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Featured Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Quasar92, Oct 3, 2017.

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  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

    John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

    Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

    In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

    The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

    Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll.

    Source: gotquestions.org


    Quasar92
     
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  2. drjean

    drjean Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Good stuff.
    An important aspect that is often missed by non-Jewish Christians is the use of "I AM" by Jesus.

    Jesus' ministry prior to the resurrection was to the Jews, and this phrase of "I AM" had / has specific meaning of YHVH (Jehovah) Adonai.... meaning "I WILL BE" (as in He will always and has always been in the "present" tense of being. But it goes farther than this and is a great study.... as inherent in the name "I AM" / "JHVH" is the extent of all things being, as He is a "necessary" Being for all things being...

    In English well it reads as poor grammar... "before Abraham was... I AM" but in Hebrew it's totally understandable.

    In the laymen's language of koine Greek (meaning you don't have to have a degree to understand what is written ) it's ego eimi" I AM the One.
     
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That's right.

    For Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28, Titus 2:13, Philippians 2:6, Matthew 1:23). And He's uncreated God, just as God the Father is uncreated God. For everything created was created by Jesus (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17). Because Jesus is uncreated, there was never a time when He was not. He has always existed. He's YHWH the Holy One, from everlasting (Habakkuk 1:12a, Acts 3:14, Micah 5:2c). He's YHWH the only Savior (Isaiah 43:11, Titus 2:13), YHWH the good shepherd (Psalms 23:1, John 10:11, Mark 10:18), YHWH who will set His feet on the Mount of Olives at His return (Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12), YHWH the first and last (Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 2:8), YHWH the great I AM (Exodus 3:14, John 8:58), the great God (Titus 2:13), the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6), one God with God the Father (John 10:30, John 20:28), equal in divinity with God the Father (Philippians 2:6).

    Just as the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19) is the three distinct, coexisting Persons (Mark 1:9-11) of God the Father (Galatians 1:3), God the Son (Hebrews 1:8) and God the Holy Spirit (cf. Mark 13:11 and Matthew 10:19-20; Acts 5:3-4), so the Trinity is YHWH the Father, YHWH the Son and YHWH the Holy Spirit. For YHWH is the only God (Isaiah 45:5-6). He has always been and forever will be the only God (Isaiah 43:10b).
     
  4. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    OP: Q1: "Is Jesus "God"?
    Q2: "Did Jesus ever claim to be "God"?"

    Allow me to rephrase:
    Q1: "Is Jesus DIVINE / DEITY?
    A1: YES!

    Q2: "Did Jesus ever claim to be DIVINE / DEITY?"
    A2: YES!

    Matthew 26
    3 Then the chief priests and the elders of the people were gathered together in the court of the high priest, named Caiaphas; 4 and they plotted together to seize Jesus by stealth and kill Him.
    5 But they were saying, “Not during the festival, otherwise a riot might occur among the people.”...
    63 But Jesus kept silent.
    And the high priest said to Him,
    “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.”
    64 Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself;( I AGREE!) nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man (Son of God!) sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
    (SEE: 1 Thess. 4!)
    65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has blasphemed! (claim of DEITY!)
    What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy;
    66 what do you think?” They answered, “He deserves death!”

    Exodus 3
    13b‘What is His name?’ What shall I say to them?”
    14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”;
    and He said,
    “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, "I AM" has sent me to you.’”...
    15b This is My name ("I AM") forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.


    John 8
    39 They (Jewish leaders) answered and said to Him,
    “Abraham is our father.”
    Jesus *said to them,
    “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham.
    40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me,
    a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
    41 You are doing the deeds of your father.”
    They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication (immorality); we have one Father: God.”
    42 Jesus said to them,
    “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God,
    for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He SENT Me.
    43 Why do you not understand what I am saying?
    It is because you cannot hear My word.
    44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.
    He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him.
    Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
    45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
    46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin?
    If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?
    47 He who is of God hears the words of God;
    for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

    48 The Jews answered and said to Him,
    “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
    49 Jesus answered,
    “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.
    50 But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges.
    51 Truly, truly, I say to you,
    if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
    52 The Jews said to Him,
    “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say,
    ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’
    53 Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died?
    The prophets died too;
    whom do You make Yourself out to be?”
    54 Jesus answered,
    “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing;
    it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’;
    55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.
    56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
    57 So the Jews said to Him,
    “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
    58 Jesus said to them,
    “Truly, truly, I say to you,
    before Abraham was born, I am.” (EGO EIMI = pre-existent DEITY!)
    59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, (BLASPHEMY)but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.(ALL IN GOOD TIME!)

    Matthew 16:16
    Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

    John 11 (NASB)
    21 Martha then said to Jesus,
    “Lord, if You had been here, my brother (LAZARUS) would not have died.
    22 Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”
    23 Jesus *said to her,
    “Your brother will rise again.”
    24 Martha said to Him,
    “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”
    25 Jesus said to her,
    “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
    26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
    27 She said to Him,
    “Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.”

    John 10
    30 I and the Father are one.” (in spiritual essence and nature ONLY!...not IDENTITY!)

    31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. (BLASPHEMY!)
    32 Jesus answered them,
    “I showed you many good works from the Father;
    for which of them are you stoning Me?”
    33 The Jews answered Him,
    “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”
     
  5. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Q1: "Is Jesus DIVINE / DEITY?
    A1: YES!

    DEITY of JESUS the CHRIST, the DIVINE MESSIAH !

    1. Was/is Jesus Divine? Was/is Jesus Deity?=>yes!
    2. Did witnesses believe that Jesus was Divine? Deity?=>yes!
    3. Was Jesus the Divine Messiah, the Christ sent down / come down from heaven to save Man...Deity?=>yes!

    Colossians 2 ....
    9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity (TRUE GOD) dwells in bodily form, (TRUE MAN)
    10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

    Colossians 1 ....
    16 For by Him all things were created,
    both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities
    —all things have been created THROUGH Him and FOR Him.
    17 He is BEFORE all things, and
    in Him all things "hold together".
    18 He is also head of the body, the church;
    and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
    For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness (of Deity) to dwell in Him,
    20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself,
    having made peace through the blood of His cross;

    Jesus was completely human (TRUE MAN), but He also is Divine.(TRUE DEITY). He had a unique DUAL NATURE!

    DEITY
    He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9)
    He is prayed to (Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2)
    He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
    He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
    He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)
    He knew all things (John 21:17)
    He gives eternal life (John 20:28)
    The fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)

    MAN
    He worshiped the Father (John 17)
    He prayed to the Father (John 17:1)
    He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
    He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
    He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)
    He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
    He died (Rom. 5:8)
    He had a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:3)

    John 1... WHOLE chapter! (ALL NASB!) ...[ The Deity of Jesus the Christ, the unique Messiah ]
    1 In the beginning was the Word (LOGOS) , and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us,
    and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten (NOT MADE!) from the Father, full of grace and truth.
    18 No one has seen God (THE FATHER) at any time;
    the only begotten God (THE SON) who is in the bosom of the Father, He (JESUS) has explained Him.

    John 9:35-38...[ Jesus Affirms His Deity ]
    Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”
    36 He answered,
    “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
    37 Jesus said to him,
    “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.”
    38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.


    John 10:22-30...[ Jesus Asserts His Deity ]

    Jesus of Nazareth..
    Son of God...
    Son of Man...
    Jesus the God-Man...
    Deity/Divine Messiah...
    ..THE Christ...
    God the Son, a Spiritual Person of the TRI-UNE GOD
     
  6. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I don’t think that is good argument for you, because Bible tells also:

    I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
    John 17:11

    that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
    John 17:21

    Also disciples of Jesus are one with God. Does this mean that we are also gods? I believe being one with God means that we have same will.

    Also Paul says I am, does it mean Paul is also god? Also, if I am means God, then Jesus said “before Abraham was born, God”. That is not same as "I am God”. I think what Jesus is saying in that is, he was before Abraham.

    According to the Bible, God lives in Jesus. So, wherever Jesus is, there is also God, because God lives in Jesus. That is why it is possible to say, My Lord and my God, they both are there.

    It would be good to notice that also Jacob is worshiped:

    Let peoples serve you, Nations bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, Let your mother's sons bow down to you. Cursed be everyone who curses you, Blessed be everyone who blesses you."
    Gen. 27:29

    If that can be done to Jacob, I don’t see why not for Jesus, even if he would be just a man.

    But is that penalty idea really Biblical? Jesus had right to forgive sins before his death, so apparently Bible is claiming that the death of Jesus was not necessary for forgiveness of the sins?


    The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.

    Luke 5:21-25

    And actually, that is one reason why people wanted to kill him, that he forgave sins by the authority that God has given to him.

    So, I just hope that if people claim Jesus is the God, then the arguments should be better.

    And actually, according to the Bible, there has been many gods:

    God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
    Psalms 82:1


    I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."

    Psalms 82:6-7

    So, perhaps you can call Jesus god, but it would be good to remember that for disciples of Jesus:

    For though there are things that are called "gods," whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many "gods" and many "lords;" yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
    1 Corinthians 8:5-6
     
  7. Baby Cottontail

    Baby Cottontail Well-Known Member

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    Although the Father is Almighty God, so is Jesus.

    John 1:1-3, 14 (NASB)
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
     
  8. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That's right (Matthew 28:18).

    For both YHWH God the Father and YHWH God the Son, Jesus Christ, are Spirit (John 4:24, Romans 8:9), although Jesus is also at the same time in a human, flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39, John 1:1,14; 1 John 4:2-3; 2 John 1:7). And so both God the Father and Jesus are spiritually omnipresent (Psalms 139:7-10, Matthew 28:20b), omniscient (Colossians 2:2b-3, Hebrews 4:13, Proverbs 15:3,11), and omnipotent (Jeremiah 32:17, Matthew 28:18).

    Also, there are so many different ways to illustrate the Trinity (the Tri-Unity of God), it shouldn't be difficult for every Christian to get at least some realization of it. While there's no sufficient analogy to completely explain God (Isaiah 40:18), how He can be one God (John 10:30) and yet three Persons at the same time (Matthew 3:16-17), the Bible does refer to God speaking things into existence (Genesis 1:24; Hebrews 11:3). And what He spoke was His Word, who is that Person of the Trinity who has become flesh in Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14; 1 Timothy 3:16, Luke 24:39). But God the Word existed even before God the Father spoke anything into existence, for all things created were created by God the Word (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17). And the original Greek word in John 1:1,14 for "Word" is "Logos", which refers not only to spoken words but also to any ordered thoughts. God has always had ordered thoughts, so God the Word has always existed.

    So a human analogy for God would have God the Father as the mind, and God the Word as the ordered thoughts, speech and writings (incarnate words) of that mind. God the Holy Spirit would be analogous to the breath (spirit) which is inextricable from human speech and also from ordered thought in that a non-breathing person is dead and his brain has no thoughts. God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) is one God with God the Father and God the Word because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father (Matthew 10:19-20 & Mark 13:11) and the Spirit of the Word (John 14:16-18, Romans 8:9). While an individual human isn't three persons, the truth about God can still be grasped by looking at man's design. For man was made in God's image (Genesis 1:26). Just as an individual man has his word (Revelation 12:11) and his spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23), so the one God has His Word (John 1:1) and His Spirit (Romans 8:9). But the one God is so infinitely greater than man (Isaiah 40:17), the Word of God and the Spirit of God are distinct Persons within His single being.

    Besides the analogy of a single human's mind, thoughts/speech/writings and breath, the Trinity can be compared to the single sun's sphere, light and heat. The Father would be analogous to the sun's sphere, which is invisible to humans except for its visible light, which is analogous to the incarnate, visible Word (Colossians 1:15, John 14:9). And the sun is felt by humans via its invisible, infrared rays, which would be analogous to the Spirit. The Trinity can also be compared to water, which even though it's one substance, it can exist in 3 states of solid, liquid and gas at the same time (such as in a water pitcher 2/3 full with water and ice cubes, with water vapor filling the top 1/3 of the pitcher). The Trinity can also be compared to space, which even though it's one area, it consists of 3 dimensions at the same time. The Trinity can also be compared to 1 x 1 x 1 = 1, or to 1a x 1b x 1c = 1abc.
     
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  9. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    In the beginning there has been many gods, according to the Bible, as shown in these:

    God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
    Psalms 82:1

    I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
    Psalms 82:6-7

    Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
    Job 1:6

    I believe Jesus is one of them.

    But I believe also that there is only one true God that is greater than Jesus, because that is what the Bible tells.

    God has given authority to Jesus to act in His name. That is why Jesus is God on earth. But that is not same as the one and only true God. This is similar to the idea that country can have a president that can make deals in the name of his country. President is not himself the country, but he acts in the name of the country. Same is with Jesus. Jesus acts in the name of God and so can be seen as God on earth. That is why it is said Jesus is the mediator between God and men.

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    1 Timothy 2:5

    Everything Bible says should be taken and understood as whole, else there is great danger that you later worship the wrong messiah that claims to be God.
     
  10. Baby Cottontail

    Baby Cottontail Well-Known Member

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    As I noted in a different thread, you are not allowed to argue against God being triune on this website. I am willing to engage you in this discussion, but since your posts break the site rules, someone may report your posts, and your posts could be removed or edited. I will not report your posts, but I am pretty sure that someone is going to.

    That being said,
    So, you believe that Jesus is a lesser God?

    If there is only one God, then how can there be lesser gods? And how could Jesus be said to be God in John 1:1? John 1:1 doesn't say that Jesus is acting for God, or acting on behalf of God. Instead, it says the Word was God.

    And what about in John 1:3, and in Colossians 1:16-17 when it says this:

    John 1:3 (NASB)
    All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    Colossians 1:16-17 (NASB)
    For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
     
  11. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That's right.

    For Jesus Christ's suffering during His Passion was sufficient to forgive the sins of everyone (1 John 2:2) because Jesus isn't just a human, but also God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28). His soul is infinite, and so the suffering of His soul (Isaiah 53:11, KJV) was infinite in amount, even though it wasn't infinite in duration. And so His suffering could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46). Because humans who aren't God have finite souls, for them to suffer an infinite amount for their sins, they must suffer over an infinite duration of time (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:46).

    Every human has sinned (Romans 3:23), except Jesus (Hebrews 4:15b; 2 Corinthians 5:21). But because Jesus suffered for sins (1 Peter 3:18, Isaiah 53:11, KJV) an infinite amount, when elect people repent from their sins and believe in Jesus' human/divine sacrifice, they can have their past sins forgiven (Romans 3:25-26, Matthew 26:28), while God the Father's justice remains fully satisfied by Jesus' suffering for their sins (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18).
     
  12. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    Thank you, I try not to speak about my opinions and I hope my post doesn’t offend anyone. And I am not arguing against anything. My goal is to help people to know and understand Bible better. I hope Bible is not against the forum rules.

    I believe what the Bible tells.

    Yes, it says “the Word was God”, but it doesn’t say “Jesus was God”.

    I think the important word in that is the “through”. Everything was made “through” him. If things happen through something, it doesn’t mean that is the actual doer, only the mediator. And Bible clearly tells Jesus is the mediator and speaks what God has commanded him to speak:

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    1 Timothy 2:5

    For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak."
    John 12:49-50
     
  13. Baby Cottontail

    Baby Cottontail Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is fine -- it's just that you are suggesting that Jesus isn't God. From the way that you write, I assume you are not a native English speaker? If so, there could be a bit of a language barrier here in your understanding what the forum rules are, etc. Can I ask you where you are from? And what is your native language?

    As do I -- we are interpreting verses and passages differently.

    Okay, who do you think the Word in John 1 is?

    What about John 10:29 (NASB)
    My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all: and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

    This seems to say that the Father and Jesus are the same God, although the Father is clearly not Jesus, and Jesus is not the Father.
     
  14. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I am from Finland and native language is Finnish. Sorry that my writings may be sometimes difficult to understand because of that.

    Bible says the word was God, so that I believe. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  15. Baby Cottontail

    Baby Cottontail Well-Known Member

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    Okay, thanks. I understand you, but I think there may be some communication issues sometimes.

    Good...then John 1:14 says this:
    John 1:14 (NASB)
    And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
     
  16. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    In that I think it is useful to know that Bible says that also disciples of Jesus are one with God. Now I think it is clear that we are not God, so the being one must mean something else?

    I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
    John 17:11

    that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
    John 17:21

    I believe being one means this:

    For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
    Romans 8:5

    Now I beg you, brothers, [The word for "brothers" here and where context allows may also be correctly translated "brothers and sisters" or "siblings."] through the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
    1 Cor. 1:10

    "For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him?" But we have Christ's mind.
    1 Cor. 2:16

    We have same mind, or same will and as Jesus taught us to pray, it goes like this:

    …Let your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.
    Matt. 6:10

    Disciples of Jesus want that God’s will happen, and then they have same mind as God. :)
     
  17. Baby Cottontail

    Baby Cottontail Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but John 17 is a different chapter, and what is said there is a different context.

    John 8:58-59 (NASB) shows that Jesus was claiming to be God:
    Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

    Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

    I should probably not keep engaging you in this discussion, because it will cause you to break the site rules. It's evident that you don't understand that you are breaking the rules by arguing against the trinity, and I don't want you to get in trouble, as it is a language barrier, and I don't think you are clearly trying to break the rules.

    Because of that, this will be my last post on the topic to you.
     
  18. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    Ok, thank you. I hope you everybody know, I am not arguing against trinity. I just try to help to understand better what the Bible tells. It can’t be understood correctly, if one doesn’t allow it to explain what it means with all its sayings. For example, the “one” thing is explained well in the Bible, if one doesn’t ignore the parts where disciples of Jesus are said to be one with God.
     
  19. Baby Cottontail

    Baby Cottontail Well-Known Member

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    The mods have been really heavy about having people follow the rule. I didn't want you to get into trouble.

    I agree that we do need to study the Bible and try to understand it better. I hope to see you around on the forums, and we can talk about other things.
     
  20. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    John 10:30 means Jesus Christ is one YHWH God with God the Father. This, in light of John 17:21-23, doesn't mean the Church will become YHWH. For John 17:21-23 refers to Christians becoming one with each other, as in one body of Christ (Ephesians 4:4, Colossians 1:18).
     
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