Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?

[Revealing Times]

I am not saying that Jesus is the Father. Jesus and the Father are clearly different Persons. Jesus prays to the Father, the Father sent Jesus, etc.

I am saying that Jesus and the Father are the same God, Yahweh.

Yahweh is not only the Father. He is all three Persons. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus is not Yahweh, we would have more than one God.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the same Being and the same God.

I agree !! They are the same IN SPIRIT or LIKENESS but only the Father has the Fullness of the Glory. Jesus IS GOD, he is just not the FULLNESS OF GOD.........Only the Father is the Fullness.

I explained it perfectly with the reservoir description.

The WATER is the Same, all THREE TRILLION GALLONS is exactly the Same. Jesus is 100 Gallons, the Holy Spirit is 100 Gallons and God is the THREE TRILLION GALLONS.

The Water is the SAME.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Yes and Jesus is a PART of that Spirit, as is the Holy Spirit, God is ALL of that same Spirit (The Fullness of the Glory). Jesus is the EXACT LIKENESS in the Flesh because he was not born into Sin, guess what, Adam was not born into sin either, we likewise have the Holy Spirit in us to bring us towards Gods LIKENESS, but God can not live fully in or Flesh Bodies, we would be consumed.

That makes it sound like you are denying that Jesus was fully human -- either that or you are still denying the fully deity of Jesus. I'm not sure which, as your talk about the Spirit above is confusing.

God can not live in the presence of Sin. Have you ever wonder why God left Jesus on the cross all alone? When our sins came upon the Master, God had to leave, all of men's sins were upon Jesus, that is why Jesus said "My God, My God, why have you foresaken (left) me".

You thinking Jesus is the fullness of God is just way off kilter. Moses could not look upon God lest he die, Moses looked at the hinder parts and it turned is hair gray. Moses did look upon Jesus, who is not FLESH PER SE,

Okay, then, yes, you do deny that Jesus was fully human.

Jesus was with God during Creation (Let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likeness) Moses looked upon I AM the burning bush...........what did Jesus tell the Pharisees? He told them their father Abraham had seen him, he then told them he was I AM THAT I AM !!

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

So Moses saw the same I am i the burning bush. He looked upon I am that I am but Moses couldn't look upon the Father. Do you not get that there is a difference in Glory? The Glory is the same, but God has the FULLNESS of the Glory, that is why he us the Father.

Jesus' glory was veiled while on earth -- we saw a glimpse of it in the transfiguration, as I showed in a previous post.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Psalm 110:1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

You trying t say that Jesus is the Father is just WEIRD Brother.

You are not listening. I am not saying that Jesus is the Father.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I agree !! They are the same IN SPIRIT or LIKENESS but on the Father has the Fullness of the Glory. Jesus IS GOD, he is just not the FULLNESS OF GOD.........Only the Father is the Fullness.

I explained it perfectly with the reservoir description.

The WATER is the Same, all THREE TRILLION GALLONS is exactly the Same. Jesus is 100 Gallon, the Holy Spirit is 100 Gallon and God is the THREE TRILLION GALLONS.

The Water is the SAME.

That still seems to make Jesus less than the Father.

Colossians 1:19 (NASB)
For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him.

Colossians 2:9 (NASB)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.

This doesn't seem to leave glory out -- just that it was veiled while Jesus was on earth.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

I agree !! They are the same IN SPIRIT or LIKENESS but on the Father has the Fullness of the Glory. Jesus IS GOD, he is just not the FULLNESS OF GOD.........Only the Father is the Fullness.

I explained it perfectly with the reservoir description.

The WATER is the Same, all THREE TRILLION GALLONS is exactly the Same. Jesus is 100 Gallon, the Holy Spirit is 100 Gallon and God is the THREE TRILLION GALLONS.

The Water is the SAME.

I did not answer your last reply to me, started typing then deleted my answers, was to long to reply on whole post, but would agree with what Baby Cottontail has replied. But on this water supply you use here, I surely would not say I agree. Fullness of the Godhead to me means all of the same essence, what one has all have. That is why Deut 6 would say the Lord our God is one Lord. As does the whole bible when speaking of the Godhead. Who is the King of Israel in the OT and NT? Who is the Redeemer in the OT and the NT? Who is the Lord of Hosts in the OT and the NT? Would you agree that it describes the Father and the Son?

 

[Quasar92]

You do realize that this post violates forum rules via the promotion of a non-Trinitarian viewpoint, right?

To claim that Jesus is not Yahweh is to deny the Trinity. It means that there would have to be more than one God, and it would mean that Jesus is not God Almighty, and that Jesus is not God in the flesh.

There is one God, and that is YHWH -- the God of the whole Bible.
He is triune -- the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father,
The Holy Spirit is not the Son, the Holy Spirit is not the Father
The Father is not the Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Holy Spirit


In other words:
The Father = Yahweh
The Son = Yahweh
The Holy Spirit = Yahweh
The whole triune God = Yahweh

Yahweh is not just the Father.

My post #69 clearly reveals the Scriptural facts pertaining to the exclusive names of Almighty God, the Father and Yeshua the Son. I wrote nothing about the Trinity. All the sites I have participated on have no problem allowing free discussion about it, to allow Scriptural truth to prevail. Not allowing it is censorship.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

That still seems to make Jesus less than the Father.

Colossians 1:19 (NASB)
For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him.

Colossians 2:9 (NASB)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.

This doesn't seem to leave glory out -- just that it was veiled while Jesus was on earth.

Review the autobiography of the pre-incarnate Jesus in Pr.8:22-36, Col.1:15 confirms, along with Jn.14:28.


Quasasr92

 

[Bible2+]

Revealing Times said in post #77:

Jesus is NOT the Father, thus only the Father knows when Jesus is returning for the Bride.

Before His resurrection, Jesus Christ didn't know the date (as in the year, month and day) of His future, Second Coming (Mark 13:32). But He knew He will return "immediately after the tribulation" of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, cf. John 16:12). And He knew the Tribulation will include the antitypical fulfillment of the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31, Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15).

The reason Jesus didn't know, before His resurrection, the date of His Second Coming (Mark 13:32), was because at His incarnation (John 1:1,14) He temporarily laid aside (Philippians 2:6-8) His divine omniscience with regard to His own conscious human knowledge (Mark 13:32), in order to completely share in our mortal human condition (Hebrews 2:17), and to be tempted in every way we're tempted (Hebrews 4:15). Nonetheless, He still remained God (John 10:30, John 1:1,14; 1 Timothy 3:16). And after His physical resurrection into human immortality (Luke 24:39), He regained His divine omniscience (Colossians 2:2b-3), just as He regained his divine omnipotence (Matthew 28:18). So now He does know the date of His Second Coming.

God, including Jesus Christ, is also omnipresent, by His Spirit (Psalms 139:7-10, Matthew 28:20b). But Jesus (God the Word, God the Son) is now also at the same time in a human, physical body (Luke 24:39). It's in this body that Jesus ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9, Acts 3:21) and now sits at God the Father's right hand (Hebrews 10:12), and will return from heaven to set His feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12). Jesus will remain in His human, physical body forever, so He can serve as Christians' high priest/mediator forever (Hebrews 7:24-25, Hebrews 2:16-18; 1 Timothy 2:5).

One thing Jesus Christ couldn't have put aside before His resurrection, and still have remained God, would have been His divine, Spiritual uncreatedness (John 1:1-3), His from-everlasting-to-everlasting, divine immortality (1 Timothy 6:16, Micah 5:2c). It was by this essential aspect of divinity ("I AM THAT I AM": Exodus 3:14, John 8:58) that Jesus had the power to revive His human life into human immortality after His human death (John 10:17-18, Romans 1:4). Because He's God, even as a human it wasn't possible for Jesus to remain dead (Acts 2:24, John 10:17-18).

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

Review the autobiography of the pre-incarnate Jesus in Pr.8:22-36, Col.1:15 confirms, along with Jn.14:28.

Quasasr92

Pro 1:20-22 Wisdom calls aloud outside; She raises her voice in the open squares. 21 She cries out in the chief concourses, At the openings of the gates in the city She speaks her words: 22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge. Read v1 and down in this chapter and chapter 8 both are talking about wisdom and wisdom is personified. Pro 8:22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old". Now go back up to v1 and read down to the end of chapter, its wisdom from God that is calling out to the sons of men v 4, 1 Does not wisdom cry out, And understanding lift up her voice? 2 She takes her stand on the top of the high hill, Beside the way, where the paths meet. 3 She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city, At the entrance of the doors: 4 “To you, O men, I call, And my voice is to the sons of men. 5 O you simple ones, understand prudence, And you fools, be of an understanding heart. 6 Listen, for I will speak of excellent things, And from the opening of my lips will come right things; 7 For my mouth will speak truth; Wickedness is an abomination to my lips.8 All the words of my mouth are with righteousness; Nothing crooked or perverse is in them. 9 They are all plain to him who understands,
And right to those who find knowledge. 10 Receive my instruction, and not silver, And knowledge rather than choice gold; 11 For wisdom is better than rubies, And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.12 “I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And find out knowledge and discretion. 13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverse mouth I hate. 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom; I am understanding, I have strength. 15 By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, and nobles, All the judges of the earth. 17 I love those who love me, And those who seek me diligently will find me. 18 Riches and honor are with me, Enduring riches and righteousness.19 My fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold, And my revenue than choice silver. 20 I traverse the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice, 21 That I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth, That I may fill their treasuries. 22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,Before His works of old. One can see how it is wisdom being spoken and notice v 17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently will find me. Pronoun are capitalized for the Lord, beside wisdom says in the first part of this verse I love those who love me, does not the Lord love all so much that He sent His Son into the world to save sinners? Rom 5:8 God demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[jaybird88]

My post #69 clearly reveals the Scriptural facts pertaining to the exclusive names of Almighty God, the Father and Yeshua the Son. I wrote nothing about the Trinity. All the sites I have participated on have no problem allowing free discussion about it, to allow Scriptural truth to prevail. Not allowing it is censorship.


Quasar92

you have to have the censorship or the doctrines fall apart when tested against scripture.

 

[Revealing Times]

That makes it sound like you are denying that Jesus was fully human -- either that or you are still denying the fully deity of Jesus. I'm not sure which, as your talk about the Spirit above is confusing.

He was God living in Human flesh, but not the Fullness of God living in Human flesh, the Fullness of Gods Glory would consume a flesh body. The point about Adam was that he was not God like Jesus, thus when tempted he fell, Jesus was tempted, but of course God is PERFECT. In reality you can temp God but you can't succeed, if that makes sense. God is the Word and the Word id God/Jesus, thus Jesus said IT IS WRITTEN.................The Word is the EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD/JESUS, that is why John said the Word is God:

John 1:1 is the first verse in the opening chapter of the Gospel of John. In the Douay–Rheims, King James, New International, and other versions of the Bible, the verse reads: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Okay, then, yes, you do deny that Jesus was fully human.

He was God and Flesh, so he can't be fully Human, he was not born of a Human Father. He was Fully Human as per being flesh, but he was also fully God. Therefore he was only TEMPTED like us, but being God he did not fall like we did, God could have turned evil long before He created mankind if he wanted to, but of course God being Holy does not desire to be Evil. Jesus is the same, he has no desire to be evil, nor was born under the Sin Curse. His Flesh knew no sin.

Jesus' glory was veiled while on earth -- we saw a glimpse of it in the transfiguration, as I showed in a previous post.

Jesus is NOT the Father. He is God but NOT the Father. Jesus returned to earth after he ascended in John ch. 20. You have the Father and Jesus mixed up. Both are God, Jesus is the Redeemer, God is the Father, the Glory lies with the Father.

You are not listening. I am not saying that Jesus is the Father.

Well then you are 100 Percent wrong on that Sister.....I have been preaching for 30 Years, that is kind of a scary statement, at least to me. The Father sends Jesus back, the Son doesn't even know when hes returning. That is scriptural.

That still seems to make Jesus less than the Father.

Colossians 1:19 (NASB)
For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him.

Colossians 2:9 (NASB)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.

This doesn't seem to leave glory out -- just that it was veiled while Jesus was on earth.

The FULLNESS of his Godhead/Authority, and Likeness, not the Fullness of his Glory. Only the Father has the fullness of the Glory. He is God, just like God, but he is not the Father.

I did not answer your last reply to me, started typing then deleted my answers, was to long to reply on whole post, but would agree with what Baby Cottontail has replied. But on this water supply you use here, I surely would not say I agree. Fullness of the Godhead to me means all of the same essence, what one has all have. That is why Deut 6 would say the Lord our God is one Lord. As does the whole bible when speaking of the Godhead. Who is the King of Israel in the OT and NT? Who is the Redeemer in the OT and the NT? Who is the Lord of Hosts in the OT and the NT? Would you agree that it describes the Father and the Son?

The Glory is not full with Jesus, else when we saw him we couldn't talk to him like the Disciples did. I can only explain it brother..........

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

Revealing Times said: The Glory is not full with Jesus, else when we saw him we couldn't talk to him like the Disciples did. I can only explain it brother...

Indeed I have heard you but I have not seen any scripture that says only God the Father has the fullness of His glory. In the wilderness wanderings who was the pillow of clouds by day and a pillow of fire at night? Whose glory gave light in the sky, and whose glory did they see as Moses described it, face to face? And you did not answer the 3 short questions that I asked. Do so if you please and I will continue.

 

[Quasar92]

Pro 1:20-22 Wisdom calls aloud outside; She raises her voice in the open squares. 21 She cries out in the chief concourses, At the openings of the gates in the city She speaks her words: 22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge. Read v1 and down in this chapter and chapter 8 both are talking about wisdom and wisdom is personified. Pro 8:22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old". Now go back up to v1 and read down to the end of chapter, its wisdom from God that is calling out to the sons of men v 4, 1 Does not wisdom cry out, And understanding lift up her voice? 2 She takes her stand on the top of the high hill, Beside the way, where the paths meet. 3 She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city, At the entrance of the doors: 4 “To you, O men, I call, And my voice is to the sons of men. 5 O you simple ones, understand prudence, And you fools, be of an understanding heart. 6 Listen, for I will speak of excellent things, And from the opening of my lips will come right things; 7 For my mouth will speak truth; Wickedness is an abomination to my lips.8 All the words of my mouth are with righteousness; Nothing crooked or perverse is in them. 9 They are all plain to him who understands,
And right to those who find knowledge. 10 Receive my instruction, and not silver, And knowledge rather than choice gold; 11 For wisdom is better than rubies, And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.12 “I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And find out knowledge and discretion. 13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverse mouth I hate. 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom; I am understanding, I have strength. 15 By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, and nobles, All the judges of the earth. 17 I love those who love me, And those who seek me diligently will find me. 18 Riches and honor are with me, Enduring riches and righteousness.19 My fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold, And my revenue than choice silver. 20 I traverse the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice, 21 That I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth, That I may fill their treasuries. 22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,Before His works of old. One can see how it is wisdom being spoken and notice v 17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently will find me. Pronoun are capitalized for the Lord, beside wisdom says in the first part of this verse I love those who love me, does not the Lord love all so much that He sent His Son into the world to save sinners? Rom 5:8 God demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Beginning in Proverbs 8, pertaining to the attributes of God's Wisdom, I refer specifically to verses 22 through 36, that clearly identify the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus Christ as the WHO, of the Wisdom of God. [From the NIV].

"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deed of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning,

before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24]
when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. [Vs 24-26]

I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28]

when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30]

rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33]

Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and
receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36]

That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is made abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3


Quasar92

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

Beginning in Proverbs 8, pertaining to the attributes of God's Wisdom, I refer specifically to verses 22 through 36, that clearly identify the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus Christ as the WHO, of the Wisdom of God. [From the NIV].

"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deed of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning,

before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24]
when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. [Vs 24-26]

I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28]

when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30]

rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33]

Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and
receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36]

That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is made abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3


Quasar92

That Jesus is the wisdom of God is true, but this is what God has chosen to give us His wisdom through faith in Jesus His Son instead of the wisdom that the world can provide. God's wisdom only comes through Jesus, by the illuminating power of the Holy Spirit. Eph 2:18 For through Him(Jesus) we both
(Jews and Gentiles) have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Pro 1:7 the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and instruction. This wisdom and knowledge comes only through faith in the Son. Nevertheless Proverbs 1 and 8 specifically are talking about the wisdom and understanding of the word of God as opposed to the wisdom of the world. To read out of chapter 8 from the first verse down one can clearly see the subject is the wisdom which leads to Christ and doing God's word. That is why Solomon asked for wisdom when God told him to ask for anything and He would give it to him, Solomon stated when he was young he was told to seek wisdom above all things, and that should be our goal also because the fear(reverential awe) of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and instruction. The fear of the Lord Pro 8:13 is to hate evil, therefore at conversion when the Holy Spirit enters the believers He gives them this reverence for God and the hatred of sin(evil) just as Jesus had while walking as a man, Isa 11:1-5 There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots. 2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. 3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears; 4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked. 5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins, And faithfulness the belt of His waist.
And reading on down to 22-29 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. 23 I have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills, I was brought forth; 26 While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields, Or the primal dust of the world. 27. When it speaks of the Lord possessing me before His works of old, you see the word me is small letters and the Lord is capitalized, the Lord had this wisdom of course before He created anything, He is all knowing as I said, nothing ever occurs to God, He knows all.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

My post #69 clearly reveals the Scriptural facts pertaining to the exclusive names of Almighty God, the Father and Yeshua the Son. I wrote nothing about the Trinity. All the sites I have participated on have no problem allowing free discussion about it, to allow Scriptural truth to prevail. Not allowing it is censorship.


Quasar92

I agree that it is censorship, but thus...that is the way it is.

Again, I say that if Jesus Christ is not Almighty God, then that would mean we would have to have at least two different Gods.

It is important to think about. Is Jesus Almighty God, or is He only divine? That is the question at stake here.

Well, true -- you didn't write about all three -- but any time we are talking about Jesus and the Father, and saying that one is Almighty God and the other isn't....then we are involved in regard to discussing the trinity.

Anyway, it would have been more accurate if I had said the doctrine of the Deity of Christ then. So...what we are discussing is in regard to the Deity of Christ.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Review the autobiography of the pre-incarnate Jesus in Pr.8:22-36, Col.1:15 confirms, along with Jn.14:28.


Quasasr92

As I have said before, I don't believe that Proverbs 8 is talking about Jesus. Why?

Because other Bible verses show that Jesus was uncreated, and show His full Deity.

Colossians 1:15 talks about Jesus being firstborn in the sense that He has supremacy/first place in everything. Firstborn does not mean first created. If you read Colossians 1:15 in its context, it is evident that it is talking about Jesus having first place in everything.

John 14:28 doesn't say Jesus was created. It just shows that Jesus is not the Father, and that the Father is not Jesus.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

He was God living in Human flesh, but not the Fullness of God living in Human flesh, the Fullness of Gods Glory would consume a flesh body.

Where does it say in Scripture that the fullness of God's glory would consume a flesh body? You are contradicting Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. These verses say that "all the fullness." This leaves nothing out. Jesus wasn't 95% God when He walked on the earth. Jesus was 100% God and 100% human, at the same time.

The point about Adam was that he was not God like Jesus, thus when tempted he fell,
Jesus was tempted, but of course God is PERFECT. In reality you can temp God but you can't succeed, if that makes sense. God is the Word and the Word id God/Jesus, thus Jesus said IT IS WRITTEN.................The Word is the EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD/JESUS, that is why John said the Word is God:

John 1:1 is the first verse in the opening chapter of the Gospel of John. In the Douay–Rheims, King James, New International, and other versions of the Bible, the verse reads: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I fully agree that the Word was God, and that Jesus was 100% God.

He was God and Flesh, so he can't be fully Human, he was not born of a Human Father.

I disagree with you here. Jesus was also 100% human. As I said earlier, Jesus was both 100% God, and 100% human at the same time.

What you're saying sounds like you think Jesus was 50% God and 50% human (or some other percentage.) This would deny that Jesus was both fully (100%) God and fully (100%) human.

No, Joesph was not Jesus' biological father -- however, that doesn't make Him any less human.

He was Fully Human as per being flesh, but he was also fully God.

This contradicts what you said earlier, but I agree that Jesus is 100% God and 100% human at the same time.

Therefore he was only TEMPTED like us, but being God he did not fall like we did, God could have turned evil long before He created mankind if he wanted to, but of course God being Holy does not desire to be Evil. Jesus is the same, he has no desire to be evil, nor was born under the Sin Curse. His Flesh knew no sin.

I agree that Jesus was without sin, and that He was without original sin.

Jesus is NOT the Father. He is God but NOT the Father.

I fully agree. I have said this many times.

Jesus returned to earth after he ascended in John ch. 20.

As I tried to show in a previous post, the ascension is not even mentioned in the Gospel of John. It appears only in Luke and in Acts. What John 20 is talking about is Jesus' appearances to the disciples after the resurrection, but before the ascension. The resurrection and the ascension are not the same thing.

You have the Father and Jesus mixed up. Both are God, Jesus is the Redeemer, God is the Father, the Glory lies with the Father.

As I showed from John 17:5, Jesus and the Father shared in the same glory before the world began. The transfiguration shows that Jesus still had the glory -- it was just veiled while being on earth.

If you believe that Jesus alone is the Redeemer, you will have to acknowledge that like the Father, He is Yahweh. The Father and Son are the same God, but different Persons.

I think that redemption is a trinitarian act, as everything that God does is trinitarian. So, I don't think that only Jesus is the Redeemer. However, if you think so, then you will have to acknowledge that Jesus is YHWH, as well as the Father is YHWH, and that the Holy Spirit is YHWH.

Since LORD = YHWH (Yahweh)

Isaiah 43:14 (NASB)
14 Thus says the LORD your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel,
“For your sake I have sent to Babylon,
And will bring them all down as fugitives,
Even the Chaldeans, into the ships in which they rejoice.
15 “I am the LORD, your Holy One,
The Creator of Israel, your King.”

Isaiah 44:6 (NASB)
6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
‘I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 44:24 (NASB)
24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb,
“I, the LORD, am the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth all alone,

Isaiah 47:4 (NASB)
Our Redeemer, the LORD of hosts is His name,
The Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 48:17 (NASB)
17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel,
“I am the LORD your God, who teaches you to profit,
Who leads you in the way you should go.

Isaiah 49:7 (NASB)
Thus says the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel and its Holy One,
To the despised One,
To the One abhorred by the nation,
To the Servant of rulers,
“Kings will see and arise,
Princes will also bow down,
Because of the LORD who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel who has chosen You.”

Isaiah 54:5 (NASB)
“For your husband is your Maker,
Whose name is the LORD of hosts;
And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel,
Who is called the God of all the earth.

Isaiah 60:16 (NASB)
“You will also suck the milk of nations
And suck the breast of kings;
Then you will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior
And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

Well then you are 100 Percent wrong on that Sister.....I have been preaching for 30 Years, that is kind of a scary statement, at least to me. The Father sends Jesus back, the Son doesn't even know when hes returning. That is scriptural.

I'm guessing you misread what I wrote (what you were replying to here) -- either because of confirmation bias (you assume that I believe that Jesus is the Father, so you assumed that is what I was saying, even though it wasn't), or because of skipping over the word "not." But maybe I'm wrong?

The FULLNESS of his Godhead/Authority, and Likeness, not the Fullness of his Glory. Only the Father has the fullness of the Glory. He is God, just like God, but he is not the Father.

I agree that Jesus is not the Father. However, if Jesus and the Father are both God, then they must be the same God -- otherwise there would be at least two gods. So, if Yahweh is the only God, then both the Father and the Son have to be Him.

The Glory is not full with Jesus, else when we saw him we couldn't talk to him like the Disciples did. I can only explain it brother..........

Jesus veiled His glory while on earth. This doesn't mean He didn't have it, or that He had some lesser amount of it.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

Titus 2:13 Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Quasar92]

As I have said before, I don't believe that Proverbs 8 is talking about Jesus. Why?

Because other Bible verses show that Jesus was uncreated, and show His full Deity.

Colossians 1:15 talks about Jesus being firstborn in the sense that He has supremacy/first place in everything. Firstborn does not mean first created. If you read Colossians 1:15 in its context, it is evident that it is talking about Jesus having first place in everything.

John 14:28 doesn't say Jesus was created. It just shows that Jesus is not the Father, and that the Father is not Jesus.

As I have said before, I don't believe that Proverbs 8 is talking about Jesus. Why?

Because other Bible verses show that Jesus was uncreated, and show His full Deity.

Colossians 1:15 talks about Jesus being firstborn in the sense that He has supremacy/first place in everything. Firstborn does not mean first created. If you read Colossians 1:15 in its context, it is evident that it is talking about Jesus having first place in everything.

John 14:28 doesn't say Jesus was created. It just shows that Jesus is not the Father, and that the Father is not Jesus.

As you have been shown, the Scriptures clearly reveal YHWH is the exclusive name for Almighty God and Y'Shua, is the name of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, as recorded in my post #69, together with Jn.3:16; Mt.1:20 and Lk,1:35.

Beginning in Proverbs 8, pertaining to the attributes of God's Wisdom, I refer specifically to verses 22 through 36, that clearly identify the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus Christ as the WHO, of the Wisdom of God. [From the NIV].

"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deed of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning,

before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24]
when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. [Vs 24-26]

I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28]

when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30]

rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33]

Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and
receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36]

That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is made abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3

From the above, the Word of God clearly reveals the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus Christ was given birth/possessed and is therefore not 'co-eternal' with the Spirit of God, as God stated clearly in Isa.43:10 and 44:6. [Please note: See below as to when Jesus did become the Son of God and literally God the Son] The same passage of Scripture also clearly reveals there are two 'personages' involved, not just one. God, who is the Father and the pre-incarnate Spirit of Jesus Christ.

In the KJV, is another example of the pre-incarnate Spirit of Jesus being givrn birth, in their translation of Pr.8:22, which reads as follows: "The Lord POSSESSED me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old." In a review of Gen.14:19 and 22, the term POSSESS in both, means CREATOR, i.e., that God CREATED the heavens and the earth, confirming Col.1:15, the FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION. [Jesus received His deity from His Father as recorded in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35.

To further reinforce the Pr.8:22-36 passage, it can also be seen in Col.1:15, that Jesus is/was the FIRSTBORN over all creation. And in vs 18, it is written that He is the FIRSTBORN from the dead. Let it be crystal clear, the term, 'FIRSTBORN' means exactly the same in both verses! It means FIRSTBORN, not of everlasting eternity, but rather, as in Pr.8:22, He was brought forth, as the first of YHWH's works, before the world began

Fully endorsed by the following esteemed men of God from every walk of Christian teaching:

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.



Quasar92

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

Isa 9:6-7 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this. NAS