Is So, Is Not, Is Too

[Silmarien]

Which would make the most sense -- an all-knowing deity would know that you cannot pour a gallon of knowledge into a shot-glass of a brain. You need to work with what's in front of you.

But, but, but! If God was not giving Moses lessons in molecular biology and advanced thermodynamics on Mount Sinai, then God is a liar and the whole religion falls apart. Obviously.

 

[SkyWriting]

But he did sometimes employ the use of parable, according to scripture.

There is no evidence that what
we call parables
found in scripture are fictional.

 

[Ophiolite]

There is no evidence that what
we call parables
found in scripture are fictional.

Apart from the definition of parable and the rich tradition of metaphor to convey moral concepts.

 

[AV1611VET]

Apart from the definition of parable and the rich tradition of metaphor to convey moral concepts.

Are you seriously suggesting that ... by way of example ... the parable of the Good Samaritan didn't happen?

And by way of another example, no one ever saw a pearl of great price, sold his possessions and bought one?

 

[Ophiolite]

Are you seriously suggesting that ... by way of example ... the parable of the Good Samaritan didn't happen?

I think it completely irrelevant as to whether it happened or not. The point is that it should have happened and that is the essence of the argument.

It is a tale, a morality tale, telling us how we should behave in a given set of circumstances. It is true in the sense that there have always been individuals who have "done the right thing" and these are often persons who, in our prejudice, we might not expect to do so. But whether the actual events recounted in the parable occured, who cares? Well, apparently you do, but in so doing I suggest you miss the central message of the parable.

Put another way, if incontrovertible proof were to be found tomorrow that the tale was true it would not alter my view of it in any way. If incontrovertible proof were found that the tale was false - same result. No change of my view of the powerful and important message it delivers so eloquently. Actually, reflecting on it as I write, I think I find its message slightly more powerful if it is, as detailed, fictional, but basically I don't care either way. . . . . . . . And neither should you.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think it completely irrelevant as to whether it happened or not.

Then why are we having this discussion?

 

[Ophiolite]

Then why are we having this discussion?

You asked me some questions. I answered them. It's the polite thing to do. Why are you asking the questions?

Edit: It occurs to me that you may mean, why did I make my comments to Sky Writing in the first place? Simple. While I do not think it is relevant whether the parables are fictional or real, I think it very relevant if people insist they are real (or, for that matter, insist they are fictional). Such insistence detracts from and obfuscates the real message these parables deliver. That should be important to all Christians and to all non-Christians who value the moral content of the tales.

 

[AV1611VET]

While I do not think it is relevant whether the parables are fictional or real, I think it very relevant if people insist they are real (or, for that matter, insist they are fictional). Such insistence detracts from and obfuscates the real message these parables deliver. That should be important to all Christians and to all non-Christians who value the moral content of the tales.

Are you suggesting that those who say those parables are real (or not real) are running the risk of missing the point of the message?

 

[Ophiolite]

Are you suggesting that those who say those parables are real (or not real) are running the risk of missing the point of the message?

I am sorry you thought I was merely suggesting it. I am declaring it as an absolute, definite, major concern. They are at risk of seeing only a diluted message. Do you think it is unimportant that a core item of Christian morality be diluted?

 

[AV1611VET]

I am sorry you thought I was merely suggesting it. I am declaring it as an absolute, definite, major concern. They are at risk of seeing only a diluted message. Do you think it is unimportant that a core item of Christian morality be diluted?

Jesus says who won't be the ones who get the message.

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

These parables are "mysteries of the kingdom of God."

And for an agnostic or an atheist to even hint he understands them fully is ... well ... let's just say:

Exercising his right to free speech.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Are you seriously suggesting that ... by way of example ... the parable of the Good Samaritan didn't happen?

And by way of another example, no one ever saw a pearl of great price, sold his possessions and bought one?

Would you ignore the lesson it taught if it didn't literally happen?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Jesus says who won't be the ones who get the message.

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

These parables are "mysteries of the kingdom of God."

...which you deny. According to you, they're just mundane events Jesus witnessed while walking around.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I am sorry you thought I was merely suggesting it. I am declaring it as an absolute, definite, major concern. They are at risk of seeing only a diluted message. Do you think it is unimportant that a core item of Christian morality be diluted?

You should know by now that morality takes a back seat to literalism... these people would be lost if anything in the Bible didn't actually happen.

 

[AV1611VET]

Would you ignore the lesson it taught if it didn't literally happen?

I might.

I certainly wouldn't be obligated to take it literally.

Jesus wasn't a Confucian.

 

[AV1611VET]

...which you deny. According to you, they're just mundane events Jesus witnessed while walking around.

LOL

 

[AV1611VET]

... these people would be lost if anything in the Bible didn't actually happen.

So would you.

Oh, wait ... !

 

[TLK Valentine]

I might.

Then you, not unlike our Sanhedrin friend Nicodemus, would have struggled to figure out how to re-enter a womb when Jesus spoke of being "born again."

Poor guy -- all that theological know-how, and the point eluded him. On the plus side, he clearly wasn't alone.

I certainly wouldn't be obligated to take it literally.

You're certainly not -- John's Gospel (where, as you know, the Nicodemus exchange happened) did all but hold up a sign warning you against literalism.

Alas, one needs eyes to see it.

Jesus wasn't a Confucian.

Why would it be so unacceptable to you if he had been? You know what they say about great minds thinking alike...

 

[Ophiolite]

Jesus says who won't be the ones who get the message.

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

These parables are "mysteries of the kingdom of God."

And for an agnostic or an atheist to even hint he understands them fully is ... well ... let's just say:

Exercising his right to free speech.

So when I stopped being a Christian I suddenly lost my insight into the mysteries? Right. That makes as much sense as most of your posts. Bravo for consistency.

 

[AV1611VET]

So when I stopped being a Christian I suddenly lost my insight into the mysteries? Right.

Judging by your posts, I'd say YES.

That makes as much sense as most of your posts. Bravo for consistency.

So it's okay to quench the Spirit and still expect to reap His benefits?

 

[TLK Valentine]

So when I stopped being a Christian I suddenly lost my insight into the mysteries? Right. That makes as much sense as most of your posts. Bravo for consistency.

Now, now... you know he'd only say that because it's against forum rules to say what he really thinks: That you were never a Christian in the first place.