Is Purgatory real?

[PeaceB]

1.never said Timothy said anything about sola.. And neither am.I .
You'r just repeating the age old trick.
Keep changing the topic ...straw men and red herrings..

Yeah yeah ..blah blah same argument ..
Your just saying it is so because the rcc says it is so.
And that doesn't agree with what God said.
So nice try.

It changes nothing.
The doctrine of purgatory is not in scripture Because it's not of God.

Its a lie.

It absolutely contradicts the work of Christ on the cross.

No, you are wrong. And you do not even know what the Bible is, let alone what it teaches.

 

[Alithis]

No, you are wrong. And you do not even know what the Bible is, let alone what it teaches.

Haha why ..because YOU say so?

I mean talk about prove the point.
And I'm well aware of the bible and what is written .and that eveything written in the nt has a precident in the ot.
I also know what it does NOT say ..and that is purgatory. It doesn't even agree with it at any level.

 

[PeaceB]

Haha why ..because YOU say so?

I mean talk about prove the point

You have asserted in this thread that purgatory contradicts the work of Christ on the cross, but you have done nothing to prove this. So why should anyone believe you? Because you say so?

Are you being hypocritical?

 

[Alithis]

You have asserted in this thread that purgatory contradicts the work of Christ on the cross, but you have done nothing to prove this. So why should anyone believe you? Because you say so?

Are you being hypocritical?

Now your still trying to change the topic ..more straw man arguments then throw in another red herring .

Simply because you know darn well you cannot support the topic of the False doctrine of purgatory from direct Unambiguous scripture.

Because it's not in there.
If you wish to defend whats not in scripture then tell us how it agrees with scripture. Tell us how you think Jesus Failed to take on himself the sins of men and so failed on the cross that some have to bear their own temporary punishment for sin -an Absolute contradiction of ALL the Gospel.

I'm not the one presenting something that is Not in scripture. You are.

And so far the only basis of your defence has been ...“it is true because we the rcc say so“

You've got nothing.

Be honest about it. I not calling you dishonest..its just evident.

 

[PeaceB]

Now your still trying to change the topic ..more straw man arguments then throw in another red herring .

Simply because you know darn well you cannot support the topic of the False doctrine of purgatory from direct Unambiguous scripture.

Because it's not in there.
If you wish to defend whats not in scripture then tell us how it agrees with scripture. Tell us how you think Jesus Failed to take on himself the sins of men and so failed on the cross that some have to bear their own temporary punishment for sin -an Absolute contradiction of ALL the Gospel.

I'm not the one presenting something that is Not in scripture. You are.

And so far the only basis of your defence has been ...“it is true because we the rcc say so“

You've got nothing.

Be honest about it. I not calling you dishonest..its just evident.

No, YOU wrote that purgatory "absolutely contradicts the work of Christ on the cross". Now prove what you wrote is true, or admit that you are wrong or a liar.

 

[Seymore Bell]

Well first to be truth it does not have to be defended with ambiguous cut and paste bits and pieces forcefit together in a desperate attemp to make a made up doctrine that does not exist in scripture sound valid when it's not.
And His name is Jesus...
Not pope whoever.

You?

Ch. Bell

What do I know about truth?

JESUS said, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." John 17:17
GOD WORD IS TRUTH!

God Bless,

Well first to be truth it does not have to be defended with ambiguous cut and paste bits and pieces forcefit together in a desperate attemp to make a made up doctrine that does not exist in scripture sound valid when it's not.
And His name is Jesus...
Not pope whoever.

You?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Purgatory is a unique idea that arose from within the Western, Latin theological tradition, most especially in the late middle ages (though hints of it can be seen in late antiquity). It's never been part of the Eastern theological tradition (which is why the Orthodox do not believe in it). The chief reason why the Reformers rejected Purgatory has to do with a lot of things, not only because it didn't seem to have any basis in Scripture or in the teachings of the ancient fathers of the Church; but also because in the popular imagination Purgatory seemed to deny the objectivity and reality of Christ's all-sufficient and efficacious work. The issue is a complicated one, and proper discussion of the subject really needs to be done by understanding the circumstances of history and the ideas of the middle ages (not by modern polemical dismissal, but making an earnest effort).

As a full disclaimer: No, I do not believe in Purgatory.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Alithis]

No, YOU wrote that purgatory "absolutely contradicts the work of Christ on the cross". Now prove what you wrote is true, or admit that you are wrong or a liar.

Lol firstly it's not in scripture..contradiction number 1.
2nd Jesus took all sin upon himself on the cross..he did not fail in what he was sent to do.
3rd if a man can be published for his own sin and still be saved then there is Zero reason for Jesus to be crucified at all.
These alone U show it to be an absolute contradiction.

Ok your turn ..show us Unambiguously where it is in scripture and how it agrees with scripture.

 

[PeaceB]

Lol firstly it's not in scripture..contradiction number 1.
2nd Jesus took all sin upon himself on the cross..he did not fail in what he was sent to do.
3rd if a man can be published for his own sin and still be saved then there is Zero reason for Jesus to be crucified at all.
These alone U show it to be an absolute contradiction.

1．Scripture doesn't say that my username is PeaceB. By your silly logic my username also contradicts Scripture. Either that or you do not know what the word contradict means.

Scripture does not teach that all doctrines not explicitly shown in Scripture contradict Scripture.

2．Scripture does not teach penal substitution. That is a false Protestant doctrine.

3．Scripture does not teach that Jesus's redeeming work on the cross means that believers are set free of all punishment for their sins.

4．You have did not cite one verse of Scripture to support your assertions above. That is because they are not in Scripture. You have proven nothing. You have provided only "ambiguous waffle."

So prove what you wrote is true or admit that you were wrong or are a liar.

 

[Alithis]

1．Scripture doesn't say that my username is PeaceB. By your silly logic my username also contradicts Scripture. Either that or you do not know what the word contradict means.

Scripture does not teach that all doctrines not explicitly shown in Scripture contradict Scripture.

2．Scripture does not teach penal substitution. That is a false Protestant doctrine.

3．Scripture teach that Jesus's redeeming work on the cross means that believers are set free of all punishment for their sins.

4．You have did not cite one verse of Scripture to support your assertions above. That is because they are not in Scripture. You have proven nothing. You have provided only "ambiguous waffle."

So prove what you wrote is true or admit that you were wrong or are a liar.

Yeah yeah more blah blah ...after your done trying to misdirect the topic. Perhaps you can get back to showing pugatiry from scripture?
Oh wait... You can't. Its not in there nor does it agree with scripture.(as already pointed out).

Pugatory is a false Doctrine.

 

[PeaceB]

Yeah yeah more blah blah ...after your done trying to misdirect the topic. Perhaps you can get back to showing pugatiry from scripture?
Oh wait... You can't. Its not in there nor does it agree with scripture.(as already pointed out).

Pugatory is a false Doctrine.

No, what you wrote is false. YOU wrote that purgatory "absolutely contradicts the work of Christ on the cross". Now prove what you wrote is true, or admit that you are wrong or a liar. I asked you for Scripture to prove what you wrote is true, and you provided nothing except "ambiguous waffle". Not even one single Scripture verse!

That is because what you wrote is false, and you know it.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Peace be with you.

Yes, Purgatory is True and Real according to Catholic Tradition.

Trust us Catholics, we are the Keepers of the True Faith in Jesus Christ.

God bless you.

 

[Albion]

It is true to Catholics, that's right. Just like speaking in tongues is real to Pentecostal Christians and Golden Plates are true to Mormons. What you wrote puts it in proper perspective and that's probably the way a lot of these controversies should be seen.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

It is true to Catholics, that's right. Just like speaking in tongues is real to Pentecostal Christians and Golden Plates are true to Mormons. What you wrote puts it in proper perspective and that's probably the way a lot of these controversies should be seen.

Peace be with you.

I commend and thank you for your words of wisdom.

God bless you.

 

[Phil 1:21]

2 Corinthians 5:21 "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

 

[PeaceB]

It is true to Catholics, that's right. Just like speaking in tongues is real to Pentecostal Christians and Golden Plates are true to Mormons. What you wrote puts it in proper perspective and that's probably the way a lot of these controversies should be seen.

And just like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are "true" to heretics.

 

[Phantasman]

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real? Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross? Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb? This life on Earth is a waiting place for us; why go to another waiting place? Aren't we made clean by accepting His death?

The Catholic church has benefited (and even profited) of creating a place where the Priests can "pray" a person out of.

There is nothing I have found in either NT Canon nor the non Canon scriptures of a "purgatory".

The Catholics did read the non Canon books and may have adopted the idea from the Gospel of Philip:

And so he dwells either in this world or in the resurrection or in the middle place. God forbid that I be found in there! In this world, there is good and evil. Its good things are not good, and its evil things not evil. But there is evil after this world which is truly evil - what is called "the middle". It is death. While we are in this world, it is fitting for us to acquire the resurrection, so that when we strip off the flesh, we may be found in rest and not walk in the middle. For many go astray on the way. For it is good to come forth from the world before one has sinned.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Purgatory is a unique idea that arose from within the Western, Latin theological tradition, most especially in the late middle ages (though hints of it can be seen in late antiquity). It's never been part of the Eastern theological tradition (which is why the Orthodox do not believe in it). The chief reason why the Reformers rejected Purgatory has to do with a lot of things, not only because it didn't seem to have any basis in Scripture or in the teachings of the ancient fathers of the Church; but also because in the popular imagination Purgatory seemed to deny the objectivity and reality of Christ's all-sufficient and efficacious work. The issue is a complicated one, and proper discussion of the subject really needs to be done by understanding the circumstances of history and the ideas of the middle ages (not by modern polemical dismissal, but making an earnest effort).

As a full disclaimer: No, I do not believe in Purgatory.

-CryptoLutheran

I'll disagree with you on what you disclaimed, but yours was at least a historical approach. Thank you for an earnest effort. What I think has to be historically accounted for is the Jewish practice of praying for the dead, which the Orthodox also do along with the Catholics. Praying for the dead goes back to the early Church. Make sense of that and purgatory becomes less baffling.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'll disagree with you on what you disclaimed, but yours was at least a historical approach. Thank you for an earnest effort. What I think has to be historically accounted for is the Jewish practice of praying for the dead, which the Orthodox also do along with the Catholics. Praying for the dead goes back to the early Church. Make sense of that and purgatory becomes less baffling.

Lutherans don't reject praying for the dead, our Confessions in fact expressly state that prayers for the dead being the historic and attested practice of the Church should not be prohibited. But like our Orthodox brethren we reject the idea and doctrine of Purgatory.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[chevyontheriver]

Lutherans don't reject praying for the dead, our Confessions in fact expressly state that prayers for the dead being the historic and attested practice of the Church should not be prohibited. But like our Orthodox brethren we reject the idea and doctrine of Purgatory.

-CryptoLutheran

Didn't know that. Do Lutherans know that?