IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

[LoveGodsWord]

We use the Ten Commandments for instruction and commentary. But we live according to the Two Great Commandments requiring Love for God and people. Without love, all is sin, even keeping the Ten Commandments.

You cannot get to the two great commandments of LOVE without the law bringing you there. On these two commandments [Love to God and Love to man] Hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. All other laws related to them. All became obsolete with the New Covenant.

Not really Dave, God's WORD says the 10 Commandments and the Mosaic BOOK of the law made up the OLD COVENANT.

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the ten commandments.

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

Your only telling half the story. Not knowing what makes up the OLD COVENANT will distort your vision of the scriptures in the NEW TESTAMENT in relation to the NEW COVENANT.

If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is?


Hope this helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Blessings to all as you seek him through his WORD. Time for me to get some rest. Thanks everyone for your comments and sharing your thoughts. We may not all agree, but it is nice to see what others believe.

99

 

[FatalHeart]

Where does Scripture say that God will judge Gentiles by the Law?

Well, Romans 2. Also, you can look at Revelations and see everyone judged according to what they've done. And then there are the myriad of scriptures talking about God setting a day for judgement for the world.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Seems it did not work out to well for you now did it? You post was completely addressed in post # 199 linked click me and post # 200 linked click me, showing you had left out scripture context in nearly every scripture you provided.



If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL then you have no place in the NEW COVENANT (Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13; Romans 9:6-8; Hebrews 8:10-12). Gentiles are now grafted in (Romans 11:16-27). You quote Titus 3:9 out of Context the word law used here is νομικός ; nomikos which means about ceremonial laws. So the scripture says to avoid foolich questions in relation to tracing generations [Geneologies] and havnig contentions about the ceremonial laws for they are unprofitable.



Ideed you posted scriptures on the covenants and the other scriptures you posted were shown when context was added to have a different meaning to what you were trying to promote. The scriptures posted to you, besides showing you were not considering chapter and scripture context, also showed that some of the scriptures you posted were referring to the Mosaic book of the law and not God's 10 Commandments. This was addressed in detail in post # 199 linked click me and post # 200 linked click me



Thankyou this is a great example. You just proved everything I was just saying above by quoting Hebrews 7:12. As shown earlier in Hebrews 10; Hebrews 7 is talking about the change in the Levitical priest hood and sanctuary laws from the MOSAIC book of the Covenant not the 10 commandments. Please read the scripture context in Hebrews 7:1-11.
Quoting this example in Hebrews 7:12 is a good example of talking the scripture out of context and its reference to the Mosaic Book of the law and not God's 10 Commandments. You are reading something into the scriptures that it is not saying.



Indeed this is another scripture shown in post # 200 linked click me that you were also talking scripture out of Context and you do not understand the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures in relation to what is being discussed.

Leaving out CONTEXT again brother. What is the chapter context is it the 10 Commandments of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT?

v11 Shadow law of CIRCUMCISION
v12 Shadows of Baptism
v13 Shadows of death to sin and UNCIRCUMCISION

CONTEXT is not the 10 Commandments the CONTEXT is the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

v14 Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφονcheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLIESIASTICAL laws >that was against us, WHICH WERE AGAINST , and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 is in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA mean ing THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant

Can you see your errors here brother in every case so far you have taken scripture out of Context.

DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE LINKING OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS SCRIPTURES FOR COLOSSIANS 2 (PARTS 1-6) linked Click me.



You are free to believe and do as you wish my friend. We are all only held accountable to God come judgment day for believing and following God's WORD (John 12:47-48).

No need to continue the discussion if you do not want to.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word

The weekly Sabbath is a ceremonial Law.

The word “ceremony” is defined as:

“formal religious or sacred observance; a solemn rite:”

Is not the weekly Sabbath a formal religious or sacred observance?

I would say.... “yes.”

So you are violating Titus 3:9.

Good day to you, sir.
And may God’s love shine upon you today.

 

[Dave L]

Not really Dave, God's WORD says the 10 Commandments and the Mosaic BOOK of the law made up the OLD COVENANT.

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the ten commandments.

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

Your only telling half the story. Not knowing what makes up the OLD COVENANT will distort your vision of the scriptures in the NEW TESTAMENT in relation to the NEW COVENANT.

If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is?


Hope this helps

The scripture you are using prove you wrong. The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. That is why they called it the Ark of the Covenant. Because it held the Ten Commandments.

 

[Dave L]

You cannot get to the two great commandments of LOVE without the law bringing you there. On these two commandments [Love to God and Love to man] Hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

But the Ten are now abolished, the Two preceded the Ten and still remain.

 

[Dave L]

Because he was preaching Christ and him crucified for salvation by faith. The Jews were the ones the put Jesus on the cross

No, they said he taught against Moses. The would have loved you, thinking the way you do.

 

[FatalHeart]

"You who are wanting to be justified by the law, do you not know what the law says?"

The scriptures actually call such people as falling from grace (let's not read into what that means). See Galatians. It teaches in Hebrews that there's a change of law with a change in priesthood and that the Mosaic covenant, on which the law was founded, did not override or do away with the original covenant given to Abraham. God's original promise and covenant and law built in the promise of Jesus and his priesthood supersedes the law of Moses and the Old Testament practices. "It is based on better promises." But Jesus didn't preach lawlessness. He sent an indwelling of the Holy Spirit to those that believed in him, an indwelling that guaranteed the obedience to His will and one that cannot be counterfeited. He also said, "Repent or you too will all perish." So, there's an easy distinguishing of sin and law for those seeking it. However, as is the case with all sound doctrine, ignorant and unstable men twist things to their own destruction, and there are wolves into creating division and contention with actual Christ followers who are commanded by scripture to work out their salvation and to figure out how to test and know the Lord in the things that are good, personal lack of maturity, not being an excusable thing before God, who has given us both His word and Spirit to learn from.

Since God doesn't change, there's much to learn from what God desires in the Old Testament, but as for it's practices and regulations, the New Testament lays out much clearer what God desires and commands in many of the things taught by Jesus and the Epistles. God didn't remove anything from His eternal law and He never will, but those commands are not the commands given to Moses, though many of them today remain the same thing said different ways. It was always declared who Jesus would be and what his priesthood would entail and that is the eternal law, not Moses.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are putting the cart before the horse.

A person who has been saved through faith in Jesus Christ will have God's laws written on his/her heart and mind(HEBREWS.10:15), thus walking in the Spirit and fulfilling the Law, eg keeping the Old Testament laws of love God/Jesus and love his/her neighbor.
....... This is especially true for Jewish Christians who have kept God's laws from childhood but mostly not true for Gentile Christians who previously as Gentiles, have not kept God's laws from childhood. Hence, the exemptions from the Law given by God to Gentile Christians at ACTS.15:24-29.

Making the Old Testament law, "love your neighbor" as a requirement for salvation may trip some weak Gentile Christians into work-based salvation or salvation through the keeping of the Law, and into losing their faith in Christ when they somehow could not religiously keep this OT law, eg Gentile Christian alcoholics, drug addicts, etc.
....... It's similar to the Judaizers requiring Gentile Christians to be circumcised, in order to be saved. Or other OT laws like keeping the Biblical Sabbath, eating Kosher foods, tithing 10%, etc.

No. I know what putting the cart before the horse is. It is what the Pharisees did. They thought they could be justified by primarily the Law alone with little to no emphasis on God's grace. No true Christian denies that we first need to receive Jesus Christ as Savior (seeking His forgiveness and believing in His death and resurrection on their behalf). That is the milk of the Word. The meat of the Word is discerning between good and evil. Most Christians today preach a milk message and no meat (Which is to follow).

Also, while a believer is born again spiritually and is given a new heart with new desires, that does not mean their free will has been eliminated. It is not some automatic thing that they will all bear much fruit. Some seed received the Word of God with joy but fell away due to persecution and or the riches or cares of this life. Paul even tells us believers to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear? We are told to perfect holiness in the fear of God. Again, why tell us this if it is some kind of autopilot kind of thing that is encoded into all Christians? The warnings and admonishments would be absolute non-sense if what you say is true. Sin. Grievous sin can separate a believer from God if they do not repent. For what on Earth do you think happened in the Garden? Sin caused a separation between God and man. Man needed a Savior. This Savior was not so that man can trivialize sin. For the very reason Christ died for us was so as to make us holy and blameless (Ephesians 5:25-27) and zealous of good works (Titus 2:14).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let's say a Gentile alcoholic man somehow got saved through faith in Jesus Christ = he becomes a Gentile Christian alcoholic who is exempted from most of the burdensome parts of God's laws or Moses Law, including LEVITICUS.10:9(Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink), as per ACTS.15:24-29.

As an alcoholic, he tends to not love his neighbors, eg steals/cheats money from his neighbors, in order to indulge in his addiction or bad/evil habit. Though he repents of not loving his neighbors, he just can't help himself. Also, he will lead a sad and short life on earth, eg dies young from liver cirrhosis. Will he be still saved from hell when he dies.? As per the promises of God at JOHN.3:16, I think he will still be saved because of his faith in Christ, similar to the dying robber at LUKE.23:43.

Some will say that God/Jesus would heal the Gentile Christian alcoholic man of his addiction. That's fine.

Wow. You actually believe that?

How is this person any different than those of the world?

A belief on Jesus?

Does a belief really make you a better person?

No.

For what if this person had abused children?
What if they were an axe murderer?
Are they still saved if they believed in Jesus?
I would guess you would say... "No way."
So this means that there is a certain standard of holiness that you feel is required as a part of the salvation process. If not, then we can just be wicked and vile and believe on Jesus and not really act like He is our Lord. But that is not what I read within the New Testament.

For the unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30).
If you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15).
If you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30).

Yet, with your belief, you have to either ignore verses like these or re-write them to say something else.

 

[Dave L]

Let's say a Gentile alcoholic man somehow got saved through faith in Jesus Christ = he becomes a Gentile Christian alcoholic who is exempted from most of the burdensome parts of God's laws or Moses Law, including LEVITICUS.10:9(Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink), as per ACTS.15:24-29.

As an alcoholic, he tends to not love his neighbors, eg steals/cheats money from his neighbors, in order to indulge in his addiction or bad/evil habit. Though he repents of not loving his neighbors, he just can't help himself. Also, he will lead a sad and short life on earth, eg dies young from liver cirrhosis. Will he be still saved from hell when he dies.? As per the promises of God at JOHN.3:16, I think he will still be saved because of his faith in Christ, similar to the dying robber at LUKE.23:43.

Some will say that God/Jesus would heal the Gentile Christian alcoholic man of his addiction. That's fine.

What happens when Jesus saves us, he gives us a new nature that hates sin and loves righteousness. So Alcoholics become sober. Thieves no longer want to steal. Adulterers no longer want to practice adultery, etc. It is our nature to live in harmony with the Two Great Commandments of love for God and people written on the heart. So we naturally live in harmony with the Ten Commandments even though we need not keep any Sabbath.

 

[FatalHeart]

"Do not associate with anyone who calls themselves a brother and ..."

What the book of James tries to teach is that lip service does not a Christian make; even the demons know God exists. But you have quite a religious throng thinking because they said a prayer they belong to God. And, in fact, grace is being taught this way. But, "Faith without deeds is dead."

James goes on to use the same example Paul gives of Abraham to show that righteousness is imputed according to action, just as Paul used the example to say righteousness is imputed to faith. These are not contradicting examples; these are not contradicting doctrines; John teaches us that the man who believes, obeys.

But this obedience has nothing to do with a specific denomination's sense of what the Word says, and as such, relies heavily on the leading of the Spirit, a leading which relies on the activity of God in our lives, and so, is also heavily reliant on our own honesty. Although God will lay bear the secret of men's hearts, we all live in a world where people ignore God and lie to each other and ourselves. It is therefore every individual responsibility to get closer to God and that's why James says, "Purify your hearts."

You will know them by their fruit. It can clearly be seen as a sin to ignore any one of the ten commandments because the Epistles address each one of these and command compliance in different words, and all sin will be punished and all obedience will be rewarded, but it is so much more than this to be a Christian. Love for God is obeying God. Being known by God is directly related to loving Him. And obedience can only be accomplished through the Spirit, and the Spirit can only be obtained through faith in Jesus Christ, a faith that bears fruit.

 

[expos4ever]

Well, Romans 2.

Where in Romans 2? In fact, Romans 2 declares that only the Jew will be judged by the Law of Moses:

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

Those apart from the Law are obviously Gentiles, and those who are under the Law are obviously Jews.

And Paul declares that Gentiles who sin will indeed be judged, but that judgement will be apart from the Law.

 

[expos4ever]

Also, you can look at Revelations and see everyone judged according to what they've done.

Who denied that Gentiles will be judged according to what they have done? Certainly noy moi.

I trust you know what the Law of Moses is and that only Jews were under its jurisdiction. I have only agreed with Paul that Gentile will not be held accountable to the Law of Moses. That does not mean they are not sinners and won't be judged as such.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God will still judge everyone by the law and everyone will be punished and rewarded according to what they have done. See Romans 2. "You will reap what you sow."

Do you believe the weekly Saturday Sabbath is still in effect today?
I do not believe the Saturday Sabbath is still in effect according to Scripture.

 

[FatalHeart]

Do you believe the weekly Saturday Sabbath is still in effect today?
I do not believe the Saturday Sabbath is still in effect according to Scripture.

Hebrews talks about a Sabbath rest remaining for the children of God. "Let us make sure no one falls short of it." It goes on to reference that it is a test of true faith, because those that are under God's rest will rest from their own work. Now, that doesn't mean the Sabbath functions in any particular or consistent way as it says, "therefore do not let anyone judge you in regards..." But it follows that the spirit of the Sabbath is very much alive and not something to go unattended.

 

[FatalHeart]

Where in Romans 2? In fact, Romans 2 declares that only the Jew will be judged by the Law of Moses:

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

Those apart from the Law are obviously Gentiles, and those who are under the Law are obviously Jews.

And Paul declares that Gentiles who sin will indeed be judged, but that judgement will be apart from the Law.

The confusion comes from the fact I do not consider the Law to be the Law of Moses, but God's law. I apologize. My answer was incomplete.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hebrews talks about a Sabbath rest remaining for the children of God. "Let us make sure no one falls short of it." It goes on to reference that it is a test of true faith, because those that are under God's rest will rest from their own work. Now, that doesn't mean the Sabbath functions in any particular or consistent way as it says, "therefore do not let anyone judge you in regards..." But it follows that the spirit of the Sabbath is very much alive and not something to go unattended.

I see this as talking about our rest in Christ Jesus. We are to labor to enter into that rest. Meaning we are to always be careful to obey God's commands (under the New Testament) and be fruitful for His Kingdom in order to continue to remain in the "rest" (peace and love) that Christ gives.

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28).

I do not believe the Saturday Sabbath is binding anymore.
Nobody is going to go to hell for disobeying the Saturday Sabbath.
No such command is clearly given to us in the New Testament for this.
This is important because at the Jerusalem counsel, it condemned going back to the Law of Moses as a means of justification (Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). For we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:6).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The confusion comes from the fact I do not consider the Law to be the Law of Moses, but God's law. I apologize. My answer was incomplete.

Do you believe the Saturday Sabbath is a repeated command that is binding for us to obey as Christians in the New Testament (New Covenant)?

Is it a grievous sin to disobey the weekly Saturday Sabbath for a Christian today?