Is it possible to keep the 10 commandments?

[Phil 1:21]

Yes I read it. But you went all the way back there to find it and you could have just posted it to make it easy for me!

So, here is post number 120.
My comments will be in green:

Many people would rather it says this,
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those who have chosen me, but raise them up at the last day."John 6:39
John 6:39 is speaking about an IT. People are not an IT.
verse 39 is referring to the job that God sent His son to do...redeem mankind for the resurrection.

Verse 40 is speaking about persons since Jesus is referring to them as "him". And, as usual, it states that ANYONE who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life.
John 3:29-40
39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”


Our predestination is intimately a part of our salvation however.
Romans 8, in the YLT version uses fore-appoint for predestine.
Same difference.


29 because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;
Whom God FOREKNEW, He also did predestine to be conformed to the image of His Son. God didn't predestine salvation,,,
He KNEW who would be saved and predestined that they should be like His Son,,,the first-born.....
Romans 8:29

30 and whom He did fore-appoint, these also He did call; and whom He did call, these also He declared righteous; and whom He declared righteous, these also He did glorify.
Those that God predestined TO BE LIKE HIS SON, He also called and declared them justified.
Note that in verse 28 it states that all things work for the good to them that are called according to His purpose. We each have a purpose to do God's will.
Ephesians 4:11
1 Corinthians 12:11

Romans 8 in the amplified version,

29 For those whom He foreknew [of whom He was aware and loved beforehand], He also destined from the beginning [foreordaining them] to be molded into the image of His Son [and share inwardly His likeness], that He might become the firstborn among many brethren.

30 And those whom He thus foreordained, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified (acquitted, made righteous, putting them into right standing with Himself). And those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity and condition or state of being].
Notice that the poster did correctly use the word FOREKNEW.
This is all important. God foreknew who would choose Him, he did not predestine them to choose Him. He gave us free will and with our free will we chose God after He revealed Himself to us, and the whole world.


Ephesians 1 in the YLT
3 Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,
Before the foundation of the world, God predestined us to be holy and unblemished before Him IN CHRIST.
Predestination is always speaking about a HOW, not about a WHO.

5 having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Again, God predestined those that would choose Him to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ.
Again, a HOW not a WHO.

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He did make us accepted in the beloved,

And in the amplified version,
Ephesians 1
3 May blessing (praise, laudation, and eulogy) be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual (given by the Holy Spirit) blessing in the heavenly realm!

4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love.

5 For He foreordained us (destined us, planned in love for us) to be adopted (revealed) as His own children through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the purpose of His will [because it pleased Him and was His kind intent]—
Same as above, no matter what version you care to use.

If you read the entire N.T. with a clean slate mind, you'll find that what I have written above makes much more sense when you reconcile it with the God we worship. We are not allowed to change the character of God. I doubt He's too happy about this...

A loving God.
A merciful God.
A just God.

I'm going to have to go with God's word instead of yours. Thanks though.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I see no confusion at all.
I know the doctrines fairly well but Catholic doctrine is limited, just as all Churches. If there is no clear doctrine on something, Catholics are free to believe whatever they want. (Ex. Was creation 6 actual days)

Never said it wasn't. The Law is knowledge of good and evil. (The Tree of Knowledge in Eden)
Romans 2:20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth,
Romans 3:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight;
for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law...

Romans 8:
2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. ​

If you are under the Law and fail to obey one of them, then that brings death. The Law is knowledge of good and evil. This is what the Garden of Eden is pointing to. Jesus is the Tree of Life while the Law is the Tree of Knowledge. The fruit which Adam and Eve ate is the desire to justify yourself through obedience to a set of Laws.

If you look at the 6th day of creation, it compares to the day Jesus was crucified on. (Friday) The Gospel of John tells us that Jesus(God) was done with all of the works which he had set out to accomplish and as he died he said, "It is finished". He then made the 7th day holy and rested.(God's Rest) This is not about a day but about righteousness in which God's children have rest from works. God's children are alive in his rest, 24/7, a place which those under the Law cannot be.

The Garden of Eden story(Genesis 2) is the 7th day. Adam and Eve eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge(the Law). They then know their sin and try to hide it from God.(Covering their nakedness) God then condemns Adam to work the soil(works of the Law) which brings forth weeds and thorns. He then banishes them from Eden(righteousness) and sets an angel there to keep them from returning to righteousness(God's Rest) because one cannot find righteousness through works of the Law. We have to have Jesus Christ(The Tree of Life) whom God's children are free to eat from and live forever.


Nothing in John 8 says that. Verse 31 says if we obey "his" teachings that it will set us free. Jesus is talking to Pharisees, who had the Law of Moses, but they couldn't understand his teachings. The context of verse 31-47 speaks of them beings slaves to sin, just as Paul does in Romans.

And the Holy Spirit does not "do it all".
He's here to help us to not do it all.[/quote]
Yes. But that help is so that we can understand that we don't need a list of does and don'ts. We have God's Spirit to guide us.

On a personal note, I used to be a slave to sin. I thought that I "had" to obey the 10 Commandments. The harder I tried the more I failed.

It was then that God showed me the cross(the Key) and that Jesus was my perfection, not obedience to the 10. I embraced the cross, cast my sins upon it, picked it up and bear it where ever I go, for the cross is the key which opens the gate to heaven.

After I let go of the desire to justify myself through obedience to the 10, obedience became easy. God's Holy Spirit took away my desire to those sins and I was no longer a slave to sin.

I understand, do you? I was instantly justified-sanctified through baptism but I didn't understand how God's Holy Spirit works within us. When God revealed that, I was able to find progressive justification as the HS changed me and continues to change me.

God bless[/QUOTE]
You said the law is a curse.
I can't spend time responding if you don't know what you said.

As to the rest, you should change your church.
There are plenty of churches around that teach only grace and no works.

You are STILL required to obey the commandments of God, no matter what church you go to. Just because you fail doesn't mean you give up. Maybe you just didn't understand the grace of God? Or the Holy Spirit? I have no burden on my by obeying the commandments as best I can. God is happy with my effort -- He is not happy to hear some say that we no longer must obey.

If you understand progressive justification, which others call sanctification, then you should have no problem at all.

Of course we don't need a list of do's and dont's. But God wants us to know what He does not like.

The story of Adam and Eve isn't quite on target, but I won't go thru it unless you want to.

As to the scripture you bring up, John 8 I think,
if you post the scripture properly, I will respond to it.

 

[GodsGrace101]

People who tie their justification to their having to obey the Law can find it confusing, but when God removes the veil which them from seeing clearly the confusion wanes.

No Yarddog,
That's not what's confusing.

What's confusing is when people say the moral law is still valid and then in the next breath they say we don't have to follow it.

Just like you're doing.

 

[GodsGrace101]

You probably don't know Catholic doctrine as well as you think. Most people don't.(I include myself )

You can think what you will.
I encourage you to get a copy of the CCC and read it all.

 

[GodsGrace101]

"Again, God predestined those that would choose Him to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ.
Again, a HOW not a WHO."

can you clarify this?

Ephesians 1:3-5 is not stating that God predestines persons to be saved. It says that God foreknew who would be saved.
That would still leave the choice up to each one of us individually. That would be the WHO. God knows WHO will choose Him, since God created time, He is outside of time and does not take part in it. So He can see time all at once and knows what will happen.

It does, however, state HOW we will be saved.
He predestined the method of salvation.
We will be saved IN CHRIST.
We will be LIKE JESUS, His Son.
God chose us IN HIM (Jesus - God didn't choose us individually, He chose us to be IN HIM)

verse 5 God predestined us to adoption as sons THROUGH JESUS --- God is not choosing who will be saved, but those who will be God predestined to adopted as sons through Jesus.

See Colossians 1:1-8 and you'll find that Paul many times mentions how we are In Christ, verse 4. God predestined that our faith in Christ would be our salvation.
Verse 6 The word IN ALL THE WORLD is bearing fruit, even as in those in Colosse, when they heard the word, and understood the grace of God and came to love Him.

God reveals Himself, we choose. (as you already know).
God predestined the method by which we will be saved...
not the individual persons.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I'm going to have to go with God's word instead of yours. Thanks though.

It's not my word.
It's what the bible states.
It IS GOD'S WORD.

Difficult to answer to the truth, isn't it??
And you made me do all that writing!!!

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Ephesians 1:3-5 is not stating that God predestines persons to be saved. It says that God foreknew who would be saved.
That would still leave the choice up to each one of us individually. That would be the WHO. God knows WHO will choose Him, since God created time, He is outside of time and does not take part in it. So He can see time all at once and knows what will happen.

It does, however, state HOW we will be saved.
He predestined the method of salvation.
We will be saved IN CHRIST.
We will be LIKE JESUS, His Son.
God chose us IN HIM (Jesus - God didn't choose us individually, He chose us to be IN HIM)

verse 5 God predestined us to adoption as sons THROUGH JESUS --- God is not choosing who will be saved, but those who will be God predestined to adopted as sons through Jesus.

See Colossians 1:1-8 and you'll find that Paul many times mentions how we are In Christ, verse 4. God predestined that our faith in Christ would be our salvation.
Verse 6 The word IN ALL THE WORLD is bearing fruit, even as in those in Colosse, when they heard the word, and understood the grace of God and came to love Him.

God reveals Himself, we choose. (as you already know).
God predestined the method by which we will be saved...
not the individual persons.

I speak as a non Calvinist. I am of the conviction from the Bible, that it is impossible for any sinner to simply "choose" God. A person cannot decide on day, "I will accept Jesus today",in and of themselves. This I believe to be a spiritual impossibility. Romans chapter one says that God has from the beginning of time, "revealed" Himself in many ways, as it says in Hebrews 1:1. Yet, we know that the majority of the human race will not be saved?

 

[Phil 1:21]

It's not my word.
It's what the bible states.
It IS GOD'S WORD.

Difficult to answer to the truth, isn't it??
And you made me do all that writing!!!

Scripture is God's word. Your opinions (and eisegesis) are not. See the difference?

 

[Phil 1:21]

I speak as a non Calvinist. I am of the conviction from the Bible, that it is impossible for any sinner to simply "choose" God. A person cannot decide on day, "I will accept Jesus today",in and of themselves. This I believe to be a spiritual impossibility. Romans chapter one says that God has from the beginning of time, "revealed" Himself in many ways, as it says in Hebrews 1:1. Yet, we know that the majority of the human race will not be saved?

Jesus said...

"'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.'" John 6:44

Romans 9 fleshes it out further...

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Jesus said...

"'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.'" John 6:44

Romans 9 fleshes it out further...

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

This chapter from Romans is often quoted by Calvinists and the like, to show that their teaching of "predestination" is here supported from Paul's Epistle. I have read this a number of times, both in the English and Greek, and cannot see anywhere, that salvation is being spoken of. For starters, Paul quotes from the OT about Jacob and Esau, which is about God's preference of the one over the other, "the older shall serve the younger". Nothing of any predestination to salvation here. Even, God's having mercy on some, and hardening others, is nothing to do with salvation of the sinner, but, as seen from Paul's use of the account of Moses and Pharaoh, where Paul says, "for this purpose...", no predestination in sight! Also, the objects of mercy, and wrath, have noting to do with predestination. Why does it say in verse 22, "What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?". If these have been predestined to eternal destruction, or if God has simply passed them by, why would He even bother to be "longsuffering" towards them? Unless, as it says in Ezekiel, that God takes no pleasure (Hebrew means, desires, wills) in the death of the wicked, but rather that they repent and be saved. Hence we can see God bearing patiently with them, for the purpose of their getting saved. Calvinism has the habit to reading into Scripture passages, their preconceived theology, rather than allowing the whole Bible speak!

 

[Phil 1:21]

I notice you side-stepped John 6:44. Perhaps that's not part of the whole Bible that you want to speak.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

I notice you side-stepped John 6:44. Perhaps that's not part of the whole Bible that you want to speak.

I did not side step anything, because I believe that a sinner must first be drawn by God, as Jesus says in John 16, where He speaks of the Holy Spirit "convicting the world of sin...because they do not believe in Me". I have no issue with John 6:44, but do with the abuse of Romans 9-11 by some.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I did not side step anything, because I believe that a sinner must first be drawn by God, as Jesus says in John 16, where He speaks of the Holy Spirit "convicting the world of sin...because they do not believe in Me". I have no issue with John 6:44, but do with the abuse of Romans 9-11 by some.

Disagreeing with your personal interpretation of scripture does not constitute "abuse."

 

[GodsGrace101]

Scripture is God's word. Your opinions (and eisegesis) are not. See the difference?

NO!
Since I don't do eisegesis.
That's what YOU do!

 

[Phil 1:21]

NO!
Since I don't do eisegesis.
That's what YOU do!

Um, yeah...I agreed with scripture that was quoted. I don't think eisegesis means what you think it means.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I'm sorry, I meant that I couldn't understand your comment and so could not reply to you.
As to 1 John 1:6 you don't believe it's being written to
Christians.?

Yes, it is written TO us but not ABOUT a true Christian. We need to test ourselves to see it we ARE a true Christian.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Disagreeing with your personal interpretation of scripture does not constitute "abuse."

well, then prove what I have written wrong. Your words above say nothing of what Paul actually teaches, but you have an Calvinistic agenda, and then get Scriptures to "support" them, like another one abused, John 3:16, which some force to mean "the elect" is only meant here! even Calvin was honest enough to reject this nonsense!

 

[1stcenturylady]

I don't know why you think 1 John was written to non-believers.
Do you have some support for this?

1 John was clearly written to believers.
1 John 2:12 calls the readers little children whose sins are forgiven for His name sake. That would be a Christian.
Verse 13, for Fathers, states that they have overcome the evil one.
3:1 the readers are called children of God.
3:13 the readers are called brethren.

There is a difference between TO and ABOUT

 

[Phil 1:21]

well, then prove what I have written wrong.

It's not my responsibility to disprove your claim. It's incumbent of you to prove it. (dat's how dat works)

 

[sdowney717]

This chapter from Romans is often quoted by Calvinists and the like, to show that their teaching of "predestination" is here supported from Paul's Epistle. I have read this a number of times, both in the English and Greek, and cannot see anywhere, that salvation is being spoken of. For starters, Paul quotes from the OT about Jacob and Esau, which is about God's preference of the one over the other, "the older shall serve the younger". Nothing of any predestination to salvation here. Even, God's having mercy on some, and hardening others, is nothing to do with salvation of the sinner, but, as seen from Paul's use of the account of Moses and Pharaoh, where Paul says, "for this purpose...", no predestination in sight! Also, the objects of mercy, and wrath, have noting to do with predestination. Why does it say in verse 22, "What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?". If these have been predestined to eternal destruction, or if God has simply passed them by, why would He even bother to be "longsuffering" towards them? Unless, as it says in Ezekiel, that God takes no pleasure (Hebrew means, desires, wills) in the death of the wicked, but rather that they repent and be saved. Hence we can see God bearing patiently with them, for the purpose of their getting saved. Calvinism has the habit to reading into Scripture passages, their preconceived theology, rather than allowing the whole Bible speak!

Why be longsuffering towards those He know will never repent and believe?
Jesus gives us the answer in the parable of the wheat and the tares.
Matthew 13
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

Christ sows the good seed, those who are born of God, the ones He plants in His field the world.
The tares are sons of the devil, so the unsaved who all of them follow Satan.
Christ does not want His crop of wheat damaged by uprooting the evil tares before the last day.

The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!