Is the age of the Earth worth disputing?

[TravisD]

If a Christian believes in his/her heart that God created all things including the universe and time itself, then why is the age of the Earth worth disputing or proving?

I ask this not for a scientific debate, but rather an opinion on how much time we should spend discussing these matters vs what the Bible teaches.

Consider the following scenario:

You have a 500 year old oak tree in your front yard. You love the tree so much, you ask God during a nightly prayer to give you another one exactly like it. The next morning you wake up and peer out the window. Your eyes behold a 2nd oak tree in your front yard exactly like the other one.

If you cut down both tree's, would the new tree have the same amount of rings? Of course, because God made it exactly the same as the first. And somehow, the tree is only hours old.

---

My point is, if all the scientific theories and evidence were piled up and miraculously proved the Earth is 500 gazillion years old, would it matter? Would it even change your faith?

 

[Colter]

If a Christian believes in his/her heart that God created all things including the universe and time itself, then why is the age of the Earth worth disputing or proving?

I ask this not for a scientific debate, but rather an opinion on how much time we should spend discussing these matters vs what the Bible teaches.

Consider the following scenario:

You have a 500 year old oak tree in your front yard. You love the tree so much, you ask God during a nightly prayer to give you another one exactly like it. The next morning you wake up and peer out the window. Your eyes behold a 2nd oak tree in your front yard exactly like the other one.

If you cut down both tree's, would the new tree have the same amount of rings? Of course, because God made it exactly the same as the first. And somehow, the tree is only hours old.

---

My point is, if all the scientific theories and evidence were piled up and miraculously proved the Earth is 500 gazillion years old, would it matter? Would it even change your faith?

I've never believed in the creation story of Genesis, yet that doesn't effect my faith in God. Science just debunks the superstitious component woven into religion.

 

[TravisD]

I've never believed in the creation story of Genesis, yet that doesn't effect my faith in God. Science just debunks the superstitious component woven into religion.

Thanks for the reply. For me, I think it is absolutely necessary to believe the creation story in Genesis. I cannot let myself become selective in my biblical beliefs. Fortunately, you don't have to be superstitious to believe the creation story of Genesis. You just have to believe God is almighty and can do all things.

 

[Tetra]

Thanks for the reply. For me, I think it is absolutely necessary to believe the creation story in Genesis. I cannot let myself become selective in my biblical beliefs. Fortunately, you don't have to be superstitious to believe the creation story of Genesis. You just have to believe God is almighty and can do all things.

No, God can't do all things, for example He can't do anything that would be against His own nature. An example would be things which are logically impossible (since logic is an extension of God's nature). So He doesn't have the ability to say... make square circles.

If I'm to understand your argument though, you're suggesting God could have made the earth with the appearance of age, such that we'd believe the earth was older than it was. Only problem here, I can't think of a reason as to why He would do that.

 

[archer75]

I don't believe the story in Genesis 1 is "fact". That doesn't mean I don't think it's true.

Edit: So I don't think "proof", whatever that would mean, would affect me either way. Espscially since I'm pretty unable to evaluate anything that would be considered proof.

 

[TravisD]

No, God can't do all things, for example He can't do anything that would be against His own nature. An example would be things which are logically impossible (since logic is an extension of God's nature). So He doesn't have the ability to say... make square circles.

If I'm to understand your argument though, you're suggesting God could have made the earth with the appearance of age, such that we'd believe the earth was older than it was. Only problem here, I can't think of a reason as to why He would do that.

Hi Tetra,

I believe God can do anything within the capacity of our imaginations although there are numerous things he will not do.

I'm not suggesting that God made earth with the appearance of age so much. I'm just saying that all things are possible with God. He created the Earth and then he created day and night. So maybe he created the Earth before he created actual time. If so, the earth is ageless.. or at least as old as time... in any case, it would be virtually impossible to date.

 

[Tetra]

Hi Tetra,

I believe God can do anything within the capacity of our imaginations although there are numerous things he will not do.

I'm not suggesting that God made earth with the appearance of age so much. I'm just saying that all things are possible with God. He created the Earth and then he created day and night. So maybe he created the Earth before he created actual time. If so, the earth is ageless.. or at least as old as time... in any case, it would be virtually impossible to date.

No, God cannot do anything. No disrespect intended, but this thinking is in error... while it's not the best apologetics site, I'd agree with this statement:

"No, God cannot do everything. God is holy and He cannot sin. The Bible tells us He cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18; Titus 1:2). Also, since God is eternal by nature (Psalm 90:2), He cannot stop being God. He cannot deny Himself (2 Tim. 2:13). God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone with evil (James 1:13).

Some critics of Christianity will say that if God is so powerful and He can do anything then He should be able to make a rock so big He can't pick it up. If He could do that, then there would be something He could not do. But such absurd and illogical challenges are meaningless. The truth is that God must be consistent with His own nature, and He cannot violate His own nature."

-https://carm.org/questions/about-god/can-god-do-everything-including-sin​

 

[sdowney717]

No, God cannot do anything. No disrespect intended, but this thinking is in error... while it's not the best apologetics site, I'd agree with this statement:

"No, God cannot do everything. God is holy and He cannot sin. The Bible tells us He cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18; Titus 1:2). Also, since God is eternal by nature (Psalm 90:2), He cannot stop being God. He cannot deny Himself (2 Tim. 2:13). God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone with evil (James 1:13).

Some critics of Christianity will say that if God is so powerful and He can do anything then He should be able to make a rock so big He can't pick it up. If He could do that, then there would be something He could not do. But such absurd and illogical challenges are meaningless. The truth is that God must be consistent with His own nature, and He cannot violate His own nature."

-https://carm.org/questions/about-god/can-god-do-everything-including-sin​

God also can not lie.
For reference
Hebrews 6:17-1921st Century King James Version (KJ21)
17 Thereby God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath,

18 that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we, who have fled for refuge, might have strong consolation to lay hold upon the hope set before us.

19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which entereth into that within the veil,

All scripture is inspired by God, of God and is profitable for doctrine.
Since God cannot lie and all scripture He has inspired men to write point to His glory, the heavens declare His glory, and the earth His handiwork, then the Genesis creation story as God inspired, He has intended us to know as the truth of what happened.

Jesus also tells us the scripture can not be broken, so then it remains the truth..

 

[Colter]

Thanks for the reply. For me, I think it is absolutely necessary to believe the creation story in Genesis. I cannot let myself become selective in my biblical beliefs. Fortunately, you don't have to be superstitious to believe the creation story of Genesis. You just have to believe God is almighty and can do all things.

I think it's God who is perfect not the books used to make the Bible.

 

[TravisD]

No, God cannot do anything. No disrespect intended, but this thinking is in error... while it's not the best apologetics site, I'd agree with this statement:

"No, God cannot do everything. God is holy and He cannot sin. The Bible tells us He cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18; Titus 1:2). Also, since God is eternal by nature (Psalm 90:2), He cannot stop being God. He cannot deny Himself (2 Tim. 2:13). God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone with evil (James 1:13).

Some critics of Christianity will say that if God is so powerful and He can do anything then He should be able to make a rock so big He can't pick it up. If He could do that, then there would be something He could not do. But such absurd and illogical challenges are meaningless. The truth is that God must be consistent with His own nature, and He cannot violate His own nature."

-https://carm.org/questions/about-god/can-god-do-everything-including-sin​

Ok, I understand what you are saying and appreciate the references and stand corrected

But as far as the Earth, universe, our existence, logic, time and everything we have come to know... It is all created by God. He created it through his unfathomable omnipotence. So if he created the Earth before he created time, would there be any point in disputing the age of the earth?

 

[TravisD]

I think it's God who is perfect not the books used to make the Bible.

I see your point, but that thinking allows us to be very selective in what we believe. Why believe any of the bible if your not going to believe all of it? This, of course, is probably the topic of many o' threads.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness -- 2 Timothy 3:16 KJV

 

[TravisD]

God also can not lie.
For reference
Hebrews 6:17-1921st Century King James Version (KJ21)

Thanks sdowney71, you are absolutely correct.

 

[TravisD]

I don't believe the story in Genesis 1 is "fact". That doesn't mean I don't think it's true.

Edit: So I don't think "proof", whatever that would mean, would affect me either way. Espscially since I'm pretty unable to evaluate anything that would be considered proof.

You don't believe it as "fact", because there is not scientific evidence to back it up I assume? I fully understand that position. As for your Edit, a big reason I created this thread is because I'm not a Scientist and when I listen to Scientists have a debate, I find myself believing things based on my bias rather than actual science. So then I stop myself and ask, what does it matter anyway? I'll put my faith first and go from there.

 

[Colter]

I see your point, but that thinking allows us to be very selective in what we believe. Why believe any of the bible if your not going to believe all of it? This, of course, is probably the topic of many o' threads.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness -- 2 Timothy 3:16 KJV

For lack of a better anowlogy, I don't disbelieve the entire newspaper just because some of the facts in stories may not be accurate. The author of 2 Timothy is expressing an opinion about OT scripture. And I would say the doings of God inspired human books about those events, but I don't see the books as perfect.

 

[archer75]

You don't believe it as "fact", because there is not scientific evidence to back it up I assume?

Not quite -- more like the statements in Genesis 1 are not the kind of thing that can be factual. There's nothing that can prove or disprove them because they aren't that kind of statements.

I think of the earliest parts of Genesis as mythical, by which I do NOT mean that they aren't true or are just "nice stories". They are the product of a different kind of consciousness. Different from our habitual "is it factual or isn't it" thinking.

And as you said, in practical terms, it doesn't make a big difference. It's not like I'm going to lay claim to Eve's account at the Bank of Eden.

 

[sdowney717]

Not quite -- more like the statements in Genesis 1 are not the kind of thing that can be factual. There's nothing that can prove or disprove them because they aren't that kind of statements.

I think of the earliest parts of Genesis as mythical, by which I do NOT mean that they aren't true or are just "nice stories". They are the product of a different kind of consciousness. Different from our habitual "is it factual or isn't it" thinking.

And as you said, in practical terms, it doesn't make a big difference. It's not like I'm going to lay claim to Eve's account at the Bank of Eden.

Jesus said it like this, in saying 'have you not read', Christ points them to the scripture as authoritatively accurate.
Here are 2 examples where He uses this phrasing.

Matthew 19:3-521st Century King James Version (KJ21)
3 The Pharisees also came unto Him, testing Him and saying unto Him, “Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?”

4 And He answered and said unto them, “Have ye not read, that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh’?

Matthew 22:30-3221st Century King James Version (KJ21)
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in Heaven.

31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

 

[archer75]

Jesus said it like this, in saying 'have you not read', Christ points them to the scripture as authoritatively accurate.
Here are 2 examples where He uses this phrasing”

I didn't mean in my post that it's not "authoritatively accurate". But then I'm not sure whether you were correcting me or agreeing with me.

 

[sdowney717]

I didn't mean in my post that it's not "authoritatively accurate". But then I'm not sure whether you were correcting me or agreeing with me.

Just responded in regards to what you said about them not being factual. I find in Jesus's words that He said they were factually true as written, otherwise He would not have said 'have you not read'.

"Not quite -- more like the statements in Genesis 1 are not the kind of thing that can be factual. There's nothing that can prove or disprove them because they aren't that kind of statements."

 

[archer75]

Just responded in regards to what you said about them not being factual. I find in Jesus's words that He said they were factually true as written, otherwise He would not have said 'have you not read'.

But he...doesn't say they were "factually true". He does seem to refer to certain writing as authoritative. But that's not the same thing. At least, to me, there's a big difference between being true or authoritative and being factual.

 

[juvenissun]

My point is, if all the scientific theories and evidence were piled up and miraculously proved the Earth is 500 gazillion years old, would it matter? Would it even change your faith?

It does not matter.

BUT... when atheists and evolutionists USE the age argument to attack the literal truth of the Bible, then the issue becomes critical. If Christians are not able to defend it, then it WILL become an issue of faith.