Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?

[jaybird88]

The Most High is one YHWH God:

Deuteronomy 6:4 ¶Hear, O Israel: YHWH our God is one YHWH . . .
5 And thou shalt love YHWH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

But the one YHWH God includes both God the Father and God the Son (Hebrews 1:8). For Jesus Christ said:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

then it should be THEY are one which is not what the scripture says. Jesus even refers to Himself and the Most High as US. and refers to the Most High as HE

John 17:21-23, doesn't mean the Church will become YHWH. For John 17:21-23 refers to Christians becoming one with each other, as in one body of Christ (Ephesians 4:4, Colossians 1:18).

sorry but Jesus says that they may be one in Father and Son just the same as as the Father and Son are one.
how can you say its different when Jesus says its the same? i would never be willing to go that far just to make a doctrine work.

 

[Bible2+]

jaybird88 said in post #121:

then it should be THEY are one which is not what the scripture says.

Actually, it does, elsewhere. For compare the "us" in Genesis 1:26.

jaybird88 said in post #121:

Jesus even refers to Himself and the Most High as US. and refers to the Most High as HE

That's when He's referring to God the Father, who is a distinct Person from God the Son (Hebrews 1:8).

jaybird88 said in post #121:

Jesus says that they may be one in Father and Son just the same as as the Father and Son are one.

That's right, but one in themselves, not one with God in the sense of them becoming God.

 

[jaybird88]

Actually, it does, elsewhere. For compare the "us" in Genesis 1:26.

the Most High could just as well be speaking to the sons of the Most High who we know where there at the creation. this to me makes more sense being as everywhere else Most High always refers to Himself as I.

That's when He's referring to God the Father, who is a distinct Person from God the Son (Hebrews 1:8).

its also the only way He refers to the Most High. no where in scripture does anyone refer to the Most High as they.

That's right, but one in themselves, not one with God in the sense of them becoming God.

in other words not one the same way even though Jesus says one the same way. makes no sense to me

 

[Bible2+]

jaybird88 said in post #123:

the Most High could just as well be speaking to the sons of the Most High . . .

Or in Genesis 1:26 that Person of the Most High called God the Father was speaking to that Person of the Most High called God the Word (John 1:1) who would later become flesh (John 1:14) as God the Son (Hebrews 1:8).

jaybird88 said in post #123:

. . . who we know where there at the creation.

Note that the Person of the Most High called God the Word (John 1:1) is the Creator (John 1:3). And He Himself is uncreated God like the Father, because He created absolutely everything that has been created (John 1:3).

jaybird88 said in post #123:

this to me makes more sense being as everywhere else Most High always refers to Himself as I.

Note that nothing requires that He does that always. Compare Genesis 11:7, for example.

Also, one of the Persons of the Most High can refer to Himself as "I" without contradicting that the Most High is more than one Person (Hebrews 1:8)..

jaybird88 said in post #123:

no where in scripture does anyone refer to the Most High as they.

If that is true (and it might not be), it would point to the divine unity of the Persons of the Most High (John 10:30), and that we must worship only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4-5).

jaybird88 said in post #123:

in other words not one the same way even though Jesus says one the same way.

John 17:21-23 means one in a similar way to John 10:30, but there is no mixing of the groups, in that John 17:21-23 means Christians are one body with each other (Ephesians 4:4); and the Father and the Son are one God with each other (John 10:30). But the Church is not one with God in the sense of being God.

 

[jaybird88]

Also, one of the Persons of the Most High can refer to Himself as "I" without contradicting that the Most High is more than one Person (Hebrews 1:8)..

that is a contradiction unless you have three gods who are all equal which is the way Canaanites worshiped. the Most High of Jesus commands us not to walk in those ways

If that is true (and it might not be), it would point to the divine unity of the Persons of the Most High (John 10:30), and that we must worship only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4-5).

the Most High says there is no god with Him but your saying the Most High has persons with Him that are G-D? that seems to go against scripture to me.

John 17:21-23 means one in a similar way to John 10:30, but there is no mixing of the groups, in that John 17:21-23 means Christians are one body with each other (Ephesians 4:4); and the Father and the Son are one God with each other (John 10:30). But the Church is not one with God in the sense of being God.

Jesus does not say a similar way, He says the same way. but it sounds like you saying not the same way because the man made doctrine is above the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Bible2+]

jaybird88 said in post #125:

that is a contradiction unless you have three gods . . .

The Trinity is not 3 Gods, but one God (cf. John 10:30) in 3 Persons (cf. Hebrews 1:8).

jaybird88 said in post #125:

. . . the Most High of Jesus commands us not to walk in those ways

Note that Jesus is also God (John 1:1,14), and so He is also the Most High (Philippians 2:10, Isaiah 45:23).

That's why Psalms 57:2 in the original Hebrew refers to God Most High in the plural form: "Elohiym Most High". And the original Hebrew of Psalms 78:56 similarly refers to "the Most High Elohiym".

jaybird88 said in post #125:

the Most High says there is no god with Him but your saying the Most High has persons with Him that are G-D?

There is no God beside the Most High (Isaiah 43:10), yet He consists of more than one Person (Hebrews 1:8).

jaybird88 said in post #125:

Jesus does not say a similar way, He says the same way.

John 17:21 means that just as all Christians are one body (Ephesians 4:4), so the Father and the Son are one God (John 10:30).

 

[jaybird88]

The Trinity is not 3 Gods, but one God (cf. John 10:30) in 3 Persons (cf. Hebrews 1:8).

three is three is three. i dont care how you word spin it, its always three, Jesus teaches the Most High is one.

There is no God beside the Most High (Isaiah 43:10), yet He consists of more than one Person (Hebrews 1:8).

i dont think thats what the Most High meant when He says there is no god with Him. think what your saying, there is no god with Him but there is a person with Him and that person is G-D?? IMO the Most High says this over and over throughout the scripture to put extra emphases on the fact He is one. 3 in 1 will never be one no matter how put it.

John 17:21 means that just as all Christians are one body (Ephesians 4:4), so the Father and the Son are one God (John 10:30).

your missing one key word, Jesus says the oneness is the same, i dont know how else to explain it.
same means two or more things that are identical, not opposite or different.
i dont get it. the way you seem to interpret scripture, any bible passage can be spun to mean whatever you want it to say. especially when you have two things Jesus says are the same and you change to two things that are not the same. wow . . . .i mean . . .wow!

 

[Bible2+]

jaybird88 said in post #127:

three is three is three. i dont care how you word spin it, its always three . . .

Note that 3 can be one, like how we refer to space as one area, even though it consists of 3 distinct dimensions at the same time. We don't refer to these as 3 "spaces", just as we don't refer to 3 Gods.

jaybird88 said in post #127:

Jesus teaches the Most High is one.

The Most High is one God (John 10:30) who consists of more than one Person (Hebrews 1:8).

jaybird88 said in post #127:

there is no god with Him but there is a person with Him and that person is G-D??

Deuteronomy 32:39 means there is no God besides the God of the Bible. It isn't contradicting that Jesus is that God (John 1:1,14).

jaybird88 said in post #127:

3 in 1 will never be one no matter how put it.

Note that 3 can be one, like how in a pitcher of water and ice cubes, with water vapor on the top, the one substance H20 exists in 3 distinct states at the same time: liquid, solid, and gas.

In the same way, God the Father, God the Son (Hebrews 1:8), and God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) are one divine substance (John 10:30) which exists in 3 distinct Persons at the same time (Mark 1:9-11).

jaybird88 said in post #127:

. . . you have two things Jesus says are the same and you change to two things that are not the same.

Note that Jesus never says the Church is the same as God. Instead, John 17:21-23 means that just as the persons in the Church are one body (Ephesians 4:4), so the Persons of the Father and the Son are one God (John 10:30).

 

[jaybird88]

Note that 3 can be one, like how we refer to space as one area, even though it consists of 3 distinct dimensions at the same time. We don't refer to these as 3 "spaces", just as we don't refer to 3 Gods.

if three is really one according to the man made theology, whats the point of the Most High saying over and over and over that He is one.

Deuteronomy 32:39 means there is no God besides the God of the Bible. It isn't contradicting that Jesus is that God (John 1:1,14).

there is no G-D with Him but there is when the G-D is Jesus? then why does DT not just say that? your adding to the scripture.

Note that Jesus never says the Church is the same as God. Instead, John 17:21-23 means that just as the persons in the Church are one body (Ephesians 4:4), so the Persons of the Father and the Son are one God (John 10:30).

i never thought the church was the Most High. i said when Jesus says one thing is the same as another thing it makes them both the same, not different.
pretty simple to me.

 

[Bible2+]

jaybird88 said in post #129:

if three is really one according to the man made theology, whats the point of the Most High saying over and over and over that He is one.

The point of the 3 Persons of the Trinity being one God (cf. John 10:30) is that they are different than the pagan gods, who could disagree with each other and even war against each other. There is no rivalry in the Trinity. The Son is always submitted to the Father (John 12:49).

jaybird88 said in post #129:

there is no G-D with Him but there is when the G-D is Jesus?

Jesus is the same God as the Father (John 10:30).

jaybird88 said in post #129:

then why does DT not just say that? your adding to the scripture.

Note that nothing in Deuteronomy contradicts the scriptures I have referenced, which show that Jesus is God (e.g. John 1:1,14, Hebrews 1:8).

jaybird88 said in post #129:

i never thought the church was the Most High. i said when Jesus says one thing is the same as another thing it makes them both the same, not different.

Note that the Church not being the Most High means that they are different.