Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[AmericanChristian91]

So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?

Or what if a Christian was not sure on which belief in hell to accept (and therefore was not 100% sure that an eternal hell exists)?

Just curious on people's opinions here on whether or not it is heresy to not accept 100% the traditional view of hell.

PS: This may belong in the unorthodox section, thought I did want to see the opinion of people who are orthodox when it comes to this matter.

 

[Rhamiel]

to say there is no hell would be a heresy

to say you are not sure what hell is like or to say that you do not fully understand the teaching on hell or even that you have problems accepting such a teaching is not heresy, it is just having problems

 

[AmericanChristian91]

Thanks for your response.

 

[BobRyan]

So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?

Or what if a Christian was not sure on which belief in hell to accept (and therefore was not 100% sure that an eternal hell exists)?

Just curious on people's opinions here on whether or not it is heresy to not accept 100% the traditional view of hell.

PS: This may belong in the unorthodox section, thought I did want to see the opinion of people who are orthodox when it comes to this matter.

If name calling is the point -- then we can all call any group a 'name' when they differ with us.

There is a movie "Hell and Mr. Fudge" that describes one man's attempt to retain man-made traditions about eternal hell in the face of Matt 10:28 where God is the one who "destroys both body and soul in fiery hell" -- interesting movie that.

And Martin Luther appears to be one of the "heretics" that people love to condemn because he accepted Matt 10:28.

In more modern times -
John Wenham, Edward Fudge, Clark Pinnock and John Stott

And of course the entire Seventh-day Adventist Church. (20 million or so.. anyway)

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

to say there is no hell would be a heresy

to say you are not sure what hell is like or to say that you do not fully understand the teaching on hell or even that you have problems accepting such a teaching is not heresy

I agree with that much.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[abysmul]

So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?

According to the dictionary definition, it would depend upon that Christian's denomination.

 

[Hetta]

Why would it be heresy?

 

[KWCrazy]

Hell is the absence of God; the one place in all existence where He may not be found. Christians generally believe what they are taught until something greater is revealed to them. Are there conflicting statements about Hell? Absolutely yes, and absolutely no.

Hell was created for Lucifer and the angels with him who rebelled against God. Being eternal beings, they were condemned to eternal damnation. So hell is a very real place. The lake of fire is the best known component of Hell, but I believe that Hell is more than just that. I believe that outer darkness plays a part as well, for those who are cast away from Heaven but not to the eternal fire.

In Romans 2 we learn that "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." So the one who has never learned about Christ will be judged differently from those who have heard and have rejected Him. If there is different judgment, then there is a different fate and consequently multiple facets to Hell.

In Revelations we learn that some will be cast into the fire and consumed; the second death. This is the destruction of body and soul in Hell. It is a far better fate than eternal damnation. This shows that God's judgment is fair; that there isn't simply eternal reward or eternal damnation. Each of us will be judged according to our works.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes unto the Father but by me." By coming to the presence of God, we are able to actually behold our Creator. The question is, if Hell has segments, wouldn't Heave as well? What of the pious and good hearted person who lives his life by God's standards but that never learned of the Savior? I personally believe that it is possible for them to make it to Heaven, though they will never be in the actual presence of the Father. Romans 2 gives some support to this idea by saying "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them."

Jesus spoke more about Hell in the Gospels than He did about Heaven. He intended for us to know that it was a real place with dire consequence.

This is what I believe from what has been taught and what I have studied. The true nature of the Lord is revealed not by the fallible words of men, but in the perfect record of His word. Anyone stating opinions about the subject would be well suited to support their opinions with what is written in the Bible. We may all be wrong, but the word of the Lord is perfect.

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 10:28
28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezek 18:4
4 Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.

Rev 20
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.


Ezek 28
“You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 “You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The ruby, the topaz and the diamond;
The beryl, the onyx and the jasper;
The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald;
And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets,
Was in you.
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

Some will argue that it is ok to quote the bible - as long as you don't affirm it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hell is the absence of God; the one place in all existence where He may not be found. Christians generally believe what they are taught until something greater is revealed to them. Are there conflicting statements about Hell? Absolutely yes, and absolutely no.

Hell was created for Lucifer and the angels with him who rebelled against God. Being eternal beings, they were condemned to eternal damnation. So hell is a very real place. The lake of fire is the best known component of Hell, but I believe that Hell is more than just that. I believe that outer darkness plays a part as well, for those who are cast away from Heaven but not to the eternal fire............................

.

I tend to agree, especially after studying a lot on that covenantle parable/story of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16.
It seems as if, that is the only place, besides Revelation, that shows someone being tormented in "hell".
Have you or others read any commentaries on it? This is what comes up in a google search:

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...0.0l5.0.0.12.55403013...........0.la5M-YMeR9E

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
ABRAHAM'S BOSOM

.......................................................

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell.

Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading. In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching.......

CONCLUSION

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream Christian ministers to teach the "reality of hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Yeshua used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which caused them to reject him as the Messiah. They still suffer from that fate to this very day.

Yet the time is soon coming when God will pour on the Jews the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on their Messiah whom they pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a firstborn (Zec. 12:10).
.




.

 

[faroukfarouk]

There is the matter of unrepented and unforgiven sins; this is connected with the doctrine of hell.

 

[seeingeyes]

So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?

Or what if a Christian was not sure on which belief in hell to accept (and therefore was not 100% sure that an eternal hell exists)?

Just curious on people's opinions here on whether or not it is heresy to not accept 100% the traditional view of hell.

PS: This may belong in the unorthodox section, thought I did want to see the opinion of people who are orthodox when it comes to this matter.

No. That would not be a heresy. It's not a matter of opinion. Heresies have been outlined by the church from the beginning and the nature of hell was never a place that the church drew its line.

 

[seeingeyes]

Furthermore, Christianforums.com has overstepped its bounds by labeling such questions "unorthodox". If they had simply outlawed certain conversations in certain sections, it wouldn't be an issue, it's their website.

Instead, they decided to label these conversations that they disapprove of as being outside of the church, claiming them to be "non-Nicene". Perhaps no one read the Nicene creed before making such a determination. Sloppy at best, pharisaical at worst, it's a disgrace to the name of our Lord.

(I know that wasn't the purpose of your OP, but I felt that it needed to be said.)

 

[KWCrazy]

I tend to agree, espcially after studying a lot on that covenantl parable/story of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16.

I heard a sermon that elaborated on the fact that the damned in Hell know why they are there and know that they deserve to be there. That's why the rich man didn't beg to be freed from Hell, only that his torment be lessened. Either way, it isn't a place I have plans to visit.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Furthermore, Christianforums.com has overstepped its bounds by labeling such questions "unorthodox". If they had simply outlawed certain conversations in certain sections, it wouldn't be an issue, it's their website.

Instead, they decided to label these conversations that they disapprove of as being outside of the church, claiming them to be "non-Nicene". Perhaps no one read the Nicene creed before making such a determination. Sloppy at best, pharisaical at worst, it's a disgrace to the name of our Lord.

(I know that wasn't the purpose of your OP, but I felt that it needed to be said.)

Yeah, that is one thing I have never really understood concerning outlawing certain topics on certain threads here on GT. Something to consider I suppose.


.

 

[Timothew]

So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?

Or what if a Christian was not sure on which belief in hell to accept (and therefore was not 100% sure that an eternal hell exists)?

Just curious on people's opinions here on whether or not it is heresy to not accept 100% the traditional view of hell.

PS: This may belong in the unorthodox section, thought I did want to see the opinion of people who are orthodox when it comes to this matter.

I believe that the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment/torture in hell. Since it was Paul who wrote "For the wages of sin is death", I do not believe that it is heretical to believe that the wages of sin is death.

 

[James Is Back]

Hell is real but whether you believe it's a torturous place of eternal damnation and suffering or not it's a separation from God.

A separation from:

1.God,Christ and the Holy Spirit-The entire Godhead
2.Love
3.Peace
4.Happiness
5.Joy
6.Everything that is good
7.Your loved ones that made it to Heaven and the New Kingdom

That my friends is more frightening,nightmarish and scary than being burned or destroyed completely.

 

[Timothew]

Furthermore, Christianforums.com has overstepped its bounds by labeling such questions "unorthodox". If they had simply outlawed certain conversations in certain sections, it wouldn't be an issue, it's their website.

Instead, they decided to label these conversations that they disapprove of as being outside of the church, claiming them to be "non-Nicene". Perhaps no one read the Nicene creed before making such a determination. Sloppy at best, pharisaical at worst, it's a disgrace to the name of our Lord.

(I know that wasn't the purpose of your OP, but I felt that it needed to be said.)

I agree, and I had a long conversation with the bosses of Christianforums.com about that very issue. They weren't interested in backing away from their stance that Annihilationism is Unorthodox. Even though (as you have pointed out) the Nicene Creed is very Annihilionism-Friendly. I can fully affirm the Nicene Creed without reservation and remain an "Annihilationist".

I really believe that the CF bosses should rethink this. As we all should rethink hell.

Here's a website for anyone considering rethinking hell: Welcome to Rethinking Hell

 

[Timothew]

Hell is real but whether you believe it's a torturous place of eternal damnation and suffering or not it's a separation from God.

A separation from:

1.God,Christ and the Holy Spirit-The entire Godhead
2.Love
3.Peace
4.Happiness
5.Joy
6.Everything that is good
7.Your loved ones that made it to Heaven and the New Kingdom

That my friends is more frightening,nightmarish and scary than being burned or destroyed completely.

8.Life

(What really matters is not which is the most frightening, nightmarish and scary thing we can imagine. What really matters is what the Bible says, and the Bible says that the lost will perish and will not have eternal life.)

 

[Sean611]

Annihilationism is a heresy that started in restorationist circles and is today commonly found among Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses. I absolutely believe annihilationism to be a heresy.

I also have problems with the idea of universal reconciliation. A Christian can certainly hope and pray that all are saved, however, God is love AND he is justice. Would it be justice if a person rejected God their entire life and committed several evil acts with no care in the world and ended up in the same place as a person that spent their whole life working out their salvation with fear and trembling?

However, if a person believes in or hopes for universal reconciliation, while acknowledging that hell exists, is that person a heretic? It would seem to be a grey area. I think as long as the person doesn't teach that they know emphatically that hell is empty, then I don't see a real issue I guess. I do have a problem with people saying they know for sure that hell is empty and they teach this view to others.