Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[Angelquill]

If perishing is eternal then what is the resurrection? It's absurd to claim that death is eternal punishment.

physical death, yes.
But the final and irrevocable death of the spirit?
That's eternal.
As in, you will not be resurrected from this one. It's all over.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What's the difference between physical death and death of the spirit? Doesn't spirit mean 'breath'? Or do you believe that human beings have a spirit that exists apart from their physical bodies after physical death?

 

[Angelquill]

What's the difference between physical death and death of the spirit? Doesn't spirit mean 'breath'? Or do you believe that human beings have a spirit that exists apart from their physical bodies after physical death?

Yes, I do. I thought that was pretty universal?

 

[By Faith Alone]

What's the difference between physical death and death of the spirit? Doesn't spirit mean 'breath'? Or do you believe that human beings have a spirit that exists apart from their physical bodies after physical death?

Whatever God works with at resurrection is not revealed to us and conjecture must NOT take place of that fact. We are TOTALLY dead at death. Whatever mind God gives us at the point of resurrection must come from the mind of the New Nature given upon belief. He does NOT explain and if He did we probably would not recognize it. We are certainly a "new creature" with the new nature, but the old nature is with us until death do us part. (Romans 7)

 

[By Faith Alone]

Yes, I do. I thought that was pretty universal?

The last enemy to be destroyed is death. So death is not our enemy? Death is a gateway to life apart from resurrection?

 

[Angelquill]

Whatever God works with at resurrection is not revealed to us and conjecture must NOT take place of that fact. We are TOTALLY dead at death. Whatever mind God gives us at the point of resurrection must come from the mind of the New Nature given upon belief. He does NOT explain and if He did we probably would not recognize it. We are certainly a "new creature" with the new nature, but the old nature is with us until death do us part. (Romans 7)

​

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Maybe these notes on 2 Peter may help to clarify the Greek terms?

(1) Apollumi signifies to destroy utterly; in the middle voice, to perish, as in 3:6. The thought is not extinction but ruin, loss (not of being but of well-being). In Matt. 10:28; 22:7; Mark 12:9; Luke 17:27, 29; John 3:16; 10:28; 17:12; 1 Cor. 10:9-10; 2 Cor. 2:15; 4:3; 2 Thes. 2:10; and Jude 5, 11, this word unveils more concerning God's governmental judgment. In 3:9 it denotes the punishment of God's governmental discipline.

(2) Apoleia, akin to apollumi, indicates loss (of well-being, not of being), ruin, destruction, or (physical, spiritual, or eternal) perdition. It is rendered destructive and destruction in 2:1, and destruction in 2:3; 3:7, 16. The same word is used to denote the different results of God's varied judgments (see note 172 par. 2, in 1 Pet. 1). In cases such as those described in 2:1, 3; 3:7; John 17:12; Rom. 9:22; Phil. 1:28; 3:19; 2 Thes. 2:3; and Rev. 17:8, 11, it denotes eternal perdition. In cases such as those described in 3:16 (see note 4) and Heb. 10:39 (see note 2), it denotes the punishment of God's governmental discipline, not eternal perdition. In Matt. 7:13 and 1 Tim. 6:9 it denotes a principle used for any case.

(3) Phthora, denoting corruption unto destruction, the destruction that comes with corruption, a destroying by means of corrupting (in reference to morality, soul, and body). It is rendered corruption in 1:4 and 2:19, and destruction and corrupting in 2:12; its verb form is used in the future passive voice and is rendered will be destroyed in 2:12, and in the present passive voice, rendered are being corrupted, in Jude 10. Its significance can be further seen in Rom. 8:21; 1 Cor. 3:17 and notes 1 and 2; 15:33; 2 Cor. 7:2; 11:3; Gal. 6:8; Rev. 11:18; 19:2.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, I do. I thought that was pretty universal?

Is the spirit that survives apart from the physical body conscious? between physical death and the resurrection.

 

[shturt678s]

How does complete and utter destruction "allow Christians to have no fear of our Lord..."? I've heard those who disagree with the doctrine that the wicked will be completely destroyed use this argument before and frankly I am baffled by this argument. Don't you fear that which can completely destroy you? It is bad enough that one person uses this bizarre reasoning. When I see it over and over from the side that supports eternal conscious torment, I see a pattern of thought that is appalling. It is almost as if someone is whispering illogical arguments in yalls ears, and preventing you from seeing and hearing the truth.

The purpose for hell is punishment, ie, the Kingdom they helped to distress thus removing the forever punishment from the equation....sure Christians can be in and of the world during the week then the Sunday 1 hour routine then if don't make it, croak (dont' exist)...no punishment...

Eyeball "punishment" again at Matt.13:41b with a valid interpretation of course.

Only old Jack's opinion, not in or of the world during the week...24/7 Jesus and the Cross!!!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Whatever God works with at resurrection is not revealed to us and conjecture must NOT take place of that fact. We are TOTALLY dead at death. Whatever mind God gives us at the point of resurrection must come from the mind of the New Nature given upon belief. He does NOT explain and if He did we probably would not recognize it. We are certainly a "new creature" with the new nature, but the old nature is with us until death do us part. (Romans 7)

Whatever you concoct to explain your theory the fact remains that Jesus said of the wicked that they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

 

[Angelquill]

The last enemy to be destroyed is death. So death is not our enemy? Death is a gateway to life apart from resurrection?

Of course, death is my enemy. And no, I will not live again until He calls me.
What He resurrects, as you said, is a tad hazy...but it will be me, for all that.
For lack of a better word, this "essence of me" is my God-breathed "spirit".

The Bible does speak of our spirit within us, doesn't it?

 

[MoreCoffee]

What's the difference between physical death and death of the spirit? Doesn't spirit mean 'breath'? Or do you believe that human beings have a spirit that exists apart from their physical bodies after physical death?

Yes, I do. I thought that was pretty universal?

Of course, death is my enemy. And no, I will not live again until He calls me.
What He resurrects, as you said, is a tad hazy...but it will be me, for all that.
For lack of a better word, this "essence of me" is my God-breathed "spirit".

The Bible does speak of our spirit within us, doesn't it?

Backtracking?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Back to what Jesus said, the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. So what is eternal about this punishment remembering that it is eternal in the same way that life is eternal for the righteous?

 

[shturt678s]

The resurrection, and its value, are the furthest thing from your mind. You reason too much. KISS. "Keep it simple stupid".

If you could remove the Parables in light of Matt.13:11, etc., allegory, and etc. then we could all join in ing, however let's stick with the ing part allowing the Holy Spirit simply interpret for us.

Old ex-Navy, Jack's opinion

 

[Jonathan95]

MC, you do know that death is everlasting punishment, right?
Just to clear that up.

let me rephrase that:
Death could be construed as everlasting punishment.
I mean, you ain't coming back from this one...

How can death be an everlasting punishment, if they're annihilated. Then they cannot undergo a punishment.

No such thing as the "general resurrection" or "General judgment". Death is death and not life in another form. Foreign to Scriptures.

Yes, we will receive personal judgment after death, and then there's the general judgment when Jesus comes back and the bodies of the dead are raised.

 

[MoreCoffee]

How can death be an everlasting punishment, if they're annihilated. Then they cannot undergo a punishment.

Yes, we will receive personal judgment after death, and then there's the general judgment when Jesus comes back and the bodies of the dead are raised.

You are right, it is not punishment for an inanimate object to be inanimate. If annihilation takes an hour then the punishment would be an hour not everlasting.

 

[Angelquill]

Backtracking?

How so, MC?

 

[seeingeyes]

You are right, it is not punishment for an inanimate object to be inanimate. If annihilation takes an hour then the punishment would be an hour not everlasting.

By that reasoning, the death penalty should be considered a lesser sentence than life in prison.

 

[Angelquill]

Back to what Jesus said, the wicked will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. So what is eternal about this punishment remembering that it is eternal in the same way that life is eternal for the righteous?

what do you think "eternal" means?

 

[MoreCoffee]

How so, MC?

Is the spirit of a physically dead person conscious between death and the resurrection as the story about the rich man and Lazarus indicates?