is metal music a sin? cuz if it is i'm screwed.

[woobadooba]

I'm a music journalist. That's how I pay for textbooks at school. I'm also hoping to get an internship at Rolling Stone next year. My music collection is a constantly expanding assortment of about 1000 cds and 200 vinyls. So I'm not completely ignorant on the subject of music.

I'm also an armchair theologian and enthusiast of philosophy and formal logic. Both of these topics would agree: Music does not make people violent. As a result of listening to music people can do violent things, but the music itself is not responsible. To say music makes people violent is like shooting someone and blaming the gun. People are responsible for their actions, not whatever album they were listening to at the time of those actions.

You may be a music journalist, but for the simple fact that you are unaware of what I'm talking about here, this tells me that you really don't know as much about music as you think you do. You see, certain types of music can cause a person to become violent. In fact, there is even music that can arouse sexual feelings, and music that can cause seizures, or heart palpitations. And of course there is music that can invoke relaxation. In other words, music can influence and control a person's emotional state.

Now then, you can try to come off as being one who knows all there is to know about music, but the truth is: You can't deny experience, especially the one that I had listening to certain types of music, which did in fact cause me to become violent. Or, you can be more open minded about this and learn something.

 

[jasperbound]

Then you don't know much about music. Certain types of music can cause a person to become extremely violent.

Slow music agitates me. Therefore, all slow music is sinful.

 

[philN]

I never claimed to know all there is to know about music; I'm just saying that I'm not ignorant about such things.

Here's what I'm getting at: there are lots of types of foods out there. Some cause you to gain weight, some make you tired, some give you strength. Let's say I go to McDonalds and eat a ton of hamburgers and balloon up to an astronomical size. By your logic, I can say that the hamburgers made me fat. But in reality, the hamburgers didn't make me fat, I did when I decided to eat an outrageous amount of the hamburgers.

The same thing goes with music. You can say that certain types of music make people do violent things, but in reality, it's the people who decide to do the violent things that are to blame -- first, for doing the violent things, and second, for not knowing their own personal boundaries, and third, for not having self-control. You should also bear in mind that just because a certain type of music makes you violent, does not mean that it will make every person violent. Someone with a discerning mind could easily approach this "violent" music and not be affected by it, but perhaps someone who is more impressionable or who cannot control himself around it cannot (and they should probably stay away from it, if they can't handle it).

Discernment and knowing your own boundaries is key. No particular genre of music is more evil or violent than another. Music is music. It is not good or bad.

Now, if you would like to engage in an actual dialogue or discussion where we each bring up points and counterpoints to discuss the issue, I would happily consent. But if you respond with something along the lines of "You don't know what you are talking about", then I'm not sure it would be worth my time to pursue this any further.

 

[woobadooba]

Slow music agitates me. Therefore, all slow music is sinful.

Now this is the type of response that I would expect in a place like this. Do the research, and you will find that what I've been saying here is true.

Music is much more powerful than you think it is.

 

[woobadooba]

Now, if you would like to engage in an actual dialogue or discussion where we each bring up points and counterpoints to discuss the issue, I would happily consent. But if you respond with something along the lines of "You don't know what you are talking about", then I'm not sure it would be worth my time to pursue this any further.

Oh, you mean like telling me that I am being ridiculous?

Look, this isn't worth my time. If you don't want to believe me than that isn't my problem. I would encourage you however, to delve into this subject more deeply.

You may be surprised by what you find, if you take an honest look at it.

 

[philN]

Music is very powerful, but it's not like Satan himself has cornered some specific genre to make people into his impenetrable army of the undead.

God created everything. And because we are made in his image to create music is to be like God. Whether people acknowledge God or not, when they create they do so because God created them to be creators. In that sense, any genre with any lyrics can bring glory to God when it is listened to with an understanding that everything -- even the crazy "violent" music or whatever the hell it's actually called -- comes from God. To say the contrary would be gnosticism. Which is a heresy dating back to before the apostolic church.

 

[philN]

Oh, you mean like telling me that I am being ridiculous?

I never said that you were ridiculous. I rarely resort to ad hominem attacks, and when I do it's in jest. What I did say was believing certain types of music are innately violent/evil is ridiculous (and in some cases heretical).

 

[woobadooba]

Music is very powerful, but it's not like Satan himself has cornered some specific genre to make people into his impenetrable army of the undead.

God created everything. And because we are made in his image to create music is to be like God. Whether people acknowledge God or not, when they create they do so because God created them to be creators. In that sense, any genre with any lyrics can bring glory to God when it is listened to with an understanding that everything -- even the crazy "violent" music or whatever the hell it's actually called -- comes from God. To say the contrary would be gnosticism. Which is a heresy dating back to before the apostolic church.

This type of response further discloses that you really don't know what you are talking about.

And yes, Satan is the inspiration of certain types of music. I know this to be true because I used to listen to it, and I know what type of impact it had not only on me, but everyone else I knew that listened to it too.

Again, I suggest that you do some more research.

 

[woobadooba]

I never said that you were ridiculous. I rarely resort to ad hominem attacks, and when I do it's in jest. What I did say was believing certain types of music are innately violent/evil is ridiculous (and in some cases heretical).

Post # 38:

I'm sorry, but this is among the most ridiculous claims that I have ever heard.

Since I am the one to whom you were addressing, saying this, is no different than implying that I am being ridiculous, since I am the one who made the claim.

 

[philN]

Just because an artist is inspired by Satan does not mean that God is not still ultimately in control of it.

God is completely sovereign over everything. There's an old hymn called This Is My Father's World. That title is completely true. He made this world and everything within it only exists because God allows it to exist. Certainly someone can write a song to Satan, but think about this: every note that they use in the music, every word that they write, every instrument that they play, is only there because God first created music, God first made language and communication, and God made the elements of earth which could be crafted into instruments. Not to mention the fact that the act of creating is something that humans can only do because they are created in the image of God (no other created being is a creator of art for art's sake).

You keep telling me to do research. Well, to be honest, I have. In fact, last semester, my final paper was on Christianity and Aesthetics, in which I compared differing views on Christianity, Culture, and Creation.

If you really do not believe that God is bigger than all of these crazy genres then I recommend reading:

Walking On Water by Madeleine L'Engle
the Mind of the Maker by Dorothy Sayers
Where In the World Is the Church by Michael Horton
or the Bible (wink)

 

[philN]

Since I am the one to whom you were addressing, saying this, is no different than implying that I am being ridiculous, since I am the one who made the claim

I said that the claim was ridiculous. That is all. Just because you gleaned more from it then was intended does not put me at fault.

Seriously, I feel I've raised some valid points, but rather than responding to them you are arguing trivial semantics and claiming that I don't know what I am talking about because I have not listened to music and had an unsatiable desire to punch a kitten.

 

[woobadooba]

I said that the claim was ridiculous. That is all. Just because you gleaned more from it then was intended does not put me at fault.

Seriously, I feel I've raised some valid points, but rather than responding to them you are arguing trivial semantics and claiming that I don't know what I am talking about because I have not listened to music and had an unsatiable desire to punch a kitten.

But what could be more valid than the point that music can influence and control a person's emotional state of being?

Just try to be more open minded, please.

 

[jasperbound]

Now this is the type of response that I would expect in a place like this. Do the research, and you will find that what I've been saying here is true.

It's true. Slow music does agitate me. So, therefore, it must be sinful, right? Or is it only what agitates YOU that's sinful, God?

Music is much more powerful than you think it is.

I agree with you that music affects our emotions. But it affects us all differently.

 

[philN]

And I agree. Music is very powerful. I am often affected emotionally when I listen to music. Some songs make me sad; others make me happy; others make me angry. BUT they do not make me violent because I can discern what is right and wrong and objectively decide not to act out of anger.

This is why I can listen to a song by Eminem or Elliott Smith or [insert dark lyricist here] without going out and killing someone. Discernment.

 

[woobadooba]

It's true. Slow music does agitate me. So, therefore, it must be sinful, right? Or is it only what agitates YOU that's sinful, God?



I agree with you that music affects our emotions. But it affects us all differently.

You are confusing a norm for a personal preference. There is music that has been composed for the purpose of manipulating a person's emotions.

There IS both good AND evil music. It seems to me that you think all music is good, or that all music just simply IS, and can't be placed in a class of good or evil. Well, you are mistaken if you think this way.

I should have known better than to get into a discussion with people on the topic of music.

 

[12volt_man]

I've met people that say they are Christians yet they do drugs, play online shooting games, gamble, etc.

How does playing FPS games and gambling mean that somebody isn't a Christian?

And there are Christian metal bands, but how do you guys look at people like this? Do you look at them as though they are a bad reflection of a Christian?

No, just bad reflections of a musician.

And how did December 25 become a time where you give people presents and the whole Santa thing?

Are these bad things?

 

[nephilimiyr]

The adrenaline rush.

Ok thanks, I knew there had to be something that gets kids into that music. It's not the easiest music to listen to. I hate to say this because when I was a teenager growing up I used to laugh at my mom for saying this too but it all just sounds like noise to me, and my heros were Jimi Hendrix, Zepplin, Black Sabath etc., etc.

I do love alot of the new Christian rock coming out now though like Demon Hunter, Pillar, Poor Man's Rich's. I got to say that there is some good stuff coming out now days. Back in the 70's and early 80's there was no such thing as Christian rock as a genre. I actually think that christian kids are lucky now days, they got so much to chose from according to tastes where all I really had was Petra.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Slow music agitates me. Therefore, all slow music is sinful.

Studies have shown that music can sooth people and help them relax, can stimulate the thought processes in our brain, and agitate and or excite the person who is listening. Music elicites emotion and emotional responses and it is reguarded as a fact. Whether that emotional response will cause someone to commit a violent crime or not the jury is still out but I think I can tell you for sure that music can cause someone to commit an act of kindness or love.
If music has the power to influence people to love and commit an act of love, and it does, then I'm more than sure it equally has the influence to cause a person to hate and commit violence. To disagree with that to me is ignoring the law of balance.

 

[12volt_man]

Back in the 70's and early 80's there was no such thing as Christian rock as a genre. I actually think that christian kids are lucky now days, they got so much to chose from according to tastes where all I really had was Petra.

I disagree. I think that the 70's and 80's were actually a much better period for Christian rock.

I don't believe that bands as original as Daniel Amos or the 77s or folks like that could ever make it today.

Just look at all of the people making good, original music who have now been dumped by the Christian music industry.

Jerome Olds put out the finest piano driven rock this side of Bruce Hornsby, but Nashville simply could not handle a pudgy, thirty something guy who could not be easily pigeonholed.

Same with Randy Stonehill, one of the fouders and one of the most consistently creative artists of the Christian rock movement. He's been dropped by his last two labels and has been forced to go the indie route.

Look at things from where I'm sitting. As a mid-thirties, college educated, white male with a wide variety of musical influences, there is no place for me to go to hear Christian music, much less Christian rock.

Everything now is made for teenyboppers, secretaries, old ladies, or urban audiences. Meanwhile, people like me are left out in the cold.

Back in the eighties, there were many artists for somebody like me to identify with and enjoy. Not so, now.

The seventies were, in spite of their unfair reputation, a tremendous era for music, especially Christian music. The production standards may not have been as high as their mainstream counterparts and the songwriting may have been a little simplistic, but there was something very engaging about the innocence of it all. Nashville had not yet gotten their dirty hooks into Christian music and it was building, in a roundabout way, on the back of the Texas Outlaw music, which emphasized independence and artist autonomy.

To listen to "Shotgun Angel" today, Daniel Amos was keeping steady pace with their mainstream contemporaries.

I just don't see those things happening today.

But that's just me.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Just because an artist is inspired by Satan does not mean that God is not still ultimately in control of it.

LOL, I'm sorry but that is just dumb. Read the Bible and look at all the references where God was in control of Satan or evil and still let disaster happen. Satan and the powers of hell do have a certain amount of freedom to do as they wish within God's control. Since the first sin in the Garden of Eden it has always been this way. This all doesn't mean that it's wise for you to then play with the toy, the toy being Satan's music.