Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?

Quasar92 · Oct 9, 2017

iwbswiaihl said:
If He did not become God until Matt 1:20 how did He create all things in the beginning and how was He with God before He came to become that little baby boy who was God in the flesh? John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Review Pr.8:22-36 that Col.1:15 and Heb.1:1-2 confirm.

Quasar92

Baby Cottontail · Oct 9, 2017

Quasar92 said:
I wrote that I was a qualified Bible teacher. I earned them at Prairie Bible Institute, in Three Hills, Alberta. Canada and at Liberty University, in Lynchburg, Va. Since I am also a WWII vet, in my 94th year, I am retired. I have been a participnt on Christian discussion forums for the better part of 20 years. Ten as an administrator of two different web sites, in addition to founding my own site.

Quasar92

I am impressed that you are a 94 year old on here. Wow. I am guessing that you are the oldest member in this forum. Thanks for telling me where you got your training. What is your own site?

Quasar92 · Oct 9, 2017

Baby Cottontail said:
I am impressed that you are a 94 year old on here. Wow. I am guessing that you are the oldest member in this forum. Thanks for telling me where you got your training. What is your own site?

My site has had two host turnovers since I founded it and it is a real mess right now. The last change was just recently and they completely changed my original format. As I use it today as a data base only, I seldom have posters any more because of the difficulty in finding what you are looking for, and the redundancy they left the site posts in. The address is: Nothing from there is to be brought to this site without my permission.

a deeper walk... - Index page

Quasar92/

Baby Cottontail · Oct 9, 2017

Quasar92 said:
My site has had two host turnovers since I founded it and it is a real mess right now. The last change was just recently and they completely changed my original format. As I use it today as a data base only, I seldom have posters any more because of the difficulty in finding what you are looking for, and the redundancy they left the site posts in. The address is: Nothing from there is to be brought to this site without my permission.

a deeper walk... - Index page

Quasar92/

Thanks. Don't worry. I won't quote you or use anything from your site. I just wanted to see more of where you were coming from.

Bible2+ · Oct 10, 2017

Quasar92 said in post #43:

Review Jn.14:28; 17:3 and 5. YHWH IS NOT YAHWHUA, nor is Yahshua, YHWH.

Those passages only show that Jesus isn't the Father. They in no way contradict that Jesus is also referred to as YHWH (e.g. Zechariah 14:3-4).

*******

Quasar92 said in post #52:

The Word did not become God until in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35.

The Word has always been God (John 1:1).

So did you mean God the Word did not become God the Son until Matthew 1:20 and Luke 1:35? If so, that's right.

Quasar92 said in post #52:

Review the origin of the Firstborn over all creation [Col.1:15] in Pr.8:22-36.

Regarding Colossians 1:15, there "firstborn" means 1st in the sense of supremacy (Colossians 1:16) rather than chronology. For Jesus Christ was born, and so became the Son of God, only when Luke 1:35 was fulfilled at the time of Luke 2:11 in the 1st century AD (which was some 4,000 years after the birth of Cain in Genesis 4:1). A similar, non-chronological use of "firstborn" is found in Psalms 89:27, Jeremiah 31:9 and Exodus 4:22.

Regarding Proverbs 8:22-36, the speaker there can't be God the Word, because God the Word created everything that exists (John 1:3), whereas the speaker in Proverbs 8:22-36 is distinguished from the Creator in Proverbs 8:26.

Quasar92 · Oct 10, 2017

Bible2+ said:
Those passages only show that Jesus isn't the Father. They in no way contradict that Jesus is also referred to as YHWH (e.g. Zechariah 14:3-4).

*******

The Word has always been God (John 1:1).

So did you mean God the Word did not become God the Son until Matthew 1:20 and Luke 1:35? If so, that's right.

Regarding Colossians 1:15, there "firstborn" means 1st in the sense of supremacy (Colossians 1:16) rather than chronology. For Jesus Christ was born, and so became the Son of God, only when Luke 1:35 was fulfilled at the time of Luke 2:11 in the 1st century AD (which was some 4,000 years after the birth of Cain in Genesis 4:1). A similar, non-chronological use of "firstborn" is found in Psalms 89:27, Jeremiah 31:9 and Exodus 4:22.

Regarding Proverbs 8:22-36, the speaker there can't be God the Word, because God the Word created everything that exists (John 1:3), whereas the speaker in Proverbs 8:22-36 is distinguished from the Creator in Proverbs 8:26.

You labor under false pretenses. The Father and the Son are two very separate entities, as the Scriptures I provided you clearly reveal, whether you accept it or not. Where, may I ask, did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible?

As to who created the Universe, review Heb.1:1-2.

Quasar92

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 10, 2017

Bible2+ said:
Those passages only show that Jesus isn't the Father. They in no way contradict that Jesus is also referred to as YHWH (e.g. Zechariah 14:3-4).

.

Bible2+ · Oct 10, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said in post #67:

Excellent verse!

Zech 14:
3 Then shall YAHWEH go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east;........

Amen.

For Zechariah 14:3-4 shows Jesus Christ being referred to as YHWH. For it's referring to His future, Second Coming, and ties in with Acts 1:11.

That is, Jesus Christ will return "in like manner" as He ascended (Acts 1:11b), in that just as at the end of His 1st coming He was seen by literal eyes to ascend physically from the Mount of Olives into a literal cloud and on into heaven (Acts 1:9,12, cf. Luke 24:39), so at His future, Second Coming He will be seen in literal clouds by literal eyes (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30) to physically descend from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and set His feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:3-21).

--

Also, we must always remember that Hebrews 1:1-2 isn't contradicting that the world was made by God the Word (John 1:10), who has become flesh in Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14).

John 1:1 ¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 ¶And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.

Quasar92 · Oct 11, 2017

Bible2+ said:
Amen.

For Zechariah 14:3-4 shows Jesus Christ being referred to as YHWH. For it's referring to His future, Second Coming, and ties in with Acts 1:11.

That is, Jesus Christ will return "in like manner" as He ascended (Acts 1:11b), in that just as at the end of His 1st coming He was seen by literal eyes to ascend physically from the Mount of Olives into a literal cloud and on into heaven (Acts 1:9,12, cf. Luke 24:39), so at His future, Second Coming He will be seen in literal clouds by literal eyes (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30) to physically descend from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and set His feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:3-21).

--

Also, we must always remember that Hebrews 1:1-2 isn't contradicting that the world was made by God the Word (John 1:10), who has become flesh in Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14).

John 1:1 ¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 ¶And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.

Let je see how you make Zech.14:4-5 about Yeshua/Jesus out to be YHWH/Yahweah in any way shape of form. n Review the following Scriptural facts about such a heresy:

Yeshua the Messiah is Not Almighty Yahweh

Modern day Christians believe that Yeshua the Messiah pre-existed in some form or another. Some say he was Melchizedek, some say he was "the captain of the host of Yahweh" (Josh.5:14), some say he was the archangel Michael, others say he was the "angel of Yahweh". Perhaps the most erroneous view is that Yeshua was the "Yahweh" (LORD) of the Old Testament.

This study is written in the hopes that all who read it will finally understand that Yahweh is the Almighty Creator of the heavens and the earth, and that Yeshua the Messiah is His Son, as it is written. For some reason people feel they have to magnify the Savior into the position of the Almighty when, in fact, scripture makes it quite clear that the Father is greatest of all and the "head of Messiah" (1 Cor.11:3). Consider Yeshua's own words in Jn. 14:28, "...for my Father is greater than I."; Jn.10:29, "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all..."; and Jn. 13:16, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant [Yeshua] is not greater than his lord [Yahweh]; neither he that is sent [Yeshua] greater than he that sent him [Yahweh]." These verses teach us Yeshua's view of his relationship to his Father.

Notice he didn't claim to be the Father but instead, made a clear distinction between the two. Who is Yeshua's Father? Who does scripture say is the Father? Is.63:16 says, "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Yahweh, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting." Yahweh is the Father. Yet, some might claim that this scripture says Yahweh is the Father of Israel, not of Yeshua. In that case we need to note two other verses. The first is Heb.1:5; "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" Who said these things? All would agree that Yeshua's Father said them since He is referring to Yeshua as His Son.

Heb.1:5 is a direct quote from Ps.2:7; "I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." The first "I" here refers to Yeshua speaking through prophecy in which he declares that Yahweh is his Father! We also previously saw that Yeshua said, "My Father is greater than I." In reality he was also saying, "[Yahweh] is greater than I", thereby teaching us that he is not Yahweh. Anyone who believes Yeshua is Yahweh must also believe Yeshua is the Heavenly Father. That is even more absurd and more difficult to prove in the light of scripture. Who is the Elohim of Israel? Who does scripture say is the Elohim (God) of Israel? Is. 45:3 says, "And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, Yahweh, which call thee by thy name, am the Elohim of Israel." Yahweh is the Elohim of Israel. Since we already learned that Yeshua is not Yahweh, Yeshua cannot be the Elohim of Israel. This is confirmed in Acts 3:13, "The Elohim of

Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the Elohim of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua;..."

The Elohim of Jacob (Jacob being Israel) glorified His Son. Since the scriptures reveal the Elohim of Israel and the Father are both called Yahweh, some will go so far as to teach that there are two separate beings called Yahweh in order to support their erroneous belief that Yeshua pre-existed as Yahweh, Elohim of Israel. They use Gen.19:24 as proof of this; "Then Yahweh rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven;" At first glance there appear to be two Yahwehs, one in heaven and one somewhere near Sodom and Gomorrah. This is merely a figure of speech peculiar to the Hebrew language, an idiom. Similar idioms are seen in Eze.11:24 (two Spirits), Zech.10:12 ( two Yahwehs), Ex.24:1 (Yahweh used as idiom for "me"), Gen.17:23 (two Abrahams), and 1 Kgs.8:1 (two Solomons). It is impossible to harmonize the two Yahweh doctrine with verses that teach there is only one Yahweh. Consider Nehemiah's prayer; "Thou, even thou, art Yahweh alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee."

Neh 9:6 Ps 83:18 says; "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Yahweh, art the most high over all the earth." Is 45:6 says; "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Zech 14:9 reads; "And Yahweh shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Yahweh, and his name one." A second God cannot be named "Yahweh." Is.42:1 teaches us that Yeshua is Yahweh's servant. "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." And again in Is.49:6, "And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth."

Ps.2:2 reads, "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against Yahweh, and against his anointed." His "anointed" is Yeshua, making a clear distinction between the two. Peter applied this prophecy to Yeshua in Acts 4:26; "The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against Yahweh, and against His Messiah." Peter never claimed that the Messiah pre-existed as Yahweh.

For the complete article:

http://www.dividingword.net/Trinity/Yeshua the Messiah is Not Almighty Yahweh.pdf

By: John Cordaro

Quasar92

Revealing Times · Oct 11, 2017

Quasar92 said:
The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll.

Source: gotquestions.org

Quasar92

Jesus is God but he is NOT the Father. They are ONE in Spirit but not in OFFICE.

The Spirit means they stand for the exact same thing, in other words there LIKENESS is the same, they are both (all three really) Kind, Loving, Long-suffering, Hope, Honest, etc. all of he attributes of God. However Jesus does not have the FULLNESS of Gods Glory, only the Father has the fullness of the Glory. We can stand in the presence of Jesus, we have the Holy Spirit living in us, God the Father we can not even look upon lest we DIE !! His Glory is too vast.

Look at t like this.......God is a 3 Trillion gallon reservoir of PURE CLEAN WATER (Like God is Holy) and it is the exact same throughout. Take 100 gallons (Jesus) and pour it over your heads, you will be soaked in that PURE WATER but you will be OK. Take another 100 gallons (Holy Spirit) of the exact same water and pour it over your head, again you will be soaked, but OK.

Now take all 3 Trillion gallons (God) and pour it over your head, you will SURELY DIE !!

All three the EXACT SAME LIKENESS in Spirit (MAKE-UP) but wit three different offices. Jesus the Son, the Redeemer. The Holy Spirit, our Comforter and God the Father who retains all the Glory.

Baby Cottontail · Oct 11, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Let je see how you make Zech.14:4-5 about Yeshua/Jesus out to be YHWH/Yahweah in any way shape of form. n Review the following Scriptural facts about such a heresy:

Yeshua the Messiah is Not Almighty Yahweh

Modern day Christians believe that Yeshua the Messiah pre-existed in some form or another. Some say he was Melchizedek, some say he was "the captain of the host of Yahweh" (Josh.5:14), some say he was the archangel Michael, others say he was the "angel of Yahweh". Perhaps the most erroneous view is that Yeshua was the "Yahweh" (LORD) of the Old Testament.

This study is written in the hopes that all who read it will finally understand that Yahweh is the Almighty Creator of the heavens and the earth, and that Yeshua the Messiah is His Son, as it is written. For some reason people feel they have to magnify the Savior into the position of the Almighty when, in fact, scripture makes it quite clear that the Father is greatest of all and the "head of Messiah" (1 Cor.11:3). Consider Yeshua's own words in Jn. 14:28, "...for my Father is greater than I."; Jn.10:29, "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all..."; and Jn. 13:16, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant [Yeshua] is not greater than his lord [Yahweh]; neither he that is sent [Yeshua] greater than he that sent him [Yahweh]." These verses teach us Yeshua's view of his relationship to his Father.

Notice he didn't claim to be the Father but instead, made a clear distinction between the two. Who is Yeshua's Father? Who does scripture say is the Father? Is.63:16 says, "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Yahweh, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting." Yahweh is the Father. Yet, some might claim that this scripture says Yahweh is the Father of Israel, not of Yeshua. In that case we need to note two other verses. The first is Heb.1:5; "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" Who said these things? All would agree that Yeshua's Father said them since He is referring to Yeshua as His Son.

Heb.1:5 is a direct quote from Ps.2:7; "I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." The first "I" here refers to Yeshua speaking through prophecy in which he declares that Yahweh is his Father! We also previously saw that Yeshua said, "My Father is greater than I." In reality he was also saying, "[Yahweh] is greater than I", thereby teaching us that he is not Yahweh. Anyone who believes Yeshua is Yahweh must also believe Yeshua is the Heavenly Father. That is even more absurd and more difficult to prove in the light of scripture. Who is the Elohim of Israel? Who does scripture say is the Elohim (God) of Israel? Is. 45:3 says, "And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, Yahweh, which call thee by thy name, am the Elohim of Israel." Yahweh is the Elohim of Israel. Since we already learned that Yeshua is not Yahweh, Yeshua cannot be the Elohim of Israel. This is confirmed in Acts 3:13, "The Elohim of

Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the Elohim of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua;..."

The Elohim of Jacob (Jacob being Israel) glorified His Son. Since the scriptures reveal the Elohim of Israel and the Father are both called Yahweh, some will go so far as to teach that there are two separate beings called Yahweh in order to support their erroneous belief that Yeshua pre-existed as Yahweh, Elohim of Israel. They use Gen.19:24 as proof of this; "Then Yahweh rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven;" At first glance there appear to be two Yahwehs, one in heaven and one somewhere near Sodom and Gomorrah. This is merely a figure of speech peculiar to the Hebrew language, an idiom. Similar idioms are seen in Eze.11:24 (two Spirits), Zech.10:12 ( two Yahwehs), Ex.24:1 (Yahweh used as idiom for "me"), Gen.17:23 (two Abrahams), and 1 Kgs.8:1 (two Solomons). It is impossible to harmonize the two Yahweh doctrine with verses that teach there is only one Yahweh. Consider Nehemiah's prayer; "Thou, even thou, art Yahweh alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee."

Neh 9:6 Ps 83:18 says; "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Yahweh, art the most high over all the earth." Is 45:6 says; "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Zech 14:9 reads; "And Yahweh shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Yahweh, and his name one." A second God cannot be named "Yahweh." Is.42:1 teaches us that Yeshua is Yahweh's servant. "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." And again in Is.49:6, "And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth."

Ps.2:2 reads, "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against Yahweh, and against his anointed." His "anointed" is Yeshua, making a clear distinction between the two. Peter applied this prophecy to Yeshua in Acts 4:26; "The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against Yahweh, and against His Messiah." Peter never claimed that the Messiah pre-existed as Yahweh.

For the complete article:

http://www.dividingword.net/Trinity/Yeshua the Messiah is Not Almighty Yahweh.pdf

By: John Cordaro

Quasar92

You do realize that this post violates forum rules via the promotion of a non-Trinitarian viewpoint, right?

To claim that Jesus is not Yahweh is to deny the Trinity. It means that there would have to be more than one God, and it would mean that Jesus is not God Almighty, and that Jesus is not God in the flesh.

There is one God, and that is YHWH -- the God of the whole Bible.
He is triune -- the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father,
The Holy Spirit is not the Son, the Holy Spirit is not the Father
The Father is not the Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Holy Spirit

In other words:
The Father = Yahweh
The Son = Yahweh
The Holy Spirit = Yahweh
The whole triune God = Yahweh

Yahweh is not just the Father.

Baby Cottontail · Oct 11, 2017

Revealing Times said:
Jesus is God but he is NOT the Father. They are ONE in Spirit but not in OFFICE.

The Spirit means they stand for the exact same thing, in other words there LIKENESS is the same, they are both (all three really) Kind, Loving, Long-suffering, Hope, Honest, etc. all of he attributes of God. However Jesus does not have the FULLNESS of Gods Glory, only the Father has the fullness of the Glory. We can stand in the presence of Jesus, we have the Holy Spirit living in us, God the Father we can not even look upon lest we DIE !! His Glory is too vast.

Look at t like this.......God is a 3 Trillion gallon reservoir of PURE CLEAN WATER (Like God is Holy) and it is the exact same throughout. Take 100 gallons (Jesus) and pour it over your heads, you will be soaked in that PURE WATER but you will be OK. Take another 100 gallons (Holy Spirit) of the exact same water and pour it over your head, again you will be soaked, but OK.

Now take all 3 Trillion gallons (God) and pour it over your head, you will SURELY DIE !!

All three the EXACT SAME LIKENESS in Spirit (MAKE-UP) but wit three different offices. Jesus the Son, the Redeemer. The Holy Spirit, our Comforter and God the Father who retains all the Glory.

Jesus shared the exact same glory that the Father had before the world began. It was veiled while Jesus was on earth, but we got to see a glimpse of it in the transfiguration.

Revealing Times · Oct 11, 2017

Baby Cottontail said:
Jesus shared the exact same glory that the Father had before the world began. It was veiled while Jesus was on earth, but we got to see a glimpse of it in the transfiguration.

No he doesn't, you are confusing LIKENESS and GLORY. No man can look upon the Glory of God, Jesus came back after he Ascended, see John ch. 20, Jesus is in the Midst of the Church.

Even an illustration didn't make you understand the difference. They are the SAME in Spirit, they all three LOVE the same, HOPE the same, are all HONEST, are all PERFECT but only the Father has the FULLNESS of the Glory.

You not getting that is on you brother.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 11, 2017

Revealing Times said:
.. but only the Father has the FULLNESS of the Glory..

In what way does that compare to Christ being the fullness of the Godhead?
Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily ...

iwbswiaihl2 · Oct 11, 2017

Revealing Times said:
Jesus is God but he is NOT the Father. They are ONE in Spirit but not in OFFICE.

The Spirit means they stand for the exact same thing, in other words there LIKENESS is the same, they are both (all three really) Kind, Loving, Long-suffering, Hope, Honest, etc. all of he attributes of God. However Jesus does not have the FULLNESS of Gods Glory, only the Father has the fullness of the Glory. We can stand in the presence of Jesus, we have the Holy Spirit living in us, God the Father we can not even look upon lest we DIE !! His Glory is too vast.

Look at t like this.......God is a 3 Trillion gallon reservoir of PURE CLEAN WATER (Like God is Holy) and it is the exact same throughout. Take 100 gallons (Jesus) and pour it over your heads, you will be soaked in that PURE WATER but you will be OK. Take another 100 gallons (Holy Spirit) of the exact same water and pour it over your head, again you will be soaked, but OK.

Now take all 3 Trillion gallons (God) and pour it over your head, you will SURELY DIE !!

All three the EXACT SAME LIKENESS in Spirit (MAKE-UP) but wit three different offices. Jesus the Son, the Redeemer. The Holy Spirit, our Comforter and God the Father who retains all the Glory.

Mark 8:38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.” John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. Phil 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God.

The Father is the Invisible God, no form, not a spirit, He is Spirit. Jesus is God in the flesh, the exact likeness of what God would be if He became flesh, in fact, that is the same description of Jesus, Emmanuel God in the flesh. The same glory that Jesus shared with Him before the world began. The glory of God that Moses saw when he appeared on the mountain, he did not die, and the description of Jesus in His glory is far above what Jesus the man looked like. The point that I make is that Jesus is no less of anything with the members of the Godhead, one could not have the fullness of the Godhead bodily without the fullness meaning the same. Now we have all the fullness of the Holy Spirit living in us, though being omniscience He is everywhere just as fully as He is in me and you. The Godhead bodily is what scripture says.

Baby Cottontail · Oct 11, 2017

Revealing Times said:
No he doesn't, you are confusing LIKENESS and GLORY. No man can look upon the Glory of God,

These verses together also show that Jesus is Yahweh.

Isaiah 41:8 (NASB)
8 “I am the LORD, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.

Isaiah 48:11 (NASB)
11 “For My own sake, for My own sake, I will act;
For how can My name be profaned?
And My glory I will not give to another.

John 17:5 (NASB)
5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus and the Father shared the same glory together before the world was even created. Since Yahweh won't give His glory to another, both the Father and Jesus have to be Yahweh.

Matthew 17:1-8 (NASB)
17 Six days later Jesus *took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and *led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. 7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.” 8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.

Revealing Times said:
Jesus came back after he Ascended, see John ch. 20, Jesus is in the Midst of the Church.

Even an illustration didn't make you understand the difference. They are the SAME in Spirit, they all three LOVE the same, HOPE the same, are all HONEST, are all PERFECT but only the Father has the FULLNESS of the Glory.

You not getting that is on you brother.

Uh....John 20 takes place before the ascension. John 20 has to do with Jesus' resurrection. John doesn't mention the ascension. The resurrection is not the same thing as the ascension. Luke and Acts mention the ascension.

Luke 24:50-53 (NASB)
50 And He led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. 51 While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven. 52 And they, after worshiping Him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, 53 and were continually in the temple praising God.

Acts 1:9-11 (NASB)
9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Revealing Times · Oct 11, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
In what way does that compare to Christ being the fullness of the Godhead?
Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily ...

Jesus has the Fullness of Authority (Godhead). Jesus is NOT the Father, thus only the Father knows when Jesus is returning for the Bride. This isn't that difficult guys. You are trying to equate the offices, which is what ONE in THREE means, all the Same in likeness (Spirit) or what they STAND FOR bt all three with different offices.

Revealing Times · Oct 11, 2017

iwbswiaihl said:
Mark 8:38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.” John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. Phil 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God.

The Father is the Invisible God, no form, not a spirit, He is Spirit. Jesus is God in the flesh, the exact likeness of what God would be if He became flesh, in fact, that is the same description of Jesus, Emmanuel God in the flesh. The same glory that Jesus shared with Him before the world began. The glory of God that Moses saw when he appeared on the mountain, he did not die, and the description of Jesus in His glory is far above what Jesus the man looked like. The point that I make is that Jesus is no less of anything with the members of the Godhead, one could not have the fullness of the Godhead bodily without the fullness meaning the same. Now we have all the fullness of the Holy Spirit living in us, though being omniscience He is everywhere just as fully as He is in me and you. The Godhead bodily is what scripture says.

Yes and Jesus is a PART of that Spirit, as is the Holy Spirit, God is ALL of that same Spirit (The Fullness of the Glory). Jesus is the EXACT LIKENESS in the Flesh because he was not born into Sin, guess what, Adam was not born into sin either, we likewise have the Holy Spirit in us to bring us towards Gods LIKENESS, but God can not live fully in or Flesh Bodies, we would be consumed.

God can not live in the presence of Sin. Have you ever wonder why God left Jesus on the cross all alone? When our sins came upon the Master, God had to leave, all of men's sins were upon Jesus, that is why Jesus said "My God, My God, why have you foresaken (left) me".

You thinking Jesus is the fullness of God is just way off kilter. Moses could not look upon God lest he die, Moses looked at the hinder parts and it turned is hair gray. Moses did look upon Jesus, who is not FLESH PER SE, Jesus was with God during Creation (Let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likeness) Moses looked upon I AM the burning bush...........what did Jesus tell the Pharisees? He told them their father Abraham had seen him, he then told them he was I AM THAT I AM !!

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

So Moses saw the same I am i the burning bush. He looked upon I am that I am but Moses couldn't look upon the Father. Do you not get that there is a difference in Glory? The Glory is the same, but God has the FULLNESS of the Glory, that is why he us the Father.

If you throw yourself on a burning branch you will be burned, but not killed, if you throw your self into a burning house you will be killed. God has the Fullness of the Glory.

By the way you do not have he FULLNESS of the Holy Spirit living in you, you have a PORTION of the Hly Spirit living in you and you must needs be refilled at intervals.

Baby Cottontail · Oct 11, 2017

Revealing Times said:
Jesus has the Fullness of Authority (Godhead). Jesus is NOT the Father, thus only the Father knows when Jesus is returning for the Bride. This isn't that difficult guys. You are trying to equate the offices, which is what ONE in THREE means, all the Same in likeness (Spirit) or what they STAND FOR bt all three with different offices.

I am not saying that Jesus is the Father. Jesus and the Father are clearly different Persons. Jesus prays to the Father, the Father sent Jesus, etc.

I am saying that Jesus and the Father are the same God, Yahweh.

Yahweh is not only the Father. He is all three Persons. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus is not Yahweh, we would have more than one God.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the same Being and the same God.

Revealing Times · Oct 11, 2017

Baby Cottontail said:
These verses together also show that Jesus is Yahweh.

Isaiah 41:8 (NASB)
8 “I am the LORD, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.

Isaiah 48:11 (NASB)
11 “For My own sake, for My own sake, I will act;
For how can My name be profaned?
And My glory I will not give to another.

John 17:5 (NASB)
5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus and the Father shared the same glory together before the world was even created. Since Yahweh won't give His glory to another, both the Father and Jesus have to be Yahweh.

Matthew 17:1-8 (NASB)
17 Six days later Jesus *took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and *led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. 7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.” 8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.

Uh....John 20 takes place before the ascension. John 20 has to do with Jesus' resurrection. John doesn't mention the ascension. The resurrection is not the same thing as the ascension. Luke and Acts mention the ascension.

Luke 24:50-53 (NASB)
50 And He led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. 51 While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven. 52 And they, after worshiping Him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, 53 and were continually in the temple praising God.

Acts 1:9-11 (NASB)
9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Psalm 110:1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

You trying to say that Jesus is the Father is just WEIRD Brother.

Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?

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