Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?

[Baby Cottontail]

YASHUA/JESUS IS NOT YHWH/YAHWEH!

The following are scriptures proving Yahweh and Yahshua are not one being:

Rev. 1:1-2,5-6, Rev. 2:18,27. Rev. 3:5,12, Matt. 4:3,6-7,10 Matt. 6:8-13, Matt. 7:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, Matt.11:25-27, Matt. 12:50 16:13-17,27, 18:19, 19:17,;20:23,24:36, 26:39,42,53, John2:16-18,4:34 John 5:19-47, 6:38-40,44-46, 8:19,28-29,38,42,49,54, John 10:17-28,25,29,32,36, (John 13:16 brings this point out even clearer, it states that one who is sent, is not greater than the one whom sent Him, Yahweh sent Yahshua) (John 13:20, John 14:1-2,11-16,20-24,28, shows that Yahweh is greater than Yahshua which proves even the more that Yahweh is the Father, and Yahshua is the Son, and not the Father), John 14:31,15:1,9-10,16,21, John 16:5,10,15-17,23,26-28, John17, John18:11, John 20:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, 7:21, Matt. 12:50 Matt. 15:13, 16:17, 18:10,19,35, Matt. 20:23, Matt. 26:39,42,53, Matt. 28:19, Mark 8:38, 9:37, Psalms 2:7, 8:9,26-27, Luke 1:31-32, John 3:35-36.

The scriptures above are just a few examples of the many, found in the Bible, to prove that Yahweh is the Father and Yahshua is the son (From the NKJV). On this site, we are using Yahweh's (God) true name, and Yahshua's (jesus) true name).

Scriptures identifying the Father and the Son as two separate entities:

Jn.1:2: "He was with God in the beginning." Jn.14:28: "...for the Father is greater than I." Jn.17:3: ...that they may know you, the only true God." Jn.17:5: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Confirming Pr.8:22-25: "The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth," Pr.8:30: "Then I was the craftsman at His side..." Confirming Col.1:15: " He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Heb.1:2: "...but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe."


Quasa92r

I have literally been busy all day today. I wanted to stop in just to post a few links that I suggest you read. You have been constantly copying and pasting from certain websites, one of which is got questions. Since you quote from got questions, I assume that you trust them.

While searching for "trinity" on that website, there are some links that I think you should read. I won't copy and paste the articles, but I will give you the links:
How is the doctrine of the Trinity not tritheism?
What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?
What does it mean that Jesus is Lord?
What is the doctrine of eternal generation and is it biblical?
Is the deity of Christ biblical?

Pay special attention to the "Is the deity of Christ biblical?" article

 

[Bible2+]

Quasar92 said in post #33:

(John 13:16 brings this point out even clearer, it states that one who is sent, is not greater than the one whom sent Him, Yahweh sent Yahshua)

YHWH the Father indeed sent Jesus Christ. But note that Jesus is still YHWH God the Word made flesh (John 1:1,14).

Also, just as a human father is greater than his son in his authority, not in his humanity, for a human son is equal to his father in his humanity, so God the Father is greater than God the Son (John 14:28c, Hebrews 1:8) in His authority (1 Corinthians 15:28), not in His divinity. For God the Son, Jesus Christ, is equal to God the Father in His divinity (Philippians 2:6, John 1:1,14, John 10:30).

--

Someone might ask: "Does God then pray to Himself?"

The answer is that Jesus Christ prays to God the Father (e.g. John 11:41-42) because even though Jesus is God (John 1:1,14), at the same time He's also human just like we're human (Hebrews 2:17). And so, as a human, He has a God and Father just like we do (John 20:17). Before Jesus became our eternally-human mediator/high priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 7:24-26), and the only-begotten (only-born) Son of God (John 3:16), the only human ever born without any human father (Luke 1:34-35), He preexisted (John 17:5, John 8:58) from all eternity as God the Word (John 1:1,14; 1 Timothy 3:16). He has always been, and still is, even now in human flesh (Luke 24:39; 2 John 1:7), one God with the Father (John 10:30, John 20:28, Titus 2:13), equal in divinity with the Father (Philippians 2:6, Revelation 2:8b, Isaiah 44:6).

 

[Quasar92]

YHWH the Father indeed sent Jesus Christ. But note that Jesus is still YHWH God the Word made flesh (John 1:1,14).

Also, just as a human father is greater than his son in his authority, not in his humanity, for a human son is equal to his father in his humanity, so God the Father is greater than God the Son (John 14:28c, Hebrews 1:8) in His authority (1 Corinthians 15:28), not in His divinity. For God the Son, Jesus Christ, is equal to God the Father in His divinity (Philippians 2:6, John 1:1,14, John 10:30).

--

Someone might ask: "Does God then pray to Himself?"

The answer is that Jesus Christ prays to God the Father (e.g. John 11:41-42) because even though Jesus is God (John 1:1,14), at the same time He's also human just like we're human (Hebrews 2:17). And so, as a human, He has a God and Father just like we do (John 20:17). Before Jesus became our eternally-human mediator/high priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 7:24-26), and the only-begotten (only-born) Son of God (John 3:16), the only human ever born without any human father (Luke 1:34-35), He preexisted (John 17:5, John 8:58) from all eternity as God the Word (John 1:1,14; 1 Timothy 3:16). He has always been, and still is, even now in human flesh (Luke 24:39; 2 John 1:7), one God with the Father (John 10:30, John 20:28, Titus 2:13), equal in divinity with the Father (Philippians 2:6, Revelation 2:8b, Isaiah 44:6).

Review Jn.14:28; 17:3 and 5. YHWH IS NOT YAHWHUA, nor is Yahshua, YHWH.

From another source:

YAHSHUA IS THE SON NOT THE FATHER

Some believe that Yahshua and Yahweh are the same, but this is not what Yahweh has given us to believe, Yahweh is the Father, and Him only, besides Him there is no other, He is the only source of power, He will not give His glory to another, He is a jealous Father (Isa. 42:8,43:10-11,44:6,45:5-6,18, 46:9,48:11, Ex.34:14,20:5).

Yahshua is the Son of Yahweh (Isa.45:11,13). If anyone says different he is a anti-Messiah, if you say He is the Father, then you are saying Yahshua is a liar, because He said He is the son of Yahweh. Yahshua said Me and my Father are one, (John 14:4-11) people have misinterpreted these verses, to say Yahshua is the Father, but that is a misinterpretation. What Yahshua is saying, when he said when you see Him you see the Father, is that He comes in the authority of Yahweh, by the life he lived, one could see Yahweh in Him.

We are saying the same thing that Yahshua said then, we come in the authority of Yahshua, by the life we live you can see Yahshua in us, so we can say, if you see us, you see Yahshua. That is not to say we are Yahshua. That is what Yahshua was saying in John 14. There are too many scriptures to prove that Yahshua is the Son and that Yahweh is the Father, some we will be giving you at the end of this page.

Some says that the trinity proves they are one,(1 John 5:7-8), but this is not so, what the trinity is saying is this, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit agree as one. They are not all one being, Yahweh is the Father, Yahshua is the Son, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit or Power of Yahweh. They all three exist, but all three are not one, they all agree as one.

Gal. 1:1 proves that Yahweh is the Father, and Yahshua is the Son, the verse plainly shows that Yahshua had to be risen from the dead by our Father Yahweh, two different beings, Yahweh being the greater. Verse 3, Paul makes a distinction between Yahweh (god) the Father, and our King (lord) Yahshua the Messiah. Paul is stating in verse 12, that he has the revelation of Yahshua the Messiah, meaning that he knows who Yahshua is, as he stated in verse 1 and 3 that Yahweh is the Father and Yahshua is the Son of Yahweh.

These are some scriptures to prove that Yahweh and Yahshua are not one being: Rev. 1:1-2,5-6, Rev. 2:18,27. Rev. 3:5,12, Matt. 4:3,6-7,10 Matt. 6:8-13, Matt. 7:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, Matt.11:25-27, Matt. 12:50 16:13-17,27, 18:19, 19:17,;20:23,24:36, 26:39,42,53, John2:16-18,4:34 John 5:19-47, 6:38-40,44-46, 8:19,28-29,38,42,49,54, John 10:17-28,25,29,32,36, (John 13:16 brings this point out even clearer, it states that one who is sent, is not greater than the one whom sent Him, Yahweh sent Yahshua) (John 13:20, John 14:1-2,11-16,20-24,28, shows that Yahweh is greater than Yahshua which proves even the more that Yahweh is the Father, and Yahshua is the Son, and not the Father), John 14:31,15:1,9-10,16,21, John 16:5,10,15-17,23,26-28, John17, John18:11, John 20:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, 7:21, Matt. 12:50 Matt. 15:13, 16:17, 18:10,19,35, Matt. 20:23, Matt. 26:39,42,53, Matt. 28:19, Mark 8:38, 9:37, Psalms 2:7, 8:9,26-27, Luke 1:31-32, John 3:35-36.

These scriptures above are just a few examples of the many scriptures found in your word, to prove that Yahweh is the Father and Yahshua is the son ( we used the new king james version). On this site, we are using Yahweh's (god) True Name, and Yahshua's (jesus) true Name).

We Pray YAHWEH Open Up Your Understanding Through The Holy Spirit!

Source: YAHSHUA IS THE SON NOT THE FATHER


Quasar92

 

[Baby Cottontail]

The Father and the Son are two very specific separate entities. Review Jn.14:28 17:3 and 5. Jesus is never found in the Scriptures with the exclusive name of the Father, of YHWH/Yahwey. From another source:

The Sacred Name of God

BA / September 4, 2013 / Biblical Studies, Tracts
A study of names in the Bible is both instructive and inspirational. Bible names have meanings that are apparent in Bible language but not in English. In Bible times, a name was much more than a means of distinguishing one person from another. People back then understood the significance of a name. They believed it should identify something special about the person. They considered that a name represented a person’s nature, circumstances and/or character.

For example, take the name Nabal, which means “fool.” Nabal, the man, was a fool (1 Samuel 25:25). Abram means “father,” but God changed his name to Abraham, meaning “the father of a multitude” (Genesis 17:5), in keeping with God’s promise to make his descendants more numerous than the stars of heaven (15:5). Moses was named for his rescue from the Nile River: “She named him Moses [drawn out], saying, ‘I drew him out of the water’” (Exodus 2:10). Jacob’s name was changed to Israel “because you have struggled with God and men and have overcome” (Genesis 32:28).

Almighty God’s Name

In the Hebrew text of the Old Testament, God’s name appears as YHWH. In our E0nglish translation, it is rendered “Lord” (in capital letters). The four consonants, YHWH, are thought to have been pronounced “Yahweh.” The Jews did not pronounce YHWH because they considered it too sacred and did not want to run the risk of profaning it. Whenever they read the Scriptures and came to YHWH, they would substitute Adonai, meaning “Lord,” or Elohim, meaning “God,” depending on the context.

The Septuagint, a pre-Christian Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, translated YHWH as kurios, meaning “Lord.” Several popular versions of the English Bible render YHWH as “Lord” (all capital letters) to distinguish it as the name of God. They render the Hebrew word adonai or the Greek word kurios as “Lord” (first letter capitalized). They translated Elohim as theos in Greek.

Some English versions of the Bible use Jehovah, a sixteenth-century transliteration of YHWH, in their texts instead of “Lord.”

Sacred Name

A phenomenon among some Sabbathkeepers is the teaching that reference to God should be made by His Hebrew name, Yahweh, or an equivalent. This practice is known as the sacred names, predicated on texts like these: “I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols” (Isaiah 42:8), or “Those who know your name will trust in you
. . .” (Psalm 9:10). The importance attached to this teaching varies. Some simply prefer to refer to God as Yahweh. Others insist that salvation depends upon avoiding references to Deity by titles like “Lord” and “God.” To refer to God as “Lord” or “God” is considered, by these folks, to be idolatrous. The idea of the sacred names is that it is imperative to know the Hebrew names and titles for God. It teaches that one can only call upon God properly by articulating His name in Hebrew. Hence, those worshippers refer to Deity as Elohim for “God,” Adonai for “Lord” (lower case), or Yahweh for “Lord” (capital letters). Jesus must be called Yahshua, Hebrew for Joshua and the equivalent of the Greek name Jesus. Some advocates of this teaching have mistakenly taught that Jesus is derived from Zeus, the Greek god. Contrary to this misrepresentation, Jesus is derived from the Greek name for Joshua and means “the Lord saves” (Matthew 1:21).

One of our objectives here is to examine the teaching of the sacred names from different biblical perspectives. We will examine the argument for the exclusive use of the Hebrew names, in reference to Deity, to determine if it has biblical support.

Source: https://baonline.org/the-sacred-name-of-god/


Quasar92

You need to choose your sources better if you insist that the Father and Son are two different gods.

This very article that you quoted from and posted a link to affirms that the Father and Son are both Yahweh.

Yes, I clicked on the link and read what the website is saying.

Since you quoted from this article, I will quote from it, too, in order to show you that another of your trusted online sources that you quote from agrees.

I don't normally like copying and pasting from online because I think it detracts from the conversation, and I think people should post their own thoughts, and explain things themselves....however, in this case I will copy and paste it to show you that your own source says this. I will bold the parts from this article that are most relevant:

A Shared Name

We question the presumption that Yahweh is the name of God the Father alone. Yahweh is a shared name; it is not exclusively a designation for the heavenly Father. Jesus, the Son of God, shares the name Yahweh with the Father. Support for this is found in the fact that some Old Testament references to Yahweh are fulfilled by Jesus in the New Testament. All four Gospel writers quote Isaiah 40:3 in their introduction to the baptism and ministry of Jesus Christ:

When Isaiah says the way is prepared for the Lord (Yahweh), according to the Gospels, he is saying the way is prepared for Jesus.

The prophet Joel wrote, “And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord [Yahweh] will be saved” (2:32a). Paul quotes this verse in Romans 10:13, and he ascribes saving power to the Lord Jesus (vv. 9, 10).

It is instructive that New Testament writers clearly use Old Testament references to Yahweh to identify Jesus in the New Testament. Since they use the name Yahweh (Deity) for the Son so freely, we have to conclude that He shares His Father’s name and is included in all that it comprehends. Consider that at the incarnation of the Word, who was God (John1:1, 14), Jesus was called “Immanuel — which means ‘God with us’” (Matthew 1:23).

Additional evidence that Yahweh is the name of Deity who has revealed Himself as Father and Son is in the Creation account. In Genesis 1, Elohim is Creator: “In the beginning God [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth.” But in Genesis 2:4-22, Yahweh Elohim is identified as Creator, thus making the name synonymous with Elohim. New Testament writers identify Jesus as Creator: “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made” (John 1:3; see Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2). Jesus, as Creator, cannot be separated from Yahweh Elohim.

The unavoidable truth of these texts is that Jesus shares the name Yahweh with His Father. To insist that Yahweh is exclusively the Father’s name, or that the Father in heaven must be addressed as Yahweh, misses this glorious truth. Therefore, the Son of God and the Father are both addressed as Yahweh. Because of this, the Father can never be addressed exclusively by that name. Yahweh must be understood to be that of Deity!

 

[Baby Cottontail]

YASHUA/JESUS IS NOT YHWH/YAHWEH!

The following are scriptures proving Yahweh and Yahshua are not one being:

Rev. 1:1-2,5-6, Rev. 2:18,27. Rev. 3:5,12, Matt. 4:3,6-7,10 Matt. 6:8-13, Matt. 7:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, Matt.11:25-27, Matt. 12:50 16:13-17,27, 18:19, 19:17,;20:23,24:36, 26:39,42,53, John2:16-18,4:34 John 5:19-47, 6:38-40,44-46, 8:19,28-29,38,42,49,54, John 10:17-28,25,29,32,36, (John 13:16 brings this point out even clearer, it states that one who is sent, is not greater than the one whom sent Him, Yahweh sent Yahshua) (John 13:20, John 14:1-2,11-16,20-24,28, shows that Yahweh is greater than Yahshua which proves even the more that Yahweh is the Father, and Yahshua is the Son, and not the Father), John 14:31,15:1,9-10,16,21, John 16:5,10,15-17,23,26-28, John17, John18:11, John 20:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, 7:21, Matt. 12:50 Matt. 15:13, 16:17, 18:10,19,35, Matt. 20:23, Matt. 26:39,42,53, Matt. 28:19, Mark 8:38, 9:37, Psalms 2:7, 8:9,26-27, Luke 1:31-32, John 3:35-36.

No one in this thread is claiming that Jesus is the Father, or that the Father is Jesus. We all affirm that the Father and Jesus are two different Persons.

However, by claiming that only the Father is Yahweh, you are denying that the Father and the Son are the same God. We are affirming that the Father and the Son are the very same God, Yahweh.

If Jesus is not Yahweh, then we would have two Gods -- Yahweh (which you insist is only the Father) and Yahshua (which you insist is only the Son.)

The scriptures above are just a few examples of the many, found in the Bible, to prove that Yahweh is the Father and Yahshua is the son (From the NKJV). On this site, we are using Yahweh's (God) true name, and Yahshua's (jesus) true name).

Scriptures identifying the Father and the Son as two separate entities:

Jn.1:2: "He was with God in the beginning." Jn.14:28: "...for the Father is greater than I." Jn.17:3: ...that they may know you, the only true God." Jn.17:5: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Confirming Pr.8:22-25: "The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth," Pr.8:30: "Then I was the craftsman at His side..." Confirming Col.1:15: " He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Heb.1:2: "...but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe."
Quasa92r

Again, everyone in this thread believes that the Father and Son are two different Persons.

We are trying to correct your incorrect statement that only the Father is Yahweh.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Review Jn.14:28; 17:3 and 5. YHWH IS NOT YAHWHUA, nor is Yahshua, YHWH.

From another source:

YAHSHUA IS THE SON NOT THE FATHER

Some believe that Yahshua and Yahweh are the same, but this is not what Yahweh has given us to believe, Yahweh is the Father, and Him only, besides Him there is no other, He is the only source of power, He will not give His glory to another, He is a jealous Father (Isa. 42:8,43:10-11,44:6,45:5-6,18, 46:9,48:11, Ex.34:14,20:5).

Yahshua is the Son of Yahweh (Isa.45:11,13). If anyone says different he is a anti-Messiah, if you say He is the Father, then you are saying Yahshua is a liar, because He said He is the son of Yahweh. Yahshua said Me and my Father are one, (John 14:4-11) people have misinterpreted these verses, to say Yahshua is the Father, but that is a misinterpretation. What Yahshua is saying, when he said when you see Him you see the Father, is that He comes in the authority of Yahweh, by the life he lived, one could see Yahweh in Him.

We are saying the same thing that Yahshua said then, we come in the authority of Yahshua, by the life we live you can see Yahshua in us, so we can say, if you see us, you see Yahshua. That is not to say we are Yahshua. That is what Yahshua was saying in John 14. There are too many scriptures to prove that Yahshua is the Son and that Yahweh is the Father, some we will be giving you at the end of this page.

The problem here is that you assume that only the Father is YHWH, and since you assume that, and you can see in the Bible that Jesus is not the Father, you are concluding that Jesus can't be Yahweh.

Your starting premise is incorrect. The Father is not the alone in being YHWH. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also YHWH. We only have one God, so if anyone is a true God in the Bible, they have to be YHWH. This makes Yahweh Himself triune in His very Being.

If your starting premise were correct, and only the Father is Yahweh, and yet, Jesus is God, then we would need to have at least two Gods.

If you affirm that besides Yahweh there is no other, and He will not give His glory to another, then we have to conclude that Jesus must also be Yahweh. Otherwise, there would be someone besides Yahweh who was God, and there would be someone besides Yahweh who shares in His glory. Jesus stated in John 17 that He shared the exact same glory as the Father from since before the world began.

Again, no one in this thread has claimed that Jesus is the Father. He is the same God as the Father, though.

The name Yahweh is not used in the NT. It sounds like you are substituting "Yahweh" for "the Father" every time the phrase appears in the NT. Coming at it from this perspective, no wonder you are coming to the conclusions that you are. This is why the starting premise matters.

Some says that the trinity proves they are one,(1 John 5:7-8), but this is not so, what the trinity is saying is this, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit agree as one. They are not all one being, Yahweh is the Father, Yahshua is the Son, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit or Power of Yahweh. They all three exist, but all three are not one, they all agree as one.

That would be tritheism, and is actually contradicting what the doctrine of the trinity teaches. (It specifically teaches that there is only one God.) Read the Athanasian Creed.

Gal. 1:1 proves that Yahweh is the Father, and Yahshua is the Son, the verse plainly shows that Yahshua had to be risen from the dead by our Father Yahweh, two different beings, Yahweh being the greater. Verse 3, Paul makes a distinction between Yahweh (god) the Father, and our King (lord) Yahshua the Messiah. Paul is stating in verse 12, that he has the revelation of Yahshua the Messiah, meaning that he knows who Yahshua is, as he stated in verse 1 and 3 that Yahweh is the Father and Yahshua is the Son of Yahweh.

That would be adding the name "Yahweh" to the NT.

These are some scriptures to prove that Yahweh and Yahshua are not one being: Rev. 1:1-2,5-6, Rev. 2:18,27. Rev. 3:5,12, Matt. 4:3,6-7,10 Matt. 6:8-13, Matt. 7:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, Matt.11:25-27, Matt. 12:50 16:13-17,27, 18:19, 19:17,;20:23,24:36, 26:39,42,53, John2:16-18,4:34 John 5:19-47, 6:38-40,44-46, 8:19,28-29,38,42,49,54, John 10:17-28,25,29,32,36, (John 13:16 brings this point out even clearer, it states that one who is sent, is not greater than the one whom sent Him, Yahweh sent Yahshua) (John 13:20, John 14:1-2,11-16,20-24,28, shows that Yahweh is greater than Yahshua which proves even the more that Yahweh is the Father, and Yahshua is the Son, and not the Father), John 14:31,15:1,9-10,16,21, John 16:5,10,15-17,23,26-28, John17, John18:11, John 20:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, 7:21, Matt. 12:50 Matt. 15:13, 16:17, 18:10,19,35, Matt. 20:23, Matt. 26:39,42,53, Matt. 28:19, Mark 8:38, 9:37, Psalms 2:7, 8:9,26-27, Luke 1:31-32, John 3:35-36.

Again, if the Father and Son are not one Being, then we would have two different Gods.

These scriptures above are just a few examples of the many scriptures found in your word, to prove that Yahweh is the Father and Yahshua is the son ( we used the new king james version). On this site, we are using Yahweh's (god) True Name, and Yahshua's (jesus) true Name).

We Pray YAHWEH Open Up Your Understanding Through The Holy Spirit!

Source: YAHSHUA IS THE SON NOT THE FATHER
Quasar92

These Scriptures don't prove that. The name "Yahweh" is being incorrectly inserted into the NT for "the Father." That's the only way that you can use these Scriptures to deny that the Father and Son are the same God.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Review Jn.14:28; 17:3 and 5. YHWH IS NOT YAHWHUA, nor is Yahshua, YHWH.

From another source:

YAHSHUA IS THE SON NOT THE FATHER

Some believe that Yahshua and Yahweh are the same, but this is not what Yahweh has given us to believe, Yahweh is the Father, and Him only, besides Him there is no other, He is the only source of power, He will not give His glory to another, He is a jealous Father (Isa. 42:8,43:10-11,44:6,45:5-6,18, 46:9,48:11, Ex.34:14,20:5).

Yahshua is the Son of Yahweh (Isa.45:11,13). If anyone says different he is a anti-Messiah, if you say He is the Father, then you are saying Yahshua is a liar, because He said He is the son of Yahweh. Yahshua said Me and my Father are one, (John 14:4-11) people have misinterpreted these verses, to say Yahshua is the Father, but that is a misinterpretation. What Yahshua is saying, when he said when you see Him you see the Father, is that He comes in the authority of Yahweh, by the life he lived, one could see Yahweh in Him.

We are saying the same thing that Yahshua said then, we come in the authority of Yahshua, by the life we live you can see Yahshua in us, so we can say, if you see us, you see Yahshua. That is not to say we are Yahshua. That is what Yahshua was saying in John 14. There are too many scriptures to prove that Yahshua is the Son and that Yahweh is the Father, some we will be giving you at the end of this page.

Some says that the trinity proves they are one,(1 John 5:7-8), but this is not so, what the trinity is saying is this, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit agree as one. They are not all one being, Yahweh is the Father, Yahshua is the Son, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit or Power of Yahweh. They all three exist, but all three are not one, they all agree as one.

Gal. 1:1 proves that Yahweh is the Father, and Yahshua is the Son, the verse plainly shows that Yahshua had to be risen from the dead by our Father Yahweh, two different beings, Yahweh being the greater. Verse 3, Paul makes a distinction between Yahweh (god) the Father, and our King (lord) Yahshua the Messiah. Paul is stating in verse 12, that he has the revelation of Yahshua the Messiah, meaning that he knows who Yahshua is, as he stated in verse 1 and 3 that Yahweh is the Father and Yahshua is the Son of Yahweh.

These are some scriptures to prove that Yahweh and Yahshua are not one being: Rev. 1:1-2,5-6, Rev. 2:18,27. Rev. 3:5,12, Matt. 4:3,6-7,10 Matt. 6:8-13, Matt. 7:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, Matt.11:25-27, Matt. 12:50 16:13-17,27, 18:19, 19:17,;20:23,24:36, 26:39,42,53, John2:16-18,4:34 John 5:19-47, 6:38-40,44-46, 8:19,28-29,38,42,49,54, John 10:17-28,25,29,32,36, (John 13:16 brings this point out even clearer, it states that one who is sent, is not greater than the one whom sent Him, Yahweh sent Yahshua) (John 13:20, John 14:1-2,11-16,20-24,28, shows that Yahweh is greater than Yahshua which proves even the more that Yahweh is the Father, and Yahshua is the Son, and not the Father), John 14:31,15:1,9-10,16,21, John 16:5,10,15-17,23,26-28, John17, John18:11, John 20:21, Matt. 10:32-33,40, 7:21, Matt. 12:50 Matt. 15:13, 16:17, 18:10,19,35, Matt. 20:23, Matt. 26:39,42,53, Matt. 28:19, Mark 8:38, 9:37, Psalms 2:7, 8:9,26-27, Luke 1:31-32, John 3:35-36.

These scriptures above are just a few examples of the many scriptures found in your word, to prove that Yahweh is the Father and Yahshua is the son ( we used the new king james version). On this site, we are using Yahweh's (god) True Name, and Yahshua's (jesus) true Name).

We Pray YAHWEH Open Up Your Understanding Through The Holy Spirit!

Source: YAHSHUA IS THE SON NOT THE FATHER


Quasar92

This particular link is from a site called House of Yahweh. Do you belong to this movement? You said "we" a couple times in the post, but I'm not sure if that was because you were copying and pasting off of the website, or if that was you speaking.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

This verse here from the OT shows that the Lord and his His Redeemer both share the same titles and both are the First and the Last and besides Me there is no God. Isa 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. Is. 41:4; Who has performed and done it, Calling the generations from the beginning? ‘I, the Lord, am the first; And with the last I am He.’” Rev 1:7-8 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen" 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Isa 48:12-13 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. 13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together. Rev 21:5-7 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” 6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

 

[Quasar92]

The problem here is that you assume that only the Father is YHWH, and since you assume that, and you can see in the Bible that Jesus is not the Father, you are concluding that Jesus can't be Yahweh.

Your starting premise is incorrect. The Father is not the alone in being YHWH. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also YHWH. We only have one God, so if anyone is a true God in the Bible, they have to be YHWH. This makes Yahweh Himself triune in His very Being.

If your starting premise were correct, and only the Father is Yahweh, and yet, Jesus is God, then we would need to have at least two Gods.

If you affirm that besides Yahweh there is no other, and He will not give His glory to another, then we have to conclude that Jesus must also be Yahweh. Otherwise, there would be someone besides Yahweh who was God, and there would be someone besides Yahweh who shares in His glory. Jesus stated in John 17 that He shared the exact same glory as the Father from since before the world began.

Again, no one in this thread has claimed that Jesus is the Father. He is the same God as the Father, though.

The name Yahweh is not used in the NT. It sounds like you are substituting "Yahweh" for "the Father" every time the phrase appears in the NT. Coming at it from this perspective, no wonder you are coming to the conclusions that you are. This is why the starting premise matters.


That would be tritheism, and is actually contradicting what the doctrine of the trinity teaches. (It specifically teaches that there is only one God.) Read the Athanasian Creed.


That would be adding the name "Yahweh" to the NT.


Again, if the Father and Son are not one Being, then we would have two different Gods.


These Scriptures don't prove that. The name "Yahweh" is being incorrectly inserted into the NT for "the Father." That's the only way that you can use these Scriptures to deny that the Father and Son are the same God.

For your edification, Scriptures identifying the Father and the Son as two separate entities:

Jn.1:2: "He was with God in the beginning." Jn.14:28: "...for the Father is greater than I." Jn.17:3: ...that they may know you, the only true God." Jn.17:5: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Confirming Pr.8:22-25: "The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth," Pr.8:30: "Then I was the craftsman at His side..." Confirming Col.1:15: " He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Heb.1:2: "...but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe."

In the following link, there are 24 verses of Scripture referring to the Father raising Jesus from the dead:

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God-Raising-Christ

Attempting to make the Father and the Son one person is completely non-scriptural.


Quasar92

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

The rest of the story: John 1:1- 2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. John 17:5 shows that Jesus shared the same glory as the Father before He came to earth as a man, "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

The Proverb that is quoted in part only shows what the subject is talking about in context, the personification of wisdom; Pro 8:1-6 Does not wisdom cry out, And understanding lift up her voice? 2 She takes her stand on the top of the high hill, Beside the way, where the paths meet. 3 She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city, At the entrance of the doors: 4 “To you, O men, I call, And my voice is to the sons of men. 5 O you simple ones, understand prudence, And you fools, be of an understanding heart. 6 Listen, for I will speak of excellent things, And from the opening of my lips will come right things;
the whole chapter is about the value of wisdom, 4 to you o men I call.

The scripture says the Three are One God just as Deut 6;4-5 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

 

[Quasar92]

The problem here is that you assume that only the Father is YHWH, and since you assume that, and you can see in the Bible that Jesus is not the Father, you are concluding that Jesus can't be Yahweh.

Your starting premise is incorrect. The Father is not the alone in being YHWH. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also YHWH. We only have one God, so if anyone is a true God in the Bible, they have to be YHWH. This makes Yahweh Himself triune in His very Being.

If your starting premise were correct, and only the Father is Yahweh, and yet, Jesus is God, then we would need to have at least two Gods.

If you affirm that besides Yahweh there is no other, and He will not give His glory to another, then we have to conclude that Jesus must also be Yahweh. Otherwise, there would be someone besides Yahweh who was God, and there would be someone besides Yahweh who shares in His glory. Jesus stated in John 17 that He shared the exact same glory as the Father from since before the world began.

Again, no one in this thread has claimed that Jesus is the Father. He is the same God as the Father, though.

The name Yahweh is not used in the NT. It sounds like you are substituting "Yahweh" for "the Father" every time the phrase appears in the NT. Coming at it from this perspective, no wonder you are coming to the conclusions that you are. This is why the starting premise matters.


That would be tritheism, and is actually contradicting what the doctrine of the trinity teaches. (It specifically teaches that there is only one God.) Read the Athanasian Creed.


That would be adding the name "Yahweh" to the NT.


Again, if the Father and Son are not one Being, then we would have two different Gods.


These Scriptures don't prove that. The name "Yahweh" is being incorrectly inserted into the NT for "the Father." That's the only way that you can use these Scriptures to deny that the Father and Son are the same God.

Due t5o the rules of this site, I am not allowed to debate issues here, pertaining to the Trinity. Otherwise, I would provide Scriptural truth as to the source of its its teachings. It does not come from the Bible, Jesus or His disciples. I can day no more for reasons provided above.

FYI, I am a qualified Bible teacher.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

The rest of the story: John 1:1- 2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. John 17:5 shows that Jesus shared the same glory as the Father before He came to earth as a man, "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

The Proverb that is quoted in part only shows what the subject is talking about in context, the personification of wisdom; Pro 8:1-6 Does not wisdom cry out, And understanding lift up her voice? 2 She takes her stand on the top of the high hill, Beside the way, where the paths meet. 3 She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city, At the entrance of the doors: 4 “To you, O men, I call, And my voice is to the sons of men. 5 O you simple ones, understand prudence, And you fools, be of an understanding heart. 6 Listen, for I will speak of excellent things, And from the opening of my lips will come right things;
the whole chapter is about the value of wisdom, 4 to you o men I call.

The scripture says the Three are One God just as Deut 6;4-5 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

The Word did not become God until in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35. Review the origin of the Firstborn over all creation [Col.1:15] in Pr.8:22-36.


Quasar92

 

[Baby Cottontail]

For your edification, Scriptures identifying the Father and the Son as two separate entities:

Jn.1:2: "He was with God in the beginning." Jn.14:28: "...for the Father is greater than I." Jn.17:3: ...that they may know you, the only true God." Jn.17:5: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Confirming Pr.8:22-25: "The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth," Pr.8:30: "Then I was the craftsman at His side..." Confirming Col.1:15: " He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Heb.1:2: "...but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe."

In the following link, there are 24 verses of Scripture referring to the Father raising Jesus from the dead:

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God-Raising-Christ

Attempting to make the Father and the Son one person is completely non-scriptural.


Quasar92

You haven't been listening. I am not claiming that the Father and Son are the same Person. No one in this thread has been claiming that.

To be completely clear we are claiming the following:
Jesus is not the Father.
The Father is not Jesus.

Jesus and the Father are the same God, YHWH. One God in three Persons.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Due t5o the rules of this site, I am not allowed to debate issues here, pertaining to the Trinity. Otherwise, I would provide Scriptural truth as to the source of its its teachings. It does not come from the Bible, Jesus or His disciples. I can day no more for reasons provided above.

FYI, I am a qualified Bible teacher.


Quasar92

Where are you a Bible teacher at?

You are at odds with some of your sources and with what the Athanasian Creed and other Christian sources say when you claim that Jesus is not Yahweh.

But, at any rate, yes I understand that you are not allowed to teach your views here. Be that as it is, I hope to see you around this site more on other threads.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

The Word did not become God until in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35. Review the origin of the Firstborn over all creation [Col.1:15] in Pr.8:22-36.


Quasar92

I don't think that Proverbs 8 is about Jesus. As iwbswiaihl said, it is talking about wisdom.

John 1:1 states that the Word was with God in the beginning -- the same beginning as in Genesis 1:1.

Firstborn doesn't mean created -- Colossians 1:15 is talking about Jesus' supremacy/first place over everything, and it does show that Christ was there in the very beginning, as all things were created by Him.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The rest of the story: John 1:1- 2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.

The scripture says the Three are One God just as Deut 6;4-5 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

Good quote.
Jesus repeats it in Mark 2:29

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear-thou Yisra'el!
YHWH, Elohim<430> of us, YHWH<3068> one.

3068 Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw' from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069.
1961 hayah haw-yaw a primitive root (Compare 1933); to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):

430 'elohiym el-o-heem' plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God;................
433 'elowahh el-o'-ah; rarely (shortened) >eloahh {el-o'-ah probably prolonged (emphat.) from 410; a deity or the Deity:--God, god. See 430.

So why shouldn't YHWH and Elohim be used in this verse instead of LORD?

Mark 12:29
Yet Jesus answered him saying "that first of all the commandments 'be thou hearing Israel!
YHWH, the<3588> Elohim<2361> of us, YHWH<2962> one is'".

2962. kurios
from kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title):-- God, Lord, master, Sir.
2316. theos
of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:--X exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

The Word did not become God until in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35. Review the origin of the Firstborn over all creation [Col.1:15] in Pr.8:22-36.


Quasar92

If He did not become God until Matt 1:20 how did He create all things in the beginning and how was He with God before He came to become that little baby boy who was God in the flesh? John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

 

[1213]

On the contrary Jesus did say he is God. I really like the site Got Questions dot org. and I am going to use their site to explain why Jesus did say and is God. I hope this is ok.

It is ok. And I hope it is ok, if I show why the arguments are not good for your cause.

What did Jesus mean when He said, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30)?

In John 10 Jesus presents Himself as the Good Shepherd and, in a debate with the Jewish leaders, makes the claim, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). It was a bold statement—one His audience found quite audacious—and it reveals much about who Jesus is.

Five key observations can be made concerning this passage. First, Jesus claimed to be one with God in the sense of being equal to Him. Jesus did not claim to be merely a messenger or prophet of God, but of equal power with God.

I think there is nothing in the Bible that indicates that Jesus taught he was equal to God, because he says:

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

Also, Jesus tells his disciples should be one with God.

I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11

that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21

Those are the reasons why I think your claims are not Biblical. But obviously people are free to believe non- Biblical matters also.

Third, Jesus referred to Himself as God’s Son and to God as His Father (John 10:36–37). He used Psalm 82:6 to show that the Messiah has the right to claim the title “Son of God.”

In this it is good to notice that Bible has many that are called sons of God and even gods.

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

It happened, when men began to multiply on the surface of the ground, and daughters were born to them, that God's sons saw that men's daughters were beautiful, and they took for themselves wives of all that they chose.
Genesis 6:1-2

Colossians 1:16–17 affirms Jesus’ same teaching: “In him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” John 1:1 explicitly notes that Jesus was both with God in the beginning and was God.

John says the word was God. It doesn’t say Jesus is the word or the God. But I believe Jesus can be called God on earth, because according to the Bible, he represents God on earth. He has authority to speak in the name of God. However, that doesn’t mean he is the actual one and only true God. That would be just an interpretation that I don’t see has support from the Bible.

To believe that Jesus was merely a man that had God in him reduces Jesus to equality with us. As we have Jesus in us as with the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God manifest in man to bring salvation to the world. It is the plan that has been laid out since the beginning of time.

Bible tells Jesus was a man.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

Can we really ignore what the Bible tells?

According to the Bible, Jesus is the image of God and in that way he is manifestation of God.


…who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. …
Colossians 1:14-16

With that said let us all agree that God is an entity that there is no way we can fully understand with our human mind.

God can be understood and known, if Jesus spoke the truth:

All things have been delivered to me by my Father. No one knows the Son, except the Father; neither does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and he to whom the Son desires to reveal him.
Matt. 11:27

With Bible and with God’s help, anything is possible. But to know God, person should remain in truth.

And here is something for to know God better:

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

First please show me the verse that states Jesus used God? I believe you are referring to the phrase “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28) Which is explained below.

I think it is rather the opposite, God used Jesus, because:

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works' sake. Most assuredly I tell you, he who believes in me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these will he do; because I am going to my Father. Whatever you will ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you will ask anything in my name, I will do it.
John 14:10-14

For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak."
John 12:49-50

Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

But please notice, I just want people to believe what the Bible tells. If you think something that I say is against what the Bible tells, please ignore it and keep what the Bible tells.

 

[1213]

There are Scripture passages such as the following, that reveal the Father calling the Son, God. Such as in Ps.45:6-7, Heb.1:8-9 and Ps.110:1.

It can be wrong interpretation that Ps.45:6-7 is about Jesus. But if we assume it is correct, it is also good to notice these:

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Many are called gods, but for disciples of Jesus:

For though there are things that are called "gods," whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many "gods" and many "lords;" yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

But if you are not disciples of Jesus, that may not have any meaning for you.

 

[Quasar92]

Where are you a Bible teacher at?

You are at odds with some of your sources and with what the Athanasian Creed and other Christian sources say when you claim that Jesus is not Yahweh.

But, at any rate, yes I understand that you are not allowed to teach your views here. Be that as it is, I hope to see you around this site more on other threads.

I wrote that I was a qualified Bible teacher. I earned them at Prairie Bible Institute, in Three Hills, Alberta. Canada and at Liberty University, in Lynchburg, Va. Since I am also a WWII vet, in my 94th year, I am retired. I have been a participnt on Christian discussion forums for the better part of 20 years. Ten as an administrator of two different web sites, in addition to founding my own site.


Quasar92