that I consider it a waste to worry about how old the earth really is. Regardless of how smart a person is, they can estimate how old the earth and it's contents are, but never "really" know the "exact" age.

 

[jax5434]

The only thing I know for sure is that the earth is at least 63 years old. As to what happened before then I have to rely on the recorded history of others. But if God made the earth to appear billions of years older than what it actually is then is he being deceitful? In which case what else might he be being deceitful about?

 

[bcbsr]

If a Christian believes in his/her heart that God created all things including the universe and time itself, then why is the age of the Earth worth disputing or proving?

I ask this not for a scientific debate, but rather an opinion on how much time we should spend discussing these matters vs what the Bible teaches.

Consider the following scenario:

You have a 500 year old oak tree in your front yard. You love the tree so much, you ask God during a nightly prayer to give you another one exactly like it. The next morning you wake up and peer out the window. Your eyes behold a 2nd oak tree in your front yard exactly like the other one.

If you cut down both tree's, would the new tree have the same amount of rings? Of course, because God made it exactly the same as the first. And somehow, the tree is only hours old.

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My point is, if all the scientific theories and evidence were piled up and miraculously proved the Earth is 500 gazillion years old, would it matter? Would it even change your faith?

The "young earth creationism" arguments largely presume a certain interpretation of the first 2 chapters of Genesis. There's more than one "literal" interpretation of such. For example if those are viewed as a vision given to Moses, and "day" refers to "day" in the prophet's time frame, then each "day" God gave Moses a vision of a different aspect of the creation as one watches a movie, which doesn't speak to the time in "creation days" that these events took place.

Presently to be a young earth creationist you have to believe in junk science, or that God is falsifying evidence as to give a false impression of age. Such seems contrary to Rom 1:20.

Must one reject scientific observations to be a Christian. I say no.

 

[expos4ever]

My point is, if all the scientific theories and evidence were piled up and miraculously proved the Earth is 500 gazillion years old, would it matter? Would it even change your faith?

The problem is that you effectively put God in the position of producing a Universe with the misleading appearance of great age when, by the terms of your argument, it is, in fact, very young.

Do you not see a problem with that?

 

[thesunisout]

I think the age of the Earth is an important issue because it challenges the authority of Gods word. I don't think it is a salvation issue, or a fellowship issue with believers.

2 Peter 3:3-7

First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. “Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.”

But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world of that time perished in the flood. And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men

A sign of the last times is scoffers, and we have more of those today than ever before. What is painful is when you see your brothers and sisters repeating the very same arguments that atheists and agnostics use to tear down Gods word. They have been seduced by the wisdom of the world:

Colossians 2:8

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ

When you are speaking to a brother who believes they can pick and choose what they want to believe from the bible, you know that they are not being led by the Holy Spirit in that area. They are actually in rebellion against Gods authority and have made themselves judges of His word. In that situation, if they won't listen to God chances are they won't listen to you either. If you sense the person isn't open to hearing the truth, pray for them. The only way they will come to a knowledge of the truth is by revelation of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

If a Christian believes in his/her heart that God created all things including the universe and time itself, then why is the age of the Earth worth disputing or proving?

I ask this not for a scientific debate, but rather an opinion on how much time we should spend discussing these matters vs what the Bible teaches.

Consider the following scenario:

You have a 500 year old oak tree in your front yard. You love the tree so much, you ask God during a nightly prayer to give you another one exactly like it. The next morning you wake up and peer out the window. Your eyes behold a 2nd oak tree in your front yard exactly like the other one.

If you cut down both tree's, would the new tree have the same amount of rings? Of course, because God made it exactly the same as the first. And somehow, the tree is only hours old.

---

My point is, if all the scientific theories and evidence were piled up and miraculously proved the Earth is 500 gazillion years old, would it matter? Would it even change your faith?

Since, one's view of age of the earth effects how they read scripture and not the other way around. IMHO, this is a side issue of no importance. The Genesis account of creation is not a science book, nor did it ever claim to be such. We were not there at creation and one uses the best information they can find. Personally, I do not believe in Evolution, nor Creation Theories or models. I think God did it, and that is all I need to know. With non-believers it is better to stick with the gospel because in the end that is the most important topic. Walter Martin once told me personally, the best thing one can tell a cultist or unbeliever is Jesus.

 

[expos4ever]

This argument that to accept an "old earth" effectively denies Biblical inerrancy / authority has a huge hole: it overlooks the rather obvious fact that literary device of all types is clearly present in the scriptures.

No reasonable person would take everything in the scriptures literally.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I don't think believing in the Creation story is essential to your salvation, but do think it is essential for a consistent worldview and knowing that God can do such only strengthens my faith.

I'm an Old Earth Creationist, but I was raised believing the YEC view and the majority of people in my church and denomination adhere to YEC.

I reconcile science with the Creation narrative with the belief that the creation is local in scope, with God preparing the Promised Land as the place of origin for humanity, who, after the fall, migrated to places like Africa early.

Supposedly, Mesopotamia was a much larger region, extending all the way to Ethiopia. After all, the people there speak an Afroasiatic language, which is the same language family as Arabic and Hebrew.

 

[zoidar]

To me it's not important if Earth is 6000 YO, or 5 billion ... What matters to me is not the literal story of the creation in Genesis, but the belief that God created everything, and that sin came into the world through man, why else would we need Jesus?

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

Most Old Earth Creationists believe the following verse is a lie.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Romans 5:12).

Many (and not all) Old Earth Creationists believe that death existed before Adam and Eve had sinned. Yet, Romans 5:12 says death came about by one man's sin whereby death passed upon all men. If there were two creation accounts with death existing, this would be in direct violation to what is taught here in God's Word. On top of that, Luke 3:23-38 gives us the genealogy of Jesus Christ (thru Mary's line) all the way back to Adam (the first man). This means there is only one man and woman within creation that represents mankind. Also, if you were to count this genealogy, you would not get millions of years. Granted, there are Old Earthers who believe the millions of years existed before Adam and Eve came onto the scene. But the point is that God's Word has to be ignored or changed on some level in order to try to fit worldly science (that comes from atheists) into the Bible.


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There is some debate about that among the EOC.

Some will tell you that the death mentioned by God and by Paul is only the spiritual death, and there is no denying we are spiritually dead since the Fall.

Others say Paul is only referring to human death since they are special, and that animal death was a part of nature even before the Fall.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The problem with the Old Earth view is that chances are they are loving the world as a result of their belief. They have a pride or an admiration or strong respect for secular scientists opinions on the age of the Earth. But the Scriptures say we are not to love this world or the things within it. If a man were to do so, the love of the Father is not in them.

In other words, all things become new in Christ. We are to be ye transformed by the renewing of our mind. But sometimes this is harder for people to do when they come to the faith. They still want to hold on to the old ways of this world and it's thinking. Granted, I am not against good science. But good science is observable science and not historical science (of which we cannot prove).


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