Is modern Judaism a salvific religion?

Is modern Judaism salvific?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Don't know


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QuantaCura

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By modern Judaism I mean the post-Incarnation religion we call Judaism (not Messianic Judaism).

By salvific religion, I mean, objectively speaking, one can choose to practice modern Judaism instead of following Christ and still inherit the Kingdom of God.

(Also, for those who believe in such concepts, I don't mean salvation by Christ despite one's religion as may be possible for the righteous invincibly ignorant, etc.).
 

Maximus

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No.

It is not possible to be saved apart from Christ.

Modern Judaism is the descendant of the apostate Judaism that rejected Jesus Christ.

Its Talmud says the most insulting and blasphemous things about our Lord and His Mother, as well as many very racist things about non-Jews.
 
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ethereous

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Posted by me on another forum.

I would like your thoughts on all of this after you read it.

The little most known fact about Judaism is about their holy books. Many believe that the Jewish holy book is nothing more than simply what Christians call the Old Testament. What is not known is the fact that the Jewish holy book consists of the Talmud. In fact it is reguarded by Orthodox Jews as above even the Scriptures.

Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

There are two versions of the Talmudic books. The Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud.
The Babylonian Talmud supercedes the Jerusalem Talmud.

"The authority of the Babylonian Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of doubt the former is decisive." -R.C. Musaph-Andriesse, page 40 of the From Torah to Kabbalah: A Basic Introduction to the Writings of Judaism

This is shown with the black Ethiopian Jewish people which are discriminated against because they did not and still do not follow the Talmudic books as they never had them available.

From September 29, 1992 page 4 of the NY Times:
"The problem is that Ethiopian Jewish tradition goes no further than the Bible or Torah; the later Talmud and other commentaries that form the basis of modern traditions never came their way."

Because they are not traffickers in Talmudic tradition, the black Ethiopian Jews are discriminated against and have been forbidden by the Zionists to perform marriages, funerals and other services in the Israeli state.

Rabbi Joseph D. Soloveitchik is regarded as one of the most influential rabbis of the 20th century, the "unchallenged leader" of Orthodox Judaism and the top international authority on halakha (Jewish religious law). Soloveitchik was responsible for instructing and ordaining more than 2,000 rabbis, "an entire generation" of Jewish leadership.
The NY Times later speaks about Rabbi Joseph D. Soloveitchik.

From April 10, 1993 page 38 of the NY Times:
"Soloveitchik came from a long line of distinguished Talmudic scholars...Until his early 20s, he devoted himself almost exclusively to the study of the Talmud...He came to Yeshiva University's Elchanan Theological Seminary where he remained the pre-eminent teacher in the Talmud...He held the title of Leib Merkin professor of Talmud...sitting with his feet crossed in front of a table bearing an open volume of the Talmud."
Also in Britain's Jewish Chronicle of March 26, 1993 states that in religious school (yeshiva), Jews are "devoted to the Talmud to the exclusion of everything else."

The Ethiopians are not the only Jews who are discriminated against. There is also a small sect known as Karaites that try to only follow the Old Testament Scriptures. They have been historically persecuted by the Orthodox Jews.

Talmudic Teachings

Where a Jew Should Do Evil

Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Jews May Lie to Non-Jews

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

Insults Against Blessed Mary

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a harlot: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Gloats over Christ Dying Young

A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?--He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old."

Jesus in the Talmud

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement."

Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in Soncino footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery: "It is taught that on the eve of Passover Jesus was hung, and forty days before this the proclamation was made: Jesus is to be stoned to death because he has practiced sorcery and has lured the people to idolatry...He was an enticer and of such thou shalt not pity or condone."

Kallah 51a."The elders were once sitting in the gate when two young lads passed by; one covered his head and the other uncovered his head. Of him who uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that he is a *******. Rabbi Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a child conceived during a woman's menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he is both a ******* and a son of a niddah.

"They said, 'What induced you to contradict the opinion of your colleagues?' He replied, "I will prove it concerning him." He went to the lad's mother and found her sitting in the market selling beans.

"He said to her, 'My daughter, if you will answer the question I will put to you, I will bring you to the world to come.' (eternal life). She said to him, 'Swear it to me.'

"Rabbi Akiba, taking the oath with his lips but annulling it in his heart, said to her, 'What is the status of your son?' She replied, 'When I entered the bridal chamber I was niddah (menstruating) and my husband kept away from me; but my best man had intercourse with me and this son was born to me.' Consequently the child was both a ******* and the son of a niddah.

"It was declared, '..Blessed be the God of Israel Who Revealed His Secret to Rabbi Akiba..."

Sanhedrin 105a-b. Balaam [Jesus] fornicated with his jackass.

Talmud on Christians and Christian Books

Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.

Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament ("uncanonical books") will have no portion in the world to come.

Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.

Dr. Israel Shahak of Hebrew University reports in Jewish History, The Jewish Religion on page 21 that Israelis burned hundreds of New Testament Bibles in occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980.

More Teachings of the Talmud

Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.

Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given.

Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.

Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.

Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a harlot in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. On one of his whorehouse romps, Rabbi Eleazar leanred that there was one particular prostitute residing in a whorehouse near the sea, who would receive a bag of money for her services. He took a bag of money and went to her, crossing seven rivers to do so. During their intercourse the prostitute farted. After this the harlot told Rabbi Eleazar: "Just as this gas will never return to my anus, Rabbi Eleazar will never get to heaven."

Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.

Gittin 70a. The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic."

Gittin 69b. To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew should "take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog's excrement as it loosens the limbs."

Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.

Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.

Abodah Zarah 70a. The question was asked of the rabbi whether wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it was defiled, due to the fact that the thieves might have been gentiles (a gentile touching wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to worry, that the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the thieves in Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews. (Also cf. Gemara Rosh Hashanah 25b).

Just a sample, more detailed information including more Rabbi quotes can be found here. The entire Talmud is online for reading at Come-and-here.com.
 
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Akathist

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Maximus said:
No.

It is not possible to be saved apart from Christ.

Modern Judaism is the descendant of the apostate Judaism that rejected Jesus Christ.

Its Talmud says the most insulting and blasphemous things about our Lord and His Mother, as well as many very racist things about non-Jews.
:thumbsup:
 
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OnTheWay

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ethereous said:
Wouldn't that depend on if you consider revising history to be racist?

Yes, when the sole purpose of the historical revision is to cast National Socialism in better light. Thus the purpose has nothing to do with history and everything to do with making the racialist philosophy of Adolf Hitler seem less terrible.
 
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OnTheWay

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Gwenyfur said:
It should be noted that not all Jews follow the Talmud...

That's not entirely accurate, the Talmud is a collection of Rabbinical comments on the Torah which serve the same function that presedence does in a court of law. Thus any practicing Jew must be influenced by either of the Talmuds to some degree. Now it is entirely possible to say that it is consistent for a Jew to reject parts of either Talmud. Many Jews clearly do reject parts of the Talmud that say terrible things about Jesus Christ and the Theotokos. The notion I think you are objecting to, correctly I might add, is that the Talmud is the Jewish equal of Holy Scripture to Christians. Clearly that is not the case and a much better example would be to say that the Talmud is equal to the theological opinions of Christian theologians.
 
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Gwenyfur

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OnTheWay said:
That's not entirely accurate, the Talmud is a collection of Rabbinical comments on the Torah which serve the same function that presedence does in a court of law. Thus any practicing Jew must be influenced by either of the Talmuds to some degree. Now it is entirely possible to say that it is consistent for a Jew to reject parts of either Talmud. Many Jews clearly do reject parts of the Talmud that say terrible things about Jesus Christ and the Theotokos. The notion I think you are objecting to, correctly I might add, is that the Talmud is the Jewish equal of Holy Scripture to Christians. Clearly that is not the case and a much better example would be to say that the Talmud is equal to the theological opinions of Christian theologians.

Please, don't put words in my mouth.

There are several Jews who have rejected the rabbinical teaching of the Rabbi's of old and adhere, strictly I might add, to the Torah.

That percentage is growing ever greater each day.

But, yes you are correct in that the Jews who do adhere to the Talmud *do* cling to it as liturgical churches cling to their chants and traditions
 
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OnTheWay

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Gwenyfur said:
Please, don't put words in my mouth.

There are several Jews who have rejected the rabbinical teaching of the Rabbi's of old and adhere, strictly I might add, to the Torah.

That's odd, I haven't heard about Jews taking to stoning adulters or beheading homosexuals of late. The rejection of the Talmuds in Judaism would be quite silly, many of the Rabbis comments are quite Godly.

That percentage is growing ever greater each day.

In light of orthodoxy Judaism becoming virually non-existant I find that a little more than hard to believe.

But, yes you are correct in that the Jews who do adhere to the Talmud *do* cling to it as liturgical churches cling to their chants and traditions

Well it's good to see that some Jews still worship God, just as Liturgical Churches still bother about worshipping God. When we give over to self centered insturction in the place of worship we make ourselves useless in creation.
 
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lmnop9876

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Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:10-12)
"No man comes to the Father but by Me."
pretty clear.
 
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johnd

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True Judaism is what Christianity was intended to be:

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


John 4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. 19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise {Jewishness**} is not of men, but of God.

**see Genesis 29:35 for the definition of Jew / Judah

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

It was never the Roman Catholic Church's place to de-Judaize the Church++. The Church is Israel, Spirit Israel (the Israel of God see Galatians 6:16). The sin of the Judaizers the Apostle Paul spoke against was the atempt to imposed the Old Covenant on the New Covenant. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 again about the distinction between the two. But the Olive Tree (Romans 11:16-26) remains the same and is the Israel mentioned in verse 26.

++ This is not to denounce or bash Roman Catholicism. Roman Cattholicism like Protestantism and non-denominationalism have simply gotten off course a bit (especially on this matter).
 
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johnd

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" GOD'S WORD TRANSCENDS SCRIPTURE, otherwise the entirety of God would be contained in the Bible."

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:3 All things were made by him {the Word}; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Yes, I would say there is more to the Word of God than the Bible.

But let's not misunderstand the importance of the Bible:

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Psalm 119 is a good read on this matter.

Without the Bible, we would not know who or what God is, that there is a hell to be avoided and a heaven to gain, and so on.
 
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