is metal music a sin? cuz if it is i'm screwed.

[nephilimiyr]

And how do you know that all of these demons have the capability to destroy souls? Throughout the Bible there are about 70 references to demons, all of which refer to demons as either a false god or something that people are possessed by. I'm not positive, but I don't think either of those things have the power to destroy a soul. At least, I don't see scriptural evidence for it.

Paul says that we are in spiritual warfare, he says we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities, powers, spiritual wickedness in high places, with the rulers of the darkness. That's how I know. If these beings have no capability of destroying souls then why does Paul say we are to guard ourselves against them?

Ephesians 6:11, Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Apparently you don't believe there is any wiles of the devil you should be concerned about?

Eph. 6:13, Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Eph. 6:16, Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Apparently you don't believe that there are beings who are slinging fiery darts at you?

You may chose not to believe that there are spiritual beings that don't mean you any harm but the Bible totally contradicts you. I believe that we were all made for war, to battle these evil spirits.

Calm down. I never accused you of making that claim. I was stating facts. Satan is a created being. He is not some cosmic mind-altering overlord. He is a created being.

There was no reason for you to state those facts PhilN.

I also never said that we cannot be influenced by music. You are putting words in my mouth. What I said was that we have to be discerning in what we listen to. If the Holy Spirit tells me that I should not be listening to a certain band or album or genre, then I should listen. But if I do not have a conviction about it, then there is nothing wrong with it. That's the Holy Spirit's job.

If you play with fire eventually you will get burned. I don't need the Holy Spirit to teach me that.

I don't believe all things are good. I believe that all THINGS (meaning objects) are amoral -- neither good, nor evil. Musical notes are not good or evil. Chairs are not good or evil.

Well you have given me reason to believe that that is what you think.

I never claimed that musical notes are evil. I have said that the lyrics, that openly goes against or contradicts the words of God or the things of God is evil. So far all you have done is argued with me on this.

Words are not good or evil.

Words mean things PhilN. They either profess and reflect good or they profess and reflect evil. Words are either a spoken or written form of a thought and or idea. Thoughts and ideas most certainly can be either good or evil.

In reality, evil does not enter the picture until the music or chair or words cause you to sin.

So you see nothing evil in the lyrics of a song if it says that there is no God but ourselves? You don't see the evil in that? Wow. Sorry but in reality evil is already in the picture if the idea behind the music is to get you to forget about God.

Wow. I had no idea that the Holy Spirit came to you and told you about what convictions I had regarding music. I had no idea that that was part of His job description. Enlightening.

I don't know what you are listening to but as long as you are argueing with me I'm narrowing it down.

I think you maybe under the mistaken idea that unless the phrase "Satan, I worship you" is in the lyrics then there is no worship Satan going on. To worship Satan all you have to do is glorify either the things of Satan like lies and denying God or glorifying yourself.

Seriously. This whole topic is exactly like meat sacrificed to idols. Paul writes that there is meat that has been sacrficed to idols, false gods. He says that some people can still eat the food and not be affected by it or falter in their walk with God. He also says that some people are not able to do that, because some people have different convictions. Paul says that the stronger brother should not cause the weaker brother to sin by eating it in his presence; but other than that he is free to eat it so long as the Holy Spirit does not convict him.

That's all fine and good but that doesn't justify listening to music that denies God and makes a mockery of His ways.

Apparently you have skipped over what Paul said about things that may not have been forbidden for us but still are not good for us? What, pray tell, does he say about that PhilN?

The same thing can be said with this topic. Let's say there is a song that has been dedicated to Satan. Some people can listen to it and not be affected by it or falter in their walk with God. However, some people will associate the music with Satan. For them it is wrong to listen to the music, but it is not their place to force their personal convictions on the other people who have not been convicted.

Sorry but I have to voice my opinions. You may believe I have no right to voice my opinions but I'm going to do so anyway whether you like it or agree with it or not.

Well for starters, I never said that I listened to music that glorifies murder, death, rape, or other vile and disgusting blasphemies against God. You just assumed I did.

That's all I have said and again, you are here argueing with me. I assume since you wanted to argue with me then therefore you don't see anything wrong with such music.

This whole debate was actually initially about music that does not have lyrics -- woobadooba claims that music itself has the ability to be evil. However, since you brought it up: is it wrong to listen to things that talk about murder and death and rape and vile and disgusting things? I don't think so. In fact, you get a lot worse than that when you read the Bible. There is incest, murder, rape, homosexual gang rape, and the list goes on. Is it wrong to read those passages of the Bible? No. Is it wrong to listen to things that discuss those topics? No. Is it wrong to actually go out and do those things? Yes. That is where sin enters the picture.

Please! there is a big difference between what those songs do with those subjects and what the Bible does with them. One glorifies such actions while the other condemns such actions and warns you about what will happen to you if you continue to glorify and or commit such actions.

Again, if you engage yourself in such things you are in effect partaking in the glorification of those things. You can't say you are seperated from the glorification of those things while you are sitting there and enjoying all of it.

Paul says that we are to test everything and cling to the good. If I can listen to music and discern what is good and bad, and hold onto the good, who are you to tell me that I am not wrong? You do not know me. You do not know my heart. The same God that said "Thou shalt not murder" said, "Thou shalt not judge". And to be honest, I think it is completely inappropriate for you to assume that because my personal convictions are different than yours, that I am automatically at fault.

There is nothing good about music that glorifies sin. Nothing good in it at all. How you can sit here and argue that glorifying sin is good is beyond me. You apparently don't want anyone to tell you that that is wrong.

I know my boundaries when it comes to music. I cannot listen to music with violent lyrics or that talks in detail about sex.

Then why are you argueing with me? I could careless what your debate is with someone else. I have made myself clear, that the lyrics to songs if they don't glorify God and his ways is no good for you and you have argued that with me since we started talking.

And just because a song doesn't get into details that may turn your stomach still doesn't mean the song is not promoting sinful behavior and when you go out and buy such music you are in effect promoting that sinful behavior.

 

[cathromang]

1. I am not silly

2. I realize that evil is not a thing, but a concept, which denotes the idea of an absence of that which is purely good--meaning God.

3. With that said, if the music is not elevating the thoughts to God, but impairing the mind to such a degree that it encumbers the listener from hearing the voice of the Spirit, then yes, it is evil, because it is not of God.

Milk does not elevate my thoughts to God and I do not think of God while I drink it therefore milk is evil.

Sounds silly to me.

 

[woobadooba]

Milk does not elevate my thoughts to God and I do not think of God while I drink it therefore milk is evil.

Sounds silly to me.

Here we go again...

But milk contains nutrients that your body needs to foster good health. Therefore, by drinking it you are caring for your body and thus honoring God.

People!

We are not talking about hygiene or nutrition here, but music. Let's stay on topic please!

 

[cathromang]

Here we go again...

But milk contains nutrients that your body needs to foster good health. Therefore, by drinking it you are caring for your body and thus honoring God.

People!

We are not talking about hygiene or nutrition here, but music. Let's stay on topic please!

But if I dance to fast music I work out my body physically - caring for my body and honoring God.

do you give yet? I could do this all day...

 

[woobadooba]

But if I dance to fast music I work out my body physically - caring for my body and honoring God.

do you give yet? I could do this all day...

No, you can't do this all day, because you are attempting to amalgamate a positive with a negative.

If you are exercising while impairing your mind at the same time, then how does that exercise honor God?

Now, I can see that you are just debating for the sake of arguing, but not for the purpose of edifying. Let's be more mature about this now, or is that too much to ask?

 

[woobadooba]

Actually, I'm done here, because this discussion is just not proving to be fruitful.

 

[cathromang]

No, you can't do this all day, because you are attempting to amalgamate a positive with a negative.

If you are exercising while impairing your mind at the same time, then how does that exercise honor God?

Now I can see that you are just debating for the sake of arguing, but not for the purpose of edifying.

Let's be more mature about this now, or is that too much to ask?

well, obviously you've never danced before - you don't really use your mind to dance you just do it. If you think about how you're dancing you end up looking like a white boy with no sense of timing (and I'm a white boy). Now you'll say something like "well, if you don't use your mind then you're not serving God" and then I could say well how do you "meditate upon the Lord" and we could go that route.
Or I could talk about Jewish legend stating God sang the universe into existence (do you think He sang about Himself? - interesting question huh?)

see, we can go on and on because that's what happens in these forums because everyone takes themselves ever so seriously, being of learned education and pomposity, so therefore we must continually show others the errors of their ways because God (uh) has reveeled (uh) it to uhs....(tv preacher impersonation there) and we have read many many books so therefore the Spirit in me is much much greater than the Spirit in you and my church is the only one licensed and accredited by the Lord God Almighty and in the end you'll see because you and the heathen catholicks will all feel the fire of God's wrath and my opinion and the spirit in me will be the only one able to say I'm the best for you Lord and he'll look down and say thanks for putting all those crazies who pray to me also in their place for me come sit at my right hand and drink some grape juice because we certainly don't drink wine up here and can we get those darn angels to turn down that infernal racket...that...that...devil music and thank goodness you and yours were the only ones able to interpret my book that was maybe inspired maybe not only I know for sure but you guessed which parts were and which parts weren't unlike the others and you alone correctly guessed what it meant as well and I know I know you tried to tell them that they were all wrong but those blockheads just wouldn't listen would they? but they were too busy doing stuff like eating meat and drinking wine/coca-colas, and daincing before me like I like that stuff but you alone have kept yourself clean and not let even a pimple on your....rear and that's the kind of peoples I want up here those that have already made themselves holy without my help and kept themselves free from sin like me and read lots and lots and lots of books about me so you became smart and could figure out what I was thinking about purty near everything.....(BREATH!)

Hey these new mountain dew energy drinks are pretty good!

 

[holo]

Metal rocks.

Aggression isn't the same as anger, and anyway, if you're angry, angry music helps. To suggest that metal or aggressive/depressive music in itself is bad, is like saying sadness is bad. Which it is, in a way, but the bible is full of sadness and despair and craziness and rock 'n roll, though rock and metal as we know it hadn't been invented yet.

 

[CrownedInTerror]

|= |_| [ |< |_| \/\/00|3@ |_| $+|_||0 |[) |<|_||\|+

 

[blueSKYpilot]

well, obviously you've never danced before - you don't really use your mind to dance you just do it. If you think about how you're dancing you end up looking like a white boy with no sense of timing (and I'm a white boy). Now you'll say something like "well, if you don't use your mind then you're not serving God" and then I could say well how do you "meditate upon the Lord" and we could go that route.
Or I could talk about Jewish legend stating God sang the universe into existence (do you think He sang about Himself? - interesting question huh?)

see, we can go on and on because that's what happens in these forums because everyone takes themselves ever so seriously, being of learned education and pomposity, so therefore we must continually show others the errors of their ways because God (uh) has reveeled (uh) it to uhs....(tv preacher impersonation there) and we have read many many books so therefore the Spirit in me is much much greater than the Spirit in you and my church is the only one licensed and accredited by the Lord God Almighty and in the end you'll see because you and the heathen catholicks will all feel the fire of God's wrath and my opinion and the spirit in me will be the only one able to say I'm the best for you Lord and he'll look down and say thanks for putting all those crazies who pray to me also in their place for me come sit at my right hand and drink some grape juice because we certainly don't drink wine up here and can we get those darn angels to turn down that infernal racket...that...that...devil music and thank goodness you and yours were the only ones able to interpret my book that was maybe inspired maybe not only I know for sure but you guessed which parts were and which parts weren't unlike the others and you alone correctly guessed what it meant as well and I know I know you tried to tell them that they were all wrong but those blockheads just wouldn't listen would they? but they were too busy doing stuff like eating meat and drinking wine/coca-colas, and daincing before me like I like that stuff but you alone have kept yourself clean and not let even a pimple on your....rear and that's the kind of peoples I want up here those that have already made themselves holy without my help and kept themselves free from sin like me and read lots and lots and lots of books about me so you became smart and could figure out what I was thinking about purty near everything.....(BREATH!)

Hey these new mountain dew energy drinks are pretty good!

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

BOWLS ENERGY DRINK IS GOOD, NOT MOUTAIN DEW!

haha jk

 

[blueSKYpilot]

Actually, I'm done here, because this discussion is just not proving to be fruitful.

well ok then lets MAKE it fruitful and up-beat with some rock music!

hahahahaha

 

[CrownedInTerror]

yea i just kicked in some swedish death metal.... i guess im on the path to the abyss.... left hand path id say.

 

[Zenmaker]

Just to interject my own personal testimony on this, I used to be very into metal music. I went to 2-3 concerts a week when I could, I promoted like a bandit, and I had about 40,000 mp3 files on my system. I was into bands like Slipknot, Mushroomhead, Hatebreed, Metallica, etc. The list goes on, but you get the point. I was also heavily into smoking pot, partying, sex, and anything that I could do to please myself.

The combination of all those brought me lower than I have ever been in my life. I had used every person I came in contact with, so I didn't really have any true relationships. I was destroying my health, and I wasn't really paying any attention to my real responsibilities, so everything else was falling apart too.

Jesus came to me in the middle of a room of potheads. Basically the message was that if I didn't change my life, I was on the way out... or on the way down. I admit, it scared me. So I made some changes. I started to seek out God, and the answers to all my objections. I had to make some serious changes, and it took a lot of work... it wasn't easy.

That was about 4 years ago. Since then, I have done a lot of studying, and I am doing my best to walk daily with the Lord. My life has turned completely around. I have a wonderful wife, and a beautiful 20 month old daughter. I actually have a few true friends that are there for me when I need them the most... and I have real peace and joy in my life. Things aren't perfect. I am still working through the trash and grime that built up, but the pile is significantly smaller... and isn't building up daily... instead it is dwindling. I can see a day in the future when it will all be cleaned up totally.

So, from my experience, I don't think the music itself is the sin. I think the lifestyle and the things it may help you to do in your life, are the things that become the sin. The lyrics in a lot of those tunes are not anything near being positive. On the contrary, they are about very negative things. Subjects such as sexual sin, rape, death, murder, manipulation, drugs, etc. All these things are very prominent in that type of music. I think that if you flood your mind with these subjects and visions, they can have a wearing affect on you. They can help you become weak to sin. Just like the lifestyle, the people that you hang with that also listen to that music, the drugs, the booze, etc.

If you truly want to be a Christian, and you truly want to seek Heaven, Jesus commands us to stay away from these type of influences. Keep ourselves pure and strong against sin. There are others that will also say that if you take entertainment in the sin they talk of in this music, then ultimately you condone that type of action. You have to think seriously about the fact... would you play that type of music around other Christians? Or around Jesus himself?

There is also another aspect to all of this. The heavy metal type of bands that are singing about Christian stuff. In the Purpose Driven Life book, they say that it isn't the actual musical tune that matters. It is the message within the music. The lyrics themselves.

Ultimately it is a decision you need to make for yourself. If it's something that separates you from God, or something that causes you to sin against His standards, then I would give it up. I still listen to music, but I have given up on all that metal. I choose peaceful music. Things that inspire and calm me... instead of the bashing of metal... but that's just me. Peace to you, and I pray you find your way. Call on Him for the answers, and He will make it evidently clear. Also, just the fact that you asked this question would concern me. It is something that is obviously talking to your concience. The Holy Spirit perhaps? God Bless You.

 

[Eric_C]

Therefore as to the[listening] of [music] offerered to [a false god, or Satan]...there is no God but one. For although there may be so-called gods in heaven and on earth -- as indeed there are "gods" and many "lords" -- yet for us there is one God, the FAther, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with [Satan],[listen to music] as really offered to [Satan] and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. [Music] will not condemn us to God. We are no worse off it we do not[listen to] it, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have a knowledge of[listening to music offered to Satan], will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to[listen to music] offered to [Satan]?

I think this is entirely applicable. I have the freedom to listen to all music that my conscience does not tell me not to listen to, so long as I do not cause my brothers and sisters in Christ to stumble.

This is an excellent parallel!



Right on the mark!



After reading through this thread I must say that I agree 100% with your well reasoned argument. It is a pleasure to read another’s work when logic is employed.

Argumentum ad nauseam (ad infinitum)


Missing the Point (or not even addressing them)



False or Misplaced Cause (post hoc ergo propter hoc)



​

All that your opponents were able offer ended up in a pile of straw.



No no... we can’t expose our ears to those heathens; their evil words might enter into our brains and cause us to loose control.

No dialogue, just plug our ears and holler at them what we know...


Sadly, that’s just what your opponents did to you.



Keep up the good work philN



In Christ

 

[Sabertooth]

Of course not, Psalms 150:3-5 says,

"Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,

praise him with tambourine and dancing,
praise him with the strings and flute,

praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals."

How much more metal would you want???