Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[Angelquill]

Good grief. It's a good thing you don't get to make the rules.

Actually, CF does have a rule about how we are to treat each other.
So, really, it isn't my rule.

 

[Angelquill]

We are all supposed to play nice in these forums.
We are all equals here...nobody is any more equal than anyone else.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I swapped computers. Now I can post the passage where the Lord speaks explicitly about everlasting (or eternal) punishment. Mind you, I've quoted and cited this passage several times in this thread so far. It isn't obscure.

Matthew 25:31-46 RSV

(31) "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
(32) Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
(33) and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
(34) Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
(35) for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
(36) I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'
(37) Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
(38) And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
(39) And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?'
(40) And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'
(41) Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
(42) for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
(43) I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
(44) Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?'
(45) Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.'
(46) And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."​

if the righteous receive eternal life meaning an endless life then the wicked receive eternal punishment meaning endless punishment.

 

[Angelquill]

One...MIGHT??...think??

I know. But sometimes it is hard, when someone is used to putting themselves on a pedestal, to step down.
Baby steps, Faith...and we need to help him while he finds his footing down here on the ground with the rest of us mere Christians....

 

[Jonathan95]

You think that death will still exist after the judgment?
According to Revelation, the lof is the "second death".
Now, if the first death was the death of my body, which is no more, what do you think the second death is?

The bodies of the wicked will also be resurrected, but they wont have glorified bodies, but ugly bodies, and they'll be tormented with it in hell.

Why'd they need to be resurrected bodily and be judged again at the general judgement if they'll be annihilated anyways?

The second death is eternal torment in the lake of fire.

"And it will consume [destroy (ESV)] the glory of his forest and of his fruitful field,
Both soul and body; And they will be as when a sick man wastes away." (Isaiah 10:18 NKJV)

Now, is a man who's sick annihilated?

"consume" / "destroy" is in verb form there.

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28 NKJV)

"destroy" is in verb form there.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You think that death will still exist after the judgment?
According to Revelation, the lof is the "second death".
Now, if the first death was the death of my body, which is no more, what do you think the second death is?

Perhaps we need a thread on that.

Rev 2:11
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” '

Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Rev 20:14
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.fn

 

[seeingeyes]

I'll keep that to myself as it would go completely off topic.

I see annihilation as simply bad theology outside the teaching of the Church.
They why some have come to this conclusion is where the heresy resides.

But wait, are you saying that Annihilationism or Universalism or any other theology of hell is on that list of heresies?

Or are you saying that list is incomplete and that your church does teach that one version of hell is the unheretical one? (In which case, please post a source.)

 

[Angelquill]

I know what generally happens when something is destroyed.

I'm trying to think of some way the word "destroy" would not be a verb.
Of course, I don't speak Greek.

 

[MoreCoffee]

As usual the passage of scripture is ignored and a little chat about what annihilationists think the second death means or if there is any point in resurrecting the wicked if they are only going to be cast into the lake of fire ensues. Way to go. Ignore what Jesus said in Matthew 25:31-46 (specifically verse 46) and prattle on about your opinions. soon you'll be telling us that to believe in everlasting punishment implies that God is cruel.

 

[Angelquill]

I have a question.
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life."

Now, why, if I already have eternal life, and the question is where will I spend it, would God give me eternal life?

Suppose your kid goes off to college. You gave him a nice car.
Now when he gets to where he is going he moves in with a room mate, an, he finds that the only available free parking place is dangerous. There is a nice parking garage near by, but he doesn't have enough money left after he pays rent and buys the things he needs to afford the garage.
You want to help him.
Do you
a. give him a car
b. give him money for the parking garage

 

[By Faith Alone]

Why'd they need to be resurrected bodily and be judged again at the general judgement if they'll be annihilated anyways?

The second death is eternal torment in the lake of fire.

No such thing as the "general resurrection" or "General judgment". Death is death and not life in another form. Foreign to Scriptures.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I have a fact. Jesus said the wicked "will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Was that cruel?

 

[seeingeyes]

Personal opinion doesn't define truth or error nor does it define heresy. It Is the church that defines doctrine and heresy. Scripture has to be interpreted by the Church to define doctrine and heresy.

And the Church is not shy about stating outright what is heretical and what is not, yet all you have posted as a source is a excerpt from one church father who was writing on an entirely different topic. (The heresies he was writing against were all about gnosticism, not hell.)

It should be a simple enough thing to locate a source from the Church stating that x is the belief on hell that the Church holds, and y and z beliefs on hell are heretical.

 

[Angelquill]

MC, you do know that death is everlasting punishment, right?
Just to clear that up.

let me rephrase that:
Death could be construed as everlasting punishment.
I mean, you ain't coming back from this one...

 

[MoreCoffee]

What I do know is that whatever is eternal about life is equally eternal about punishment. That's why Jesus said that the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

 

[By Faith Alone]

What I do know is that whatever is eternal about life is equally eternal about punishment. That's why Jesus said that the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Perishing IS an eternal punishment.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If perishing is eternal then what is the resurrection? It's absurd to claim that death is eternal punishment.

 

[By Faith Alone]

If perishing is eternal then what is the resurrection? It's absurd to claim that death is eternal punishment.

We are saved from the corruption of death and the finality of it all, as believers. THAT is salvation realized,

 

[MoreCoffee]

If you're saved from death then why do you die? It's absurd to say that salvation saves one from death. obviously there's something more happening in both salvation and punishment when Jesus says of the wicked that they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

 

[By Faith Alone]

If you're saved from death then why do you die? It's absurd to say that salvation saves one from death. obviously there's something more happening in both salvation and punishment when Jesus says of the wicked that they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

The resurrection, and its value, are the furthest thing from your mind. You reason too much. KISS. "Keep it simple stupid".