IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

[Bible Highlighter]

I have already addressed your Gal5:19-21 verse, which incorporates your other verses also. You are not perfect in your flesh, so you also break the moral law, but does that mean you are included in Gal5:19-21? No

! For those verses apply to people who choose to live such a lifestyle. There is a world of difference between choosing to live a sinfull life without conscience, and hating your imperfections, which we all have.
Thankyou for confirming you cannot produce one of the 613 laws handed down at Sanai(non moral laws) that the Pharisees failed to adhere to.
How is my belief moral and good?
For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law(of righteousness) but under grace Rom6:14
Your problem my friend is not understanding the basics of the new covenant, many do not, this is even more true on the internet.

Paul does not say that Galatians 5:19-21 is a lifestyle. He simply says they that do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. For how many times do you have to murder, before you are a murderer? Only confessing and forsaking sin defines you as a reformed individual.

 

[expos4ever]

Here is what I don't get:

1. I think it is Biblically self-evident, if not also established by historians, that "the law", when specifically connected with Jewish identity, clearly and unambiguously denoted the entire Law of Moses - all 613 elements.

2. It is clear beyond reason that this is how "law" is used in Romans 3:20 - "those under the Law" are clearly the Jews. This is crystal clear from both the first 19 verses - where it is clear that Jewishness is in view - and even more so at the end of the chapter where Paul clearly identifies "the law" as being something only for Jews.

3. So how can Paul be referring to some universal moral law in 3:20 when he is smack-dab in the middle of a treatment of the Law of Moses?

 

[Archippus]

Here is what I don't get:

1. I think it is Biblically self-evident, if not also established by historians, that "the law", when specifically connected with Jewish identity, clearly and unambiguously denoted the entire Law of Moses - all 613 elements.

2. It is clear beyond reason that this is how "law" is used in Romans 3:20 - "those under the Law" are clearly the Jews. This is crystal clear from both the first 19 verses - where it is clear that Jewishness is in view - and even more so at the end of the chapter where Paul clearly identifies "the law" as being something only for Jews.

3. So how can Paul be referring to some universal moral law in 3:20 when he is smack-dab in the middle of a treatment of the Law of Moses?

I would agree generally that 'the law' is all 613 laws. However, as the legalistic Levitical law could be faultlessly obeyed, and only the moral law could not faultlessly be obeyed, it is evident, that when Paul states you cannot be righteous by obeying the law, this is because of the moral law contained in the 613 laws handed down at Sanai

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I previously told you, there is no point in continuing this Jason. LoveGodsword and myself have very plainly showed you Paul is primarily referring to the moral law in Rom3:20, alongside his numerous other statements concerning the believer having no righteousness/justification of obeying the law. He is not referring to the legalistic law that is not applicable under the new covenant. You refuse to accept it, so let us leave it there. It is my hope that one day you are willing to see the truth of the new covenant the Christian is under
God Bless

First, this will be my last reply to you unless you reply back to me. So I will respect your decision that you do not want to talk about this anymore if you decide not to reply back.

Second, you do realize that LoveGodsWord believes that if you don't keep the Saturday Sabbath you are sinning, right? Whether he believes this to be a salvation issue or not, it implies that one is rebelling against God if they are breaking the Saturday Sabbath. But Christians are not under the Sabbath because we are not to judge according to Sabbaths (See Colossians 2:16-17).

Three, Paul is not referring to being exempt from God's Laws in general in relation to His salvation. Romans 6 says shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's answer to that question is.... God forbid. Meaning, he does not believe that you can willfully sin and still be saved. You believe you will always sin as it is a matter of fact. This is conscious decision on your part that it is okay when you will sin again because nobody is perfect. But nowhere does God approve of our sin or that it is okay that we just sin on occasion. Granted, I am not saying that a believer cannot stumble on occasion in His walk with God. The point here is that he does not expect to stumble. He does not make excuses for it. The point here is that we cannot act like we will always stumble as it is a matter of fact when Scripture teaches that you can overcome grievous sin (See Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1).

Four, you are still not really explaining any of the other verses I brought forth that destroys your belief. I imagine many of the verses I have shown to you are a mystery and that is why you have not replied to them. But for me, these verses make perfect sense. I believe them plainly in what they say. I don't have to do backflip twists in the air so as to change these verses in what they plainly say. In your view, fear does not mean fear in relation to working out your salvation with fear and trembling (See Philippians 2:12). In your view, Jesus did not really mean what He said when He spoke the words, "if you will enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17). Jesus was lying to the young rich ruler and did not really mean those words. In Matthew 7, you have to hide your head in the sand and ignore that those who were told by Jesus to depart from Him worked iniquity or sin. Please take note that these individuals did not claim to be bad and they did many wonderful works, too. So they did good and they did evil. How is your belief different? How is living in an excessive lifestyle of sin any different than sinning on occasion as per some claim that you have faults or imperfections? To me, it is no different and it is an excuse to sin while under God's grace. It is turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4). For in the last days, there will be those who will be lovers of pleasure more than they are lovers of God and they have a form of godliness, but the deny the power thereof (See 2 Timothy 3:1-9). Why are they denying the power thereof? Because they are denying that God has the power to help them to overcome in their sin. Personally, I would not want to come close to walking close to what 2 Timothy 3:1-9 says. Remember, Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14 tells us the reason or end goal as to why Christ died for us on the cross. The purpose or end goal is to make us holy, blameless, and zealous of good works. But how can we do that if we are not living holy, blameless, and we are not being zealous of good works? That's the problem I have with your belief or the popular belief here in the churches in America.

 

[Archippus]

First, this will be my last reply to you unless you reply back to me. So I will respect your decision that you do not want to talk about this anymore if you decide not to reply back.

Second, you do realize that LoveGodsWord believes that if you don't keep the Saturday Sabbath you are sinning, right? Whether he believes this to be a salvation issue or not, it implies that one is rebelling against God if they are breaking the Saturday Sabbath. But Christians are not under the Sabbath because we are not to judge according to Sabbaths (See Colossians 2:16-17).

Three, Paul is not referring to being exempt from God's Laws in general in relation to His salvation. Romans 6 says shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's answer to that question is.... God forbid. Meaning, he does not believe that you can willfully sin and still be saved. You believe you will always sin as it is a matter of fact. This is conscious decision on your part that it is okay when you will sin again because nobody is perfect. But nowhere does God approve of our sin or that it is okay that we just sin on occasion. Granted, I am not saying that a believer cannot stumble on occasion in His walk with God. The point here is that he does not expect to stumble. He does not make excuses for it. The point here is that we cannot act like we will always stumble as it is a matter of fact when Scripture teaches that you can overcome grievous sin (See Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1).

Four, you are still not really explaining any of the other verses I brought forth that destroys your belief. I imagine many of the verses I have shown to you are a mystery and that is why you have not replied to them. But for me, these verses make perfect sense. I believe them plainly in what they say. I don't have to do backflip twists in the air so as to change these verses in what they plainly say. In your view, fear does not mean fear in relation to working out your salvation with fear and trembling. In your view, Jesus did not really mean what He said when He said that if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. Jesus was lying to the young rich ruler and did not really mean those words. In Matthew 7, you have to hide your head in the sand and ignore that those who were told by Jesus to depart from Him worked iniquity or sin. Please take note that these individuals did not claim to be bad and they did many wonderful works, too. So they did good and they did evil. How is your belief different? How is living in an excessive lifestyle of sin any different than sinning on occasion as per some claim that you have faults or imperfections? To me, it is no different and it is an excuse to sin while under God's grace. It is turning God's grace into a license for immorality. Remember, Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14 tells us the reason or end goals as to why Christ died for us on the cross. The purpose or end goal is to make us holy, blameless, and zealous of good works. But how can we do that if we are not living holy, blameless, and we are not being zealous of good works? That's the problem I have with your belief or the popular belief here in the churches in America.

No, I am not interested in replying to you. Nor am I concerned at your statements that you say prove I am wrong and you are correct. The problem with websites such as these is, many come onto them, not with an open mind to learn, but simply to strut their stuff as it were. Debate then becomes pointless.
BTW
I gathered loveGodsword believes a Saturday sabbath must be followed. However, if he writes the truth in regard to Rom 3:20 primarily regarding the moral law, and shows it is the truth from scripture, I would obviously agree with him, I agree with some of the things you have previously written also.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, I am not interested in replying to you. Nor am I concerned at your statements that you say prove I am wrong and you are correct. The problem with websites such as these is, many come onto them, not with an open mind to learn, but simply to strut their stuff as it were. Debate then becomes pointless.
BTW
I gathered loveGodsword believes a Saturday sabbath must be followed. However, if he writes the truth in regard to Rom 3:20 primarily regarding the moral law, I would obviously agree with him, for that is the truth. I agree with some of the things you have previously written also.

The problem is not the forum itself. Nor are things as you say. Men have a right to discuss the Scriptures openly using logic, the context, cross references, and prayer, etc. to better understand God's Word. Truth should never be hidden. This forum allows for the truth to be spoken (Whether people accept that truth or not).

Also, there are a few who do want to learn things in God's Word. Not everyone has agreed with me on everything I said with God's Word, but they have agreed with me on other things that it says. In fact, I have shared things with them that they found to be helpful. So yes. People do learn here; And not just by what I say. You can say that nobody learns anything here because they all just come on here to push their beliefs. But you have not been on this forum long enough to truly know what goes on here. You are making an unfair blanket judgment without really having all of the facts.

As for LoveGodsWord:
Do you believe that not keeping the Saturday Sabbath is a sin?
I would say that such a thing is very serious to say that because it suggests we need to keep this command to be right with God. It is just as much of a danger as those who think they can willfully sin and still be saved while under God's grace. The Scriptures say, For if we willfully sin after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26). Is not your admittance that we all sin as a matter of fact saying the same thing as.... if we willfully sin after we received the knowledge of the truth? I see it like that because you are planning to sin again because you cannot help your sinful condition. For admittance that we will sin again is willful sin. You are planning that you will most likely sin again because all people sin. So this is willful sin. But Hebrews 10:26 warns that if we willfully sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin. So we cannot have a mindset that makes an allowance for willful sin.

 

[Archippus]

The problem is not the forum itself. Nor are things as you say. Men have a right to discuss the Scriptures openly using logic, the context, cross references, and prayer, etc. to better understand God's Word. Truth should never be hidden. This forum allows for the truth to be spoken (Whether people accept that truth or not).

Also, there are a few who do want to learn things in God's Word. Not everyone has agreed with me on everything I said with God's Word, but they have agreed with me on other things that it says. In fact, I have shared things with them that they found to be helpful. So yes. People do learn here; And not just by what I say. You can say that nobody learns anything here because they all just come on here to push their beliefs. But you have not been on this forum long enough to truly know what goes on here. You are making an unfair blanket judgment without really having all of the facts.

As for LoveGodsWord:
Do you believe that not keeping the Saturday Sabbath is a sin?
I would say that such a thing is very serious to say that because it suggests we need to keep this command to be right with God. It is just as much of a danger as those who think they can willfully sin and still be saved while under God's grace. The Scriptures say, For if we willfully sin after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26). Is not your admittance that we all sin as a matter of fact saying the same thing as.... if we willfully sin after we received the knowledge of the truth? I see it like that because you are planning to sin again because you cannot help your sinful condition. For admittance that we will sin again is willful sin. You are planning that you will most likely sin again because all people sin. So this is willful sin. But Hebrews 10:26 warns that if we willfully sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin. So we cannot have a mindset that makes an allowance for willful sin.

I have already responded to you concerning loveGodsword so will not do so again.
Your problem is you do not understand the new covenant, therefore you often quote verses out of context, and therefore when given an answer concerning them you say it cannot be true.
I find it alarming when people claim to not sin, or infer they hardly ever commit any sin. Please tell me this. Do you believe a thirteen year old can be saved? If so, will you tell them if they have any impure thoughts they will be cast into hell for breaking the law concerning coveting? Will you answer that?
Now let us see who understands the scriptures and who does not. If you tell them that, and they believe you, in all likelihood they will become consumed by all manner of concupiscence(Rom7:7). You would tell a thirteen year old that wouldn't you? It is after all what you earnestly believe and proclaim on this website

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have already responded to you concerning loveGodsword so will not do so again.

Do you believe it is a sin if you do not keep the Saturday Sabbath?
I am not sure why you think this is not a problem.

Your problem is you do not understand the new covenant, therefore you often quote verses out of context,

Baseless accusation. Nowhere did you ever explain the context of the verses I quoted. I asked you repeatedly to explain the verses that I have put forth that destroys your belief, but you refused to explain them.

....and therefore when given an answer concerning them you say it cannot be true.

I have explained the verses you have put forth to me using the actual context.
But you have not done so with me in the verses I have provided.

I find it alarming when people claim to not sin, or infer they hardly ever commit any sin. Please tell me this.

Most people do not have your best intentions at heart. I only share my personal life with close family members and Christian friends I trust. I do not have an active Facebook account and think it is a bad idea to share your personal information on the internet. As I said to you before, it would not matter to you what my walk with God was like. You would still believe the way you do regardless because you want to believe what you believe because it makes for an allowance for sin within your life. For who wants to give up sin? It's pleasureable. That is why men defend a sin and still be saved gospel and it is not because Scripture supports what they are saying. Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).

Do you believe a thirteen year old can be saved? If so, will you tell them if they have any impure thoughts they will be cast into hell for breaking the law concerning coveting?

I did not speak the words about how one's whole body being cast into hellfire by lusting after a woman in Matthew 5:28-30, Jesus said those words. I did not speak the words about how being a coveteous person can lead one to not inherit the Kingdom of God in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Ephesians 5:3-5. Paul said those words. If anyone has a problem with them, then they will have to answer to the Lord one day why they thought His words do not apply to them (Regardless of their age).

Will you answer that?

God's Word is my answer for all matters in regards to spiritual things.
For God's Word is my authority and not my own thoughts.
For there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death.

Now let us see who understands the scriptures and who does not. If you tell them that, and they believe you, in all likelihood they will become consumed by all manner of concupiscence(Rom7:7). You would tell a thirteen year old that wouldn't you? It is after all what you earnestly believe and proclaim on this website

I have a problem with you telling others that they can sin and still be saved (Including younger adults who may come across this website hearing such a message). Your belief can lead them to think they can commit all manner of sin and think they are saved. Some children have even killed themselves because of OSAS. They thought that no sin could separate them from God and so they killed themselves because life was too hard for them. They thought they could commit suicide and be saved. That is the dark fruits of your belief. Don't kid yourself. Try reading up a man named George Sodini (See the link below to begin your research). He wrote in his suicide letter before he killed a bunch of people and took his own life that he was saved even despite the kind of sins he was about to commit. He was a big believer in OSAS.

http://eternalsecurity.us/george_sodini.htm

Let me ask you this.

Do you believe David was saved while he was committing his sins of adultery and murder?

 

[Archippus]

Do you believe it is a sin if you do not keep the Saturday Sabbath?
I am not sure why you think this is not a problem.



Baseless accusation. Nowhere did you ever explain the context of the verses I quoted. I asked you repeatedly to explain the verses that I have put forth that destroys your belief, but you refused to explain them.



I have explained the verses you have put forth to me using the actual context.
But you have not done so with me in the verses I have provided.



Most people do not have your best intentions at heart. I only share my personal life with close family members and Christian friends I trust. I do not have an active Facebook account and think it is a bad idea to share your personal information on the internet. As I said to you before, it would not matter to you what my walk with God was like. You would still believe the way you do regardless because you want to believe what you believe because it makes for an allowance for sin within your life. For who wants to give up sin? It's pleasureable. That is why men defend a sin and still be saved gospel and it is not because Scripture supports what they are saying. Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).



I did not speak the words about how one's whole body being cast into hellfire by lusting after a woman in Matthew 5:28-30, Jesus said those words. I did not speak the words about how being a coveteous person can lead one to not inherit the Kingdom of God in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Ephesians 5:3-5. Paul said those words. If anyone has a problem with them, then they will have to answer to the Lord one day why they thought His words do not apply to them (Regardless of their age).



God's Word is my answer for all matters in regards to spiritual things.
For God's Word is my authority and not my own thoughts.
For there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death.



I have a problem with you telling others that they can sin and still be saved (Including younger adults who may come across this website hearing such a message). Your belief can lead them to think they can commit all manner of sin and think they are saved. Some children have even killed themselves because of OSAS. They thought that no sin could separate them from God and so they killed themselves because life was too hard for them. They thought they could commit suicide and be saved. That is the dark fruits of your belief. Don't kid yourself. Try looking up a man named George Sodini. He wrote in his suicide letter before he killed a bunch of people and took his own life that he was saved even despite the kind of sins he was about to commit. He was a big believer in OSAS.

Let me ask you this.

Do you believe David was saved while he was committing his sins of adultery and murder?

Why have you not answered the simple question? Why deflect? Would you tell a thirteen year old if they had impure thoughts they would be cast into hell for breaking applicable new covenant law?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why have you not answered the simple question? Why deflect? Would you tell a thirteen year old if they had impure thoughts they would be cast into hell for breaking applicable new covenant law?

Jesus did not always answer questions. In this case, I am following his example.

Also, I am not God to know everyone's life. What I do know is that Jesus says that if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hellfire just as He says in Matthew 5:28-30. So I will say what Jesus says. I will warn others not to look at others in lust or they are in danger of having their whole body cast into hell fire.

The problem is that you are not saying or teaching the same thing that Jesus taught.
You are teaching something else or something that is contrary to what He said.

Anyways, I believe babies and younger children are saved by Christ's sacrifice. I do not know the age of accountability for a child. It could be different based on many factors. I am not God to know that. What I do know is if a person openly rejects God's Word at the age of accountability, they will be condemned. I don't know that age for such a child. It could be different for every child. I believe at this moment that only God knows such things.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have already responded to you concerning loveGodsword so will not do so again.
Your problem is you do not understand the new covenant, therefore you often quote verses out of context, and therefore when given an answer concerning them you say it cannot be true.
I find it alarming when people claim to not sin, or infer they hardly ever commit any sin. Please tell me this. Do you believe a thirteen year old can be saved? If so, will you tell them if they have any impure thoughts they will be cast into hell for breaking the law concerning coveting? Will you answer that?
Now let us see who understands the scriptures and who does not. If you tell them that, and they believe you, in all likelihood they will become consumed by all manner of concupiscence(Rom7:7). You would tell a thirteen year old that wouldn't you? It is after all what you earnestly believe and proclaim on this website

Try reading up on George Sodini here to see the dark fruits of OSAS:

http://eternalsecurity.us/george_sodini.htm

 

[Archippus]

I am not God to know everyone's life. What I do know is that Jesus says that if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hellfire just as He says in Matthew 5:28-30. So I will say what Jesus says. I will warn others not to look at others in lust or they are in danger of having their whole body cast into hell fire.

The problem is that you are not saying or teaching the same thing that Jesus taught.
You are teaching something else or something that is contrary to what He said.

Anyways, I believe babies and younger children are saved by Christ's sacrifice. I do not know the age of accountability for a child. It could be different based on many factors. I am not God to know that. What I do know is if a person openly rejects God's Word at the age of accountability, they will be condemned. I don't know that age for such a child. It could be different for every child.

You see, you cannot answer the simple question can you. You can quote much scripture, as can jws, Mormons and muslims, and you can deflect much. The fact you believe the letter that kills is the non applicable old covenant legalistic law that could be faultlessly obeyed, and this is the law Paul speaks of when he says you cannot be righteous by obeying it, proves you lack understanding of a very basic nature. But of course, as those mentioned can still quote the bible to support errant beliefs, so can you.
BTW
There is no licence to sin for born again Christians who are not under righteousness of observing the moral law. I could spend time explaining it to you, but it would be futile. You refuse to accept the truth of Rom 3:20, so you would also refuse to accept anything you are shown. This is as I explained, the problem with the internet.

 

[Archippus]

Try reading up on George Sodini here to see the dark fruits of OSAS:

http://eternalsecurity.us/george_sodini.htm

I do not rely on reading such things to understand spiritual truth.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You see, you cannot answer the simple question can you. You can quote much scripture, as can jws, Mormons and muslims, and you can deflect much. The fact you believe the letter that kills is the non applicable old covenant legalistic law, and this is the law Paul speaks of when he says you cannot be righteous by obeying it, proves you lack understanding of a very basic nature. But of course, as those mentioned can still quote the bible to support errant beliefs, so can you.
BTW
There is no licence to sin for born again Christians who are not under righteousness of observing the moral law. I could spend time explaining it to you, but it would be futile. You refuse to accept the truth of Rom 3:20, so you would also refuse to accept anything you are shown. This is as I explained, the problem with the internet.

Jesus did not answer a question before. So I am following his example.

As for the use of Scripture:
Well, faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God.
Please do not undermine God's Word by saying that other religions can quote Scripture so it does not mean anything to quote it. That is silly. All spiritual matters come from God's Word. If you do not believe the Bible is your final Word of authority, then just say so.

But you are deflecting in the fact that you have not given me an explanation to the many verses I have put forth towards you that destroys your belief that makes for an allowance for sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I do not rely on reading such things to understand spiritual truth.

I can say that you are deflecting.

Short story is that he believe in OSAS big time and he admitted in his own suicide letter that he was saved despite what he was about to do (Which was murdering a bunch of people that was than followed by him taking his own life).

 

[Archippus]

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

 

[Archippus]

No, you know it would be a preposterous

Jesus did not answer a question before. So I am following his example.
.

No, you know it would be a proposterous statement to make to a thirteen year old, yet that is your belief, so all you can do is deflect from answering

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

God will not remember their sinful deeds no more because they have confessed and forsaken their sins. Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Also see 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7.

 

[Archippus]

I can say that you are deflecting.

Short story is that he believe in OSAS big time and he admitted in his own suicide letter that he was saved despite what he was about to do (Which was murdering a bunch of people that was than followed by him taking his own life).

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14
Cannot refer to non applicable old covenant law. And, if you understood Paul's message you would know that

 

[Archippus]

God will not remember their sinful deeds no more because they have confessed and forsaken their sins. Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Also see 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7.

If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us 1John1:8

I have found, that to be a very accurate statement concerning those who claim to be without sin.