Is the age of the Earth worth disputing?

[juvenissun]

Ok, I understand what you are saying and appreciate the references and stand corrected

But as far as the Earth, universe, our existence, logic, time and everything we have come to know... It is all created by God. He created it through his unfathomable omnipotence. So if he created the Earth before he created time, would there be any point in disputing the age of the earth?

Interesting idea. But Gen.1:1 clearly says the time/space is the first thing God created. You need to have space to put the earth in it. If the space is there, then the time comes with it.

 

[juvenissun]

You don't believe it as "fact", because there is not scientific evidence to back it up I assume? I fully understand that position. As for your Edit, a big reason I created this thread is because I'm not a Scientist and when I listen to Scientists have a debate, I find myself believing things based on my bias rather than actual science. So then I stop myself and ask, what does it matter anyway? I'll put my faith first and go from there.

Genesis 1 is FULLY supported by modern scientific knowledge. Furthermore, what's said in Genesis 1 exceeds what modern sciences can see.

 

[sdowney717]

But he...doesn't say they were "factually true". He does seem to refer to certain writing as authoritative. But that's not the same thing. At least, to me, there's a big difference between being true or authoritative and being factual.

Why did Jesus need to come to earth to die for our sins?
The reason why is taught to us in Genesis 1 to 3.
So very relevant, the first mention of Christ is in what God says in Genesis 3 regarding what had happened to what God had made.
Genesis 1 lays the groundwork for the entire purpose of the gospel which is the restoration of all things back to where as God says in Genesis 1 that everything is very good, no evil, no Satan, no death.

Genesis 1
31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Acts 3:20-21New King James Version (NKJV)
20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,
21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Matthew 19:27-29New King James Version (NKJV)
27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”

28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

 

[archer75]

Okay, I appreciate the reply from @sdowney717 above, but I don't understand how it fits into the discussion of being "factual". I have a feeling we're talking about different things.

 

[Neogaia777]

Not really, since it far more likely that all of "this" is more than likely, a simulation, or an illusion...

God Bless!

 

[dqhall]

God created. Man speculated about what God created. Potassium-Argon dating and stratigraphy were beyond the technical understanding of Pentateuch writer(s) who tried to write about events they were not eye-witnesses of.

 

[archer75]

God created. Man speculated about what God created. Potassium-Argon dating and stratigraphy were beyond the technical understanding of Pentateuch writer(s) who tried to write about events they were not eye-witnesses of.

And I bet you a dollar they had plenty of understanding that we lack which is why we go to their texts to learn.

Of course, I feel lame for not having their understanding OR any technical knowledge of potassium-argon dating.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

For lack of a better anowlogy, I don't disbelieve the entire newspaper just because some of the facts in stories may not be accurate. The author of 2 Timothy is expressing an opinion about OT scripture. And I would say the doings of God inspired human books about those events, but I don't see the books as perfect.

Not all faiths are the same. There are those who even believe in another Jesus. The problem with not believing Genesis is that the Bible warns against those who turn the Scriptures into fables (2 Timothy 4:4).


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[archer75]

Not all faiths are the same. There are those who even believe in another Jesus. The problem with not believing Genesis is that the Bible warns against those who turn the Scriptures into fables (2 Timothy 4:4).


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I don't think that's the sense of that verse. Seems it's about those who turn away from truth and turn to fables. Not about anyone turning anything into anything.

 

[AlexDTX]

If a Christian believes in his/her heart that God created all things including the universe and time itself, then why is the age of the Earth worth disputing or proving?

I ask this not for a scientific debate, but rather an opinion on how much time we should spend discussing these matters vs what the Bible teaches.

Consider the following scenario:

You have a 500 year old oak tree in your front yard. You love the tree so much, you ask God during a nightly prayer to give you another one exactly like it. The next morning you wake up and peer out the window. Your eyes behold a 2nd oak tree in your front yard exactly like the other one.

If you cut down both tree's, would the new tree have the same amount of rings? Of course, because God made it exactly the same as the first. And somehow, the tree is only hours old.

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My point is, if all the scientific theories and evidence were piled up and miraculously proved the Earth is 500 gazillion years old, would it matter? Would it even change your faith?

I understand your point of view, but to some extent the age of the universe does matter. The reason it matters is because God created the universe with laws of function. He does not change those laws, although he can supersede the laws, which are the occasions of miracles. Because God is consistent, the age of the universe is relevant. If light takes so much time to travel, and the stars are such and such distance, then the time to get here can be calculated. Does that mean I believe in an old universe? No I don't because there can be other explanations. Dr. Russel Humphrys gives a good explanation of a young Earth with an old universe in his book, Starlight and Time. This is, of course, just one alternative explanation.

Science as we know it began with Christians who believed in a consistent God who made consistent laws of physics. The subject of the age of creation is worth understanding because all creation declares the glory of God and it is another view in understanding our great God.

Do we need to have an opinion on the matter to walk with Christ? Not at all. But God made all kinds of people, and there are some that God wants to inquire into such things.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't think that's the sense of that verse. Seems it's about those who turn away from truth and turn to fables. Not about anyone turning anything into anything.

But that is what it says. For the Scriptures also say,

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).


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[archer75]

It says "and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables."

Turning from X to Y. Not turning X into Y. This is not what you said above when you said "the Bible warns against those who turn the Scriptures into fables".

I'm not even arguing for my original point, which is not addressed by this verse anyway. I'm only saying that the verse says turning away from one thing and to another, not turning one thing into another.

Edit: my original point, of course, was not really a point but a perspective. Now I'm just saying that this verse doesn't warn against that perspective.

Edit 2: I don't think the Thessalonians verse addresses this, either. It doesn't address "factualness". I made a distinction between truth and fact. No one seems very interested in that, which is fine, but I don't see how these verses tell me that it's wrong to distinguish between truth and facts.

 

[Colter]

Not all faiths are the same. There are those who even believe in another Jesus. The problem with not believing Genesis is that the Bible warns against those who turn the Scriptures into fables (2 Timothy 4:4).


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Strict belief in the scriptures lead the Jews to reject Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Strict belief in the scriptures lead the Jews to reject Jesus.

Your reading a different Bible then. Jesus said they obeyed the commandments of men and they did not obey God's Commandments. Jesus called them hypocrites.

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[Bible Highlighter]

It says "and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables."

Turning from X to Y. Not turning X into Y. This is not what you said above when you said "the Bible warns against those who turn the Scriptures into fables".

I'm not even arguing for my original point, which is not addressed by this verse anyway. I'm only saying that the verse says turning away from one thing and to another, not turning one thing into another.

Edit: my original point, of course, was not really a point but a perspective. Now I'm just saying that this verse doesn't warn against that perspective.

Edit 2: I don't think the Thessalonians verse addresses this, either. It doesn't address "factualness". I made a distinction between truth and fact. No one seems very interested in that, which is fine, but I don't see how these verses tell me that it's wrong to distinguish between truth and facts.

Peter declared the truth of Jesus Christ and told others that they were not myths.

"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty." (2 Peter 1:16).

The same would hold true for Moses and his writings.

Read the list of Scripture verses in this article here.

Have Nothing To Do With Fables...


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[Bible Highlighter]

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 1:25).

What truth of God?

His Word.

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." (John 17:17).

Does the Bible talk about being sanctified by the Word of God? Yes sir. It sure does.

Ephesians 5:25-26
25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, "

Anyways, to turn the truth of God's Word into a lie is essentially to turn the Scriptures into fables. A fable is a lie or a myth that is not true.


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[archer75]

I seem to be unable to write so as to communicate what I mean, so I had better bow out of the discussion. Thanks and Merry Christmas!

 

[sdowney717]

Strict belief in the scriptures lead the Jews to reject Jesus.

Actually, the jews did not believe the scriptures, nor Moses who wrote of the Christ.
John 5:44-46New King James Version (NKJV)
44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How do we receive faith?

Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. If the foundation of the Word I received was a lie or a myth, then there is no faith. Do you see the problem in calling any part of God's Word as a lie or as a myth? It's a big problem. You either believe all of it or you don't believe it. It's a package deal. All or nothing. We cannot pick and choose what parts of the Bible we want to believe in. If certain things are uncomfortable for you to accept, then you need to ask God for help with that.


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[archer75]

I was very clear that by "myth" I didn't mean "a lie" or "not true".