Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[Angelquill]

By that reasoning, the death penalty should be considered a lesser sentence than life in prison.

doesn't make sense to me, either....

 

[MoreCoffee]

what do you think "eternal" means?

Whatever it means in Matthew 25:46 is has the same meaning for punishment and life. Both are eternal. Isn't that what the passage says?

They will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

 

[MoreCoffee]

By that reasoning, the death penalty should be considered a lesser sentence than life in prison.

From a human point of view life imprisonment is more punishing than a momentary punishment ending in death.

 

[Angelquill]

You are right, it is not punishment for an inanimate object to be inanimate. If annihilation takes an hour then the punishment would be an hour not everlasting.

Are you an inanimate object?
Do you think you'd like to be?

 

[MoreCoffee]

doesn't make sense to me, either....

That, no doubt, is where the problem lies; you want it to make sense to you before you'll believe what Jesus says and that seems the reverse of what Jesus asks for.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Are you an inanimate object?
Do you think you'd like to be?

A destroyed body is inanimate isn't it? Especially if it is annihilated.

 

[seeingeyes]

From a human point of view life imprisonment is more punishing than a momentary punishment ending in death.

Are you speaking from an inhuman point of view?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Anyway, back to what Jesus said, of the wicked he said that they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Are you speaking from an inhuman point of view?

I am not going to get sidetracked. What's Matthew 25:46 about?

 

[MoreCoffee]

In the light of what Jesus said what do those of you who said God would be cruel to eternally torment people have to say? There it is, in your bible, Jesus saying that the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. So are you going to retract the complaint against God that you made? Or do you still stand by your words that eternal torment makes God cruel?

 

[Timothew]

The purpose for hell is punishment, ie, the Kingdom they helped to distress thus removing the forever punishment from the equation....sure Christians can be in and of the world during the week then the Sunday 1 hour routine then if don't make it, croak (dont' exist)...no punishment...

Eyeball "punishment" again at Matt.13:41b with a valid interpretation of course.

Only old Jack's opinion, not in or of the world during the week...24/7 Jesus and the Cross!!!

I emphatically disagree that being completely destroyed is not a punishment. I also disagree with those who claim that complete and permanent destruction is not eternal punishment. It lasts forever so it is eternal. It is the removal of the privilege of life so it is punishment. I'm sure you disagree, but you haven't proven that destruction is not punishment or that being destroyed for all eternity is not eternal punishment.

 

[Angelquill]

Whatever it means in Matthew 25:46 is has the same meaning for punishment and life. Both are eternal. Isn't that what the passage says?

They will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

"eternal" is an adjective. It describes something, like any other adjective.
Like, "red", for instance.
The red car. My red dress.
No one would think that a car and a dress are the same thing just because they are both red.
Same thing here.
Eternal punishment is not the same as eternal life. One is punishment, the other is life. Eternal only describes each one as being endless.
Now, death is the wages of sin, right? So, it is a punishment. Eternal describes it as being "without end". Unlike physical death, which ends when we are resurrected.
Now, if physical death were the punishment for sin, as some seem to think, please tell me what my grand daughters kitten, or those sunflowers in my yard, or that tree in the vacant lot across the street did, to deserve to be punished? They certainly did not sin...

 

[By Faith Alone]

If you could remove the Parables in light of Matt.13:11, etc., allegory, and etc. then we could all join in ing, however let's stick with the ing part allowing the Holy Spirit simply interpret for us.

Old ex-Navy, Jack's opinion

My brother. I used the KISS thingy because it was said to me. The "stupid" part filled the bill with the remaining "s". If I give a kiss, I give a hug. If I give a hug, I give a kiss.

Letting the Holy Spirit interpret also means we recognize the Lord's earthly ministry was to Israel. Right? The Lord said so Himself. Remember? In light of that fact we redice the parables and teachings of Matthew to Israel. These parables MUST be considered in light of that fact. The Kingdom of Heaven is the title of the Kingdom of Israel over which He will be King.

If we give advice, must we not adjure ourselves to consider the same about ourselves?

 

[MoreCoffee]

"eternal" is an adjective. It describes something, like any other adjective.
Like, "red", for instance.
The red car. My red dress.
No one would think that a car and a dress are the same thing just because they are both red.
Same thing here.
Eternal punishment is not the same as eternal life. One is punishment, the other is life. Eternal only describes each one as being endless.
Now, death is the wages of sin, right? So, it is a punishment. Eternal describes it as being "without end". Unlike physical death, which ends when we are resurrected.
Now, if physical death were the punishment for sin, as some seem to think, please tell me what my grand daughters kitten, or those sunflowers in my yard, or that tree in the vacant lot across the street did, to deserve to be punished? They certainly did not sin...

It's amazing how slippery you want to make a single statement by Jesus that takes only a few words to say, he said "they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." all this prevarication about the meaning of eternal is useless. The eternal punishment and the eternal life are both eternal, is your hope in Christ for eternal life or something less than eternal? Remember that if it is eternal life then it is also eternal punishment. The very thing you said would make God cruel. Surely Jesus isn't cruel, is he?

In the light of what Jesus said what do those of you who said God would be cruel to eternally torment people have to say? There it is, in your bible, Jesus saying that the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. So are you going to retract the complaint against God that you made? Or do you still stand by your words that eternal torment makes God cruel?

 

[Angelquill]

A destroyed body is inanimate isn't it? Especially if it is annihilated.

First of all, it isn't the body you need to worry about. That's so much meat, and really not worth very much.
It is the spirit, or whatever you like to call the essence that is you that lives in the meat that is important.
Where is that during the time between your physical death and your resurrection? Why, it went back to God, Who gave it to you to begin with. Don't worry, He won't lose it.
When the time comes for you to be judged, He will raise you with your spirit in tact.
Now, for those who go away into eternal punishment...well, I believe that the whole person will be completely destroyed...just like death, when it went into the lake of fire.
I do not insist that anyone else believe this...however, it is what I believe, based on the many, many verses that say things like "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" or "God is not willing that any should perish" or "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life", etc.
You do know that life is the opposite of death, right?

 

[MoreCoffee]

First of all, it isn't the body you need to worry about. That's so much meat, and really not worth very much.
It is the spirit, or whatever you like to call the essence that is you that lives in the meat that is important.
Where is that during the time between your physical death and your resurrection? Why, it went back to God, Who gave it to you to begin with. Don't worry, He won't lose it.
When the time comes for you to be judged, He will raise you with your spirit in tact.
Now, for those who go away into eternal punishment...well, I believe that the whole person will be completely destroyed...just like death, when it went into the lake of fire.
I do not insist that anyone else believe this...however, it is what I believe, based on the many, many verses that say things like "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" or "God is not willing that any should perish" or "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life", etc.
You do know that life is the opposite of death, right?

Jesus said, And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. Revelation says, And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshippers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. Do you believe it?

If they are eternally punished and the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever why did you say God would be cruel to torment them eternally? Do you retract that statement now?

 

[AmericanChristian91]

I think we could use some UR people in here, would be interesting to see why they believe what they do. Nice change from the constant Annihilitionism vs ECT arguments that have constantly been going on.

 

[MoreCoffee]

For those who want to reinterpret the meaning of punishment in Matthew 25:46 I offer this lexical definition

κόλασις

kólasis; gen. koláseōs, fem. noun from kolázō (G2849), to punish.

Punishment (Matthew 25:46), torment (1John 4:18), distinguished from timōría (G5098), punishment, which in Class. Gr. has the predominating thought of the vindictive character of the punishment which satisfies the inflictor's sense of outraged justice in defending his own honour or that of the violated law. Kólasis, on the other hand, conveys the notion of punishment for the correction and bettering of the offender. It does not always, however, have this strict meaning in the NT. In Mat_25:46, kólasis aiṓnios (G166), eternal, does not refer to temporary corrective punishment and discipline, but has rather the meaning of timōría, punishment because of the violation of the eternal law of God. It is equivalent to géenna (G1067), hell, a final punishment about which offenders are warned by our Lord (Mark 9:43-48). In this sense it does not have the implication of bettering one who endures such punishment. In kólasis, we have the relationship of the punishment to the one being punished while in timōría the relationship is to the punisher himself.

Syn.: ekdíkēsis (G1557), vengeance; epitimía (G2009), penalty; díkē (G1349), the execution of a sentence.

Ant.: áphesis (G859), forgiveness, dismissal, release; apolútrōsis (G629), redemption, deliverance; páresis (G3929), a passing by of death or sin.​

 

[MoreCoffee]

I think we could use some UR people in here, would be interesting to see why they believe what they do. Nice change from the constant Annihilitionism vs ECT arguments that have constantly been going on.

At least universal redemption acknowledges the inherent continuity of a human being's essence between death and the resurrection and after the last judgement. It is an error but it is not quite as extensive as soul-sleep coupled with annihilationism.

 

[Angelquill]

It's amazing how slippery you want to make a single statement by Jesus that takes only a few words to say, he said "they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." all this prevarication about the meaning of eternal is useless. The eternal punishment and the eternal life are both eternal, is your hope in Christ for eternal life or something less than eternal? Remember that if it is eternal life then it is also eternal punishment. The very thing you said would make God cruel. Surely Jesus isn't cruel, is he?

In the light of what Jesus said what do those of you who said God would be cruel to eternally torment people have to say? There it is, in your bible, Jesus saying that the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. So are you going to retract the complaint against God that you made? Or do you still stand by your words that eternal torment makes God cruel?

Given that you have a problem with word definitions, I'm going to let the "prevarication" thing roll off. However, for future reference, you just called me a liar. It is not a nice word.
Anyway, here is the definition of eternal:
e·ter·nal
iˈtərnl/
adjective
adjective: eternal

1. lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.
   "the secret of eternal youth"
   synonyms:everlasting, never-ending, endless, perpetual, undying, immortal, abiding, permanent, enduring, infinite, boundless, timeless; amaranthine
   "eternal happiness"
   
   
   
   antonyms:transient
   
   • (of truths, values, or questions) valid for all time; essentially unchanging.
     "eternal truths of art and life"
     
     
   • informal
     seeming to last or persist forever, especially on account of being tedious or annoying.
     "eternal nagging demands"
     synonyms:constant, continual, continuous, perpetual, persistent, sustained, unremitting, relentless, unrelieved, uninterrupted, unbroken, never-ending, nonstop, around/round-the-clock, endless, ceaseless "eternal vigilance"
     
     
     
     antonyms:intermittent
     
     
   • used to emphasize expressions of admiration, gratitude, or other feelings.
     "to his eternal credit, he maintained his dignity throughout"
     
     
   • used to refer to an everlasting or universal spirit, as represented by God.
     noun: Eternal
     
     
   
   
   

Origin

late Middle English: via Old French from late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus, from aevum ‘age.’


As I told you, it is an adjective, or defining word.
In this case, it means "endless".