Is So, Is Not, Is Too

[TLK Valentine]

Judging by your posts, I'd say YES.So it's okay to quench the Spirit and still expect to reap His benefits?

What benefits? The ability to see the Emperor's new clothes?

 

[AV1611VET]

Now, now... you know he'd only say that because it's against forum rules to say what he really thinks: That you were never a Christian in the first place.

I'm actually going to give him credit for being saved.

Just like I do you.

Once saved, always save, eh?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I'm actually going to give him credit for being saved.

Just like I do you.

Once saved, always save, eh?

So it's okay to quench the Spirit and still expect to reap His benefits?

 

[Ophiolite]

You should know by now that morality takes a back seat to literalism... these people would be lost if anything in the Bible didn't actually happen.

Yes, I know that, unfortunately, you are correct. I also know that it is against forum rules to question the self-declared Christianity of members. As far as I am aware it is not against forum rules to remind everyone that Christianity carries a message of tolerance, love, brotherhood/sisterhood and humility. (As a non-Christian I don't need to adhere to the last one. ) And, as a non-Christian, I can suggest that tolerance, love, brotherhood/sisterhood, humility are much more important than a selfish concern for ones immortal soul. And for that I expect to be ignored, despised, and censured.

 

[AV1611VET]

What benefits?

Haven't we had this conversation before?

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Why did you gave all that up to become an agnostic?

 

[AV1611VET]

So it's okay to quench the Spirit and still expect to reap His benefits?

Salvation is eternal.

 

[AV1611VET]

And, as a non-Christian, I can suggest that tolerance, love, brotherhood/sisterhood, humility are much more important than a selfish concern for ones immortal soul. And for that I expect to be ignored, despised, and censured.

... and prayed for.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Haven't we had this conversation before?

Not that I recall -- or if we did, I may have dismissed it as doubletalk.

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Why did you gave all that up to become an agnostic?

Ah, yes... doubletalk.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Salvation is eternal.

Meaning the drug dealer, serial rapist, mass murdering dictator, or what-have-you need only repent once, at any point in their lives, and should they relapse later on and return to their sinful ways, well... no harm, no foul.

I know you're a big fan of deathbed conversions, but it seems that the deathbed is no longer necessary...

 

[Ophiolite]

... and prayed for.

Generally I would prefer to be ignored, despised and censured. Those are less patronising and suggest I might actually be a danger.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yes, I know that, unfortunately, you are correct. I also know that it is against forum rules to question the self-declared Christianity of members.

Actually, AFAIK, it's against the forum rules to question the self-declared Christianity of anybody, member or not. That rule used to take a pounding over on the politics forum.... from about 2008-2016...

...but I digress.

As far as I am aware it is not against forum rules to remind everyone that Christianity carries a message of tolerance, love, brotherhood/sisterhood and humility. (As a non-Christian I don't need to adhere to the last one. ) And, as a non-Christian, I can suggest that tolerance, love, brotherhood/sisterhood, humility are much more important than a selfish concern for ones immortal soul. And for that I expect to be ignored, despised, and censured.

Indeed -- because far too many Christians figure that as long as they worship the messenger, they can ignore the message.

You would think they would realize that Truth is Truth no matter where it comes from.

 

[AV1611VET]

Meaning the drug dealer, serial rapist, mass murdering dictator, or what-have-you need only repent once, at any point in their lives, and should they relapse later on and return to their sinful ways, well... no harm, no foul.

Nimrod did it; Solomon did it; Jesus' disciples did it ... what makes you an exception?

 

[AV1611VET]

Generally I would prefer to be ignored, despised and censured.

Then you're in the wrong place, aren't you?

 

[Ophiolite]

Then you're in the wrong place, aren't you?

Not really. Currently one member is refusing to address a pertinent question and he's not the first.
I've been treated like dirt in the politics section for expressing liberal views.
I've been issued warnings for calling out other members for passive-aggressive behaviour.

So I have been ignored, despised and censured. Fortunately, there are a large number of other Christian members who are a fair minded, polite, respectful and knowledgeable who are a credit to their religion. I thank them all.

 

[AV1611VET]

I thank them all.

By way of "thanks, but no thanks"?

I'm glad you had a good experience with them ... they're your brothers & sisters in Christ ... of whom you've choosen for whatever reason to disown them.

But if you're going to play the BEEN THERE DONE THAT card with me, I'm going to ask some tough questions.

 

[Ophiolite]

By way of "thanks, but no thanks"?

I have no idea why you would think that.

I'm glad you had a good experience with them ... they're your brothers & sisters in Christ ... of whom you've choosen for whatever reason to disown them.

That's not my perspective. They are fellow humans beings. Like all the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Taoists, Moslems, etc. and all the Australians, Vietnamese, Argentinians, etc. and all the men, women and children. The specific Christian members I referenced earlier I feel considerably closer to than I do a militant atheist like Dawkins, or a narcicistic buffon like Trump. But they are all fellow humans, with the strengths and weaknesses that typify our species.

But if you're going to play the BEEN THERE DONE THAT card with me, I'm going to ask some tough questions.

I'm not playing that card. I was raised a Christian. I value the Christian ethical position. Leaving the religion is not a significant event in my life, since I took with me everything I found of value and integrity within it. But ask away, if it meets a need for you.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not playing that card. I was raised a Christian. I value the Christian ethical position. Leaving the religion is not a significant event in my life, since I took with me everything I found of value and integrity within it. But ask away, if it meets a need for you.

Then you were never saved in the first place? is that what you're saying?

 

[Ophiolite]

Then you were never saved in the first place? is that what you're saying?

No. I'm not saying that, though you appear to be. I've made no claim to have been saved, or not saved. You might interpret my posts to mean that I reject the concept of being saved, but that's up to you. (Was that meant to be one of your tough questions?)

 

[AV1611VET]

No. I'm not saying that, though you appear to be. I've made no claim to have been saved, or not saved. You might interpret my posts to mean that I reject the concept of being saved, but that's up to you. (Was that meant to be one of your tough questions?)

Wow -- just wow.

Ophiolite ... simple question ... are you saved or aren't you?

Forget your mom ... forget your dad ... forget your upbringing ... forget your friends ... just tell me if you are saved or not, and I'll go from there.

I don't want to treat you like you're saved, if you never got saved; and I'm not going to treat you like you're lost, if you did get saved.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Nimrod did it; Solomon did it; Jesus' disciples did it ... what makes you an exception?

It must be frustrating... to be saved amongst the backslid, knowing that your continued faith and devotion means nothing.

That's one of the reasons some Christians reject OSAS, you know... whether they'd admit it or not: A God who loves everyone is, for all intents and purposes, no different from a God who loves no one.