Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[MoreCoffee]

Given that you have a problem with word definitions, I'm going to let the "prevarication" thing roll off. However, for future reference, you just called me a liar.

Sorry to cut your post, but when I quoted it the quote was HUGE because of that weird URLs in it and because of a heap of font, colour, and other tags for the text.

I know exactly what prevarication means, it calls what was written in your posts equivocating and less than an honest treatment of the words of Jesus Christ in the passage under review. It says nothing about you as a person, just about what you wrote. The point is to address the content of the post and not to play the person as you have so often done in your posts.

Anyway, back to the core question. You said that God would be cruel to eternally torment the wicked Jesus said they are eternally punished. Do you retract your statement about God being cruel if he eternally torments the wicked?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I emphatically disagree that being completely destroyed is not a punishment. I also disagree with those who claim that complete and permanent destruction is not eternal punishment. It lasts forever so it is eternal. It is the removal of the privilege of life so it is punishment. I'm sure you disagree, but you haven't proven that destruction is not punishment or that being destroyed for all eternity is not eternal punishment.

Wouldn't the opposite of "eternal life" be "eternal death"?

Jhn 10:28
“And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.




.

 

[James Is Back]

I think we could use some UR people in here, would be interesting to see why they believe what they do. Nice change from the constant Annihilitionism vs ECT arguments that have constantly been going on.

I'll tell you what they believe.

They believe that all will be forgiven by God including Lucifer. No torment or annihilation just a complete 100% reconciliation by God for everyone.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Jesus said, And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. Revelation says, And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshippers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. Do you believe it?

If they are eternally punished and the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever why did you say God would be cruel to torment them eternally? Do you retract that statement now?

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Day and night can have no reference to the eternal state. They gave no rest to those who ARE worshiping. It is the PRESENT participle and does NOT say those who WERE worshiping or DID worship the beast. The implication is the they will have no rest WHILE they are on earth in such a state.

I bet somebody was under EXTREME conviction about what they had done.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I'll tell you what they believe.

They believe that all will be forgiven by God including Lucifer. No torment or annihilation just a complete 100% reconciliation by God for everyone.

Ezekiel 28 about Satan:
I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God.
I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
I will cast thee to the earth.
I will lay thee before kings.
I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee and it shall devour thee.
I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth.
Thou shalt be a terror.
Never shalt thou be any more.

The last enemy to be destroyed is...DEATH. Must be more to be destroyed, huh?

 

[AmericanChristian91]

I'll tell you what they believe.

They believe that all will be forgiven by God including Lucifer. No torment or annihilation just a complete 100% reconciliation by God for everyone.

I would prefer to here what they believe (and the scripture they use to support their belief), from someone who actually does believe it, not from someone who is sure UR is wrong/unbiblical.

And I think their belief is not as simple as you make it sound.

 

[MoreCoffee]

First of all, it isn't the body you need to worry about. That's so much meat, and really not worth very much.
It is the spirit, or whatever you like to call the essence that is you that lives in the meat that is important.
Where is that during the time between your physical death and your resurrection? Why, it went back to God, Who gave it to you to begin with. Don't worry, He won't lose it.
When the time comes for you to be judged, He will raise you with your spirit in tact.
Now, for those who go away into eternal punishment...well, I believe that the whole person will be completely destroyed...just like death, when it went into the lake of fire.
I do not insist that anyone else believe this...however, it is what I believe, based on the many, many verses that say things like "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" or "God is not willing that any should perish" or "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life", etc.
You do know that life is the opposite of death, right?

Jesus said, And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. Revelation says, And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshippers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. Do you believe it?

If they are eternally punished and the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever why did you say God would be cruel to torment them eternally? Do you retract that statement now?

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Day and night can have no reference to the eternal state. They gave no rest to those who ARE worshiping. It is the PRESENT participle and does NOT say those who WERE worshiping or DID worship the beast. The implication is the they will have no rest WHILE they are on earth in such a state.

I bet somebody was under EXTREME conviction about what they had done.

Please, stop the irrelevant diversions. Jesus said that the wicked shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. It isn't rocket science. It's easy to grasp the words. The wicked go into everlasting punishment. Do you believe that?

 

[MoreCoffee]

I would prefer to here what they believe (and the scripture they use to support their belief), from someone who actually does believe it, not from someone who is sure UR is wrong/unbiblical.

And I think their belief is not as simple as you make it sound.

If you go to the unorthodox theologies subforum you will find some UR people with whom to discuss their beliefs.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Please, stop the irrelevant diversions. Jesus said that the wicked shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. It isn't rocket science. It's easy to grasp the words. The wicked go into everlasting punishment. Do you believe that?

YOU provided the quote from Revelation and I just gave perspective. If you do not know what it means...DON"T QUOTE.

 

[Angelquill]

Sorry to cut your post, but when I quoted it the quote was HUGE because of that weird URLs in it and because of a heap of font, colour, and other tags for the text.

I know exactly what prevarication means, it calls what was written in your posts equivocating and less than an honest treatment of the words of Jesus Christ in the passage under review. It says nothing about you as a person, just about what you wrote. The point is to address the content of the post and not to play the person as you have so often done in your posts.

Anyway, back to the core question. You said that God would be cruel to eternally torment the wicked Jesus said they are eternally punished. Do you retract your statement about God being cruel if he eternally torments the wicked?

What I tried to give you was a dictionary definition of the word "eternal".

"play the person"? Did you somehow think that I was not a person? Aren't you a person? Or am I truly speaking with a dalek, as I think you said earlier?
Anyway, I do not believe that God is cruel...but those who think that He would keep people alive and conscious forever to torment them to no purpose make Him sound very cruel. God is love. I don't think for one iota of one tiny microsecond that God ever thought that one up.
You don't want to know where I do think the idea came from...it is enough that I do not think God came up with it.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What I tried to give you was a dictionary definition of the word "eternal".

"play the person"? Did you somehow think that I was not a person? Aren't you a person? Or am I truly speaking with a dalek, as I think you said earlier?
Anyway, I do not believe that God is cruel...but those who think that He would keep people alive and conscious forever to torment them to no purpose make Him sound very cruel. God is love. I don't think for one iota of one tiny microsecond that God ever thought that one up.
You don't want to know where I do think the idea came from...it is enough that I do not think God came up with it.

I am truly impressed by how you avoid answering the most pertinent question.

Let me ask once more.

Do you retract your statement that God would be cruel to eternally torment the wicked?

Given that Jesus said that the wicked shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[MoreCoffee]

YOU provided the quote from Revelation and I just gave perspective. If you do not know what it means...DON"T QUOTE.

Please stop posting irrelevancies.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

..
Anyway, I do not believe that God is cruel...but those who think that He would keep people alive and conscious forever to torment them to no purpose make Him sound very cruel. God is love. I don't think for one iota of one tiny microsecond that God ever thought that one up.
You don't want to know where I do think the idea came from...it is enough that I do not think God came up with it.

I'm wondering why you think that God gave choices?
Everyone chooses to be with God or side with satan.
Jesus giving explicite wording on the danger involved
in choosing to side with God's enemy seems reason enough
to believe in His word.

 

[James Is Back]

I would prefer to here what they believe (and the scripture they use to support their belief), from someone who actually does believe it, not from someone who is sure UR is wrong/unbiblical.

And I think their belief is not as simple as you make it sound.

The fact we're discussion an unorthodox subject is bad enough in GT we don't need to bring them into this because it's still unorthodox.

As Coffee said you want to know what they believe. The unorthodox forum is a good place to start.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I'm wondering why you think that God gave choices?
Everyone chooses to be with God or side with satan.
Jesus giving explicite wording on the danger involved
in choosing to side with God's enemy seems reason enough
to believe in His word.

My sister in an unbeliever and she does NOT side with Satan either.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

My sister in an unbeliever and she does NOT side with Satan either.

I'm assuming you meant your sister is an unbeliever who doesn't side with satan ....
Judgement is the topic, not who is a believer.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I am truly impressed by how you avoid answering the most pertinent question.

Let me ask once more.

Do you retract your statement that God would be cruel to eternally torment the wicked?

Given that Jesus said that the wicked shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Aion (Greek) and olam (Hebrew) do NOT mean eternity.

The end of THESE ages is seen in 1 Corinthians 15:24 to the goal that God is all in all again in the moral realm (v 28).

Being IN Christ sets our life to be endless at resurrection.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The fact we're discussion an unorthodox subject is bad enough in GT we don't need to bring them into this because it's still unorthodox.

As Coffee said you want to know what they believe. The unorthodox forum is a good place to start.

Yes, this thread ought to be in the unorthodox theologies forum. Its theme is not orthodox Christian belief. The moderators probably will move it eventually.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Aion (Greek) and olam (Hebrew) do NOT mean eternity.

The end of THESE ages is seen in 1 Corinthians 15:24 to the goal that God is all in all again in the moral realm (v 28).

Being IN Christ sets our life to be endless at resurrection.

I asked you to stop posting the irrelevancies.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I'm assuming you meant your sister is an unbeliever who doesn't side with satan ....
Judgement is the topic, not who is a believer.

Sorry to have taken your words so literal. My apologies.