Is it possible to keep the 10 commandments?

[Yarddog]

Yes, well, those who speak as your post here,
also do not say we are not to do them.

I find it rather confusing, TTYTT.

People who tie their justification to their having to obey the Law can find it confusing, but when God removes the veil which them from seeing clearly the confusion wanes.

 

[Yarddog]

You've listed Catholic as your faith.
I know Catholic doctrine and theology.
You do not represent it.

You probably don't know Catholic doctrine as well as you think. Most people don't.(I include myself )

 

[discipler7]

Is it possible or not to keep the 10 commandments?

Yes, it is possible. (as per MATTHEW.19:16-23)

ACTS.15:24-29 exempts Gentile Christians from the 613 laws/commandments of Moses which are a burden, eg circumcision, kosher foods, etc.
....... Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews are not as exempt.

1CORINTHIANS.5:5 states that an unrepentant sinner or law-breaker may still be saved from hell at death even though he/she had to suffer the curses/punishments for the sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking(eg destroyed by Satan ala Job and family) because salvation is based solely on faith/trust/belief in Jesus the Christ/Messiah. Christians should never curse God/Jesus and die, cf JOB.2:9.
....... Sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking have consequences, even for Christians, eg convicted murderers are often executed or imprisoned for life. Cf 1CORINTHIANS.11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-19.

 

[Ronald]

But if we keep Jesus commandments, are we not then keeping the 10 commandments? Which of the 10 commandments is not kept by love?

We are under Grace, not the Law. When the Law is read, a veil covers your eyes. When the NT is read, it is lifted. Don't get hung up on the OT Law. Churches that do this become legalistic. The Jews now live this way - without Grace, Peace, Joy, etc.
I used to drive an airport shuttle for a living and several times I would pick up Rabbis. They were not friendly, serious and looked miserable. There was no joy. They did not attempt to communicate with me, the lowly gentile. Finally I broke the ice and one spoke with me, but it seemed like agony to him - a van with seven Rabbis trying to keep the Law.
On another occasion I transported one Rabbi in his seventies. He too, was not friendly nor did he attempt to communicate. Finally, I asked him a question. "Why are all you Rabbis so serious, downtrodden? Why don't you have the joy of the Lord?" He was stunned for a second, then responded, "Women are so stupid! I've been married for forty years and have tried to please my wife, but cannot. They are so stupid." So he basically implied that women take away this joy. I knew why He didn't have it though, but I didn't tell him because I knew he would reject it. They don't have Jesus.
If you seek to live under the Law, you will be judged by the Law. Don't do that!

 

[Yarddog]

You imply a weak obedience model when you suggest there are conditions for which we can follow the law of the Most High God. He gave One Law; where did He ever say He gave conditional or categorical laws - especially for certain people within the same umbrella as "His People"? If you are His, and you LOVE Him, you follow His commandments.

God gave the Law of Moses to the Jewish people but Abraham was not under that Law. Gentiles are not under that Law. We do have an obedience to follow and that is Jesus' command to love and to believe.

 

[sdowney717]

I believe that the Bible teaches the Death of Jesus Christ is universal as did the man you follow John Calvin. I completely regret as rank heresy universal salvation.

You missed responding to JFB on 1 John 2:2?

Of course, God has decreed the gospel to be preached to all the nations, that whosoever believes will be saved. Scripture simply explains why any particular man believes or does not believe and Calvinism has exposed that truth.
1 John 2, propitiation for our sins and for the whole world, is simply for the believeing world ALONE who has their sins propitiated from the jews and from the gentiles, who make up the whole world. The unbelieving world does not have the propitiation of their sins. Propitiation means the appeasement of wrath of a deity, and obviously they experience the wrath of God, so they do not have the propitiation do they.

No appeasement of wrath, means no propitiation of their sin. etc.. These here are some people who experience God's wrath.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Romans 1:18
[ God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness ] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Romans 2:5
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Romans 2:8
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the [a]Greek;

Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Romans 9:22
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

Ephesians 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 2:16
forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[Dkh587]

God gave the Law of Moses to the Jewish people but Abraham was not under that Law. Gentiles are not under that Law. We do have an obedience to follow and that is Jesus' command to love and to believe.

Jesus taught (and lived a life of) obedience to God’s commands

 

[zoidar]

It's written in the present tense.

It is, that's why people think he is talking about his life right now. But if you read Rom 6 and Rom 7 you see he is talking about the state he was in before he was saved.

Do you really think Paul would say this about his present condition: "I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin" ? Where elsewhere in his letters would you find him say something like that about himself?

Rom 7:15 "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 19 "For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.... 24 Wretched man that I am!"

Does that go with how Paul describes himself in the rest of the scripture?

Rom 8

7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So if Paul were talking about his present state in Rom 7, then he wouldn't please God, since he is a slave under sin.

13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

If you are right then Paul won't live, since he is practicing the evil he doesn't want to do.

 

[Kaon]

God gave the Law of Moses to the Jewish people but Abraham was not under that Law. Gentiles are not under that Law. We do have an obedience to follow and that is Jesus' command to love and to believe.

Abraham knew better. It was already within him like it is us.

The Hebrews that didn't have the sense to appreciate being free in mind and body were the ones that needed something written in stone to tell them right from wrong. These were adults, and adult Hebrews no less.

There is no such thing as "under the law" since every single living entity in Creation is "under the law" of God. The Law is an alleged curse because son of man cannot follow it, but that doesn't mean it has been deligitimized by God. In fact, the Redeemer proved that God's law is not too hard for son of man. Therefore, His standard for us has no reason to change.

Anyone who wants to be a child of the Most High God needs to be obedient to Him - this is no less what the Redeemer did.

 

[Phil 1:21]

It is, that's why people think he is talking about his life right now. But if you read Rom 6 and Rom 7 you se he is talking about the state he was in before he was saved.

Do you really think Paul would say this about his present condition: "I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin" ? Where elsewhere in his letters would you find him say something like that about himself?

Rom 7:15 "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 19 "For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.... 24 Wretched man that I am!"

Does that go with how Paul describes himself in the rest of the scripture?

Rom 8

7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So if Paul were talking about his present state in Rom 7, then he wouldn't please God, since he is a slave under sin.

13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

If you are right then Paul won't live, since he is practicing the evil he doesn't want to do.

I see no contradiction, only God's grace.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

its very easy to put your own spin on what the Bible clearly teaches, because you would rather keep your "traditions", than accept that you are wrong. Paul very clearly speaks of the Sabbath, and ALL other festivals which are part of the Law of Moses that was removed at the Cross. You keep fighting what the Bible says.

No it is just quite evident that your interpretations are wrong...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

you must be still under the law

under? you mean FOLLOW

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This isn't achieved by keeping the law.

So I guess you just SAY you do and your are good!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No, if you're talking about the ten commandments.No

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The next verse proves Paul is talking about the ten commandments as the law.

Just as you think Yeshua and the Commandments are mutually exclusive, using your same logic, I could say well since you say we do not need to follow the commandments, we can now murder!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

do you turn on the heating or hot water on the Sabbath?

Why don't you ask me if I breath LOL? you have no idea what you are talking about...

 

[GodsGrace101]

No point in continuing this if you have no willingness to hear or understand the other side.

Don't you get it?
I KNOW the other side.
I don't AGREE with it.
It's the wrong side.
It changes the character of God.
God is a Supreme being. Sovereign. He can do whatever He wants to do.

So do you think He wanted to create little play dolls -- some to go be with Him and some to go to hell?

God is Love.
God is Merciful.
God is Just.

Why don't you explain
John 3:16 to me. Go up to 18 if you wish, you like that verse.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Of course, God has decreed the gospel to be preached to all the nations, that whosoever believes will be saved. Scripture simply explains why any particular man believes or does not believe and Calvinism has exposed that truth.
1 John 2, propitiation for our sins and for the whole world, is simply for the believeing world ALONE who has their sins propitiated from the jews and from the gentiles, who make up the whole world. The unbelieving world does not have the propitiation of their sins. Propitiation means the appeasement of wrath of a deity, and obviously they experience the wrath of God, so they do not have the propitiation do they.

No appeasement of wrath, means no propitiation of their sin. etc.. These here are some people who experience God's wrath.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Romans 1:18
[ God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness ] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Romans 2:5
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Romans 2:8
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the [a]Greek;

Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Romans 9:22
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

Ephesians 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 2:16
forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

exactly what is the Gospel Message that is to be preached to the entire human race? Is it not what the Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

"Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scripture"

Now, for Christ have to have died for the sins of the whole human race, it needs be, for this preaching of the Gospel Message to be sincere, that God also made provision for the sins of the entire human race, or else the preaching would be insincere?

 

[Yarddog]

Jesus taught (and lived a life of) obedience to God’s commands

That is correct. God lived by God's commands because man could not.

 

[GodsGrace101]

See post #120. It's the post to which I responded and you took exception. Did you not read it?

Yes I read it. But you went all the way back there to find it and you could have just posted it to make it easy for me!

So, here is post number 120.
My comments will be in green:

Many people would rather it says this,
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those who have chosen me, but raise them up at the last day."John 6:39
John 6:39 is speaking about an IT. People are not an IT.
verse 39 is referring to the job that God sent His son to do...redeem mankind for the resurrection.

Verse 40 is speaking about persons since Jesus is referring to them as "him". And, as usual, it states that ANYONE who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life.
John 3:29-40
39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”


Our predestination is intimately a part of our salvation however.
Romans 8, in the YLT version uses fore-appoint for predestine.
Same difference.


29 because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;
Whom God FOREKNEW, He also did predestine to be conformed to the image of His Son. God didn't predestine salvation,,,
He KNEW who would be saved and predestined that they should be like His Son,,,the first-born.....
Romans 8:29

30 and whom He did fore-appoint, these also He did call; and whom He did call, these also He declared righteous; and whom He declared righteous, these also He did glorify.
Those that God predestined TO BE LIKE HIS SON, He also called and declared them justified.
Note that in verse 28 it states that all things work for the good to them that are called according to His purpose. We each have a purpose to do God's will.
Ephesians 4:11
1 Corinthians 12:11

Romans 8 in the amplified version,

29 For those whom He foreknew [of whom He was aware and loved beforehand], He also destined from the beginning [foreordaining them] to be molded into the image of His Son [and share inwardly His likeness], that He might become the firstborn among many brethren.

30 And those whom He thus foreordained, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified (acquitted, made righteous, putting them into right standing with Himself). And those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity and condition or state of being].
Notice that the poster did correctly use the word FOREKNEW.
This is all important. God foreknew who would choose Him, he did not predestine them to choose Him. He gave us free will and with our free will we chose God after He revealed Himself to us, and the whole world.


Ephesians 1 in the YLT
3 Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,
Before the foundation of the world, God predestined us to be holy and unblemished before Him IN CHRIST.
Predestination is always speaking about a HOW, not about a WHO.

5 having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Again, God predestined those that would choose Him to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ.
Again, a HOW not a WHO.

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He did make us accepted in the beloved,

And in the amplified version,
Ephesians 1
3 May blessing (praise, laudation, and eulogy) be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual (given by the Holy Spirit) blessing in the heavenly realm!

4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love.

5 For He foreordained us (destined us, planned in love for us) to be adopted (revealed) as His own children through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the purpose of His will [because it pleased Him and was His kind intent]—
Same as above, no matter what version you care to use.

If you read the entire N.T. with a clean slate mind, you'll find that what I have written above makes much more sense when you reconcile it with the God we worship. We are not allowed to change the character of God. I doubt He's too happy about this...

A loving God.
A merciful God.
A just God.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Yes I read it. But you went all the way back there to find it and you could have just posted it to make it easy for me!

So, here is post number 120.
My comments will be in green:

Many people would rather it says this,
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those who have chosen me, but raise them up at the last day."John 6:39
John 6:39 is speaking about an IT. People are not an IT.
verse 39 is referring to the job that God sent His son to do...redeem mankind for the resurrection.

Verse 40 is speaking about persons since Jesus is referring to them as "him". And, as usual, it states that ANYONE who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life.
John 3:29-40
39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”


Our predestination is intimately a part of our salvation however.
Romans 8, in the YLT version uses fore-appoint for predestine.
Same difference.


29 because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;
Whom God FOREKNEW, He also did predestine to be conformed to the image of His Son. God didn't predestine salvation,,,
He KNEW who would be saved and predestined that they should be like His Son,,,the first-born.....
Romans 8:29

30 and whom He did fore-appoint, these also He did call; and whom He did call, these also He declared righteous; and whom He declared righteous, these also He did glorify.
Those that God predestined TO BE LIKE HIS SON, He also called and declared them justified.
Note that in verse 28 it states that all things work for the good to them that are called according to His purpose. We each have a purpose to do God's will.
Ephesians 4:11
1 Corinthians 12:11

Romans 8 in the amplified version,

29 For those whom He foreknew [of whom He was aware and loved beforehand], He also destined from the beginning [foreordaining them] to be molded into the image of His Son [and share inwardly His likeness], that He might become the firstborn among many brethren.

30 And those whom He thus foreordained, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified (acquitted, made righteous, putting them into right standing with Himself). And those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity and condition or state of being].
Notice that the poster did correctly use the word FOREKNEW.
This is all important. God foreknew who would choose Him, he did not predestine them to choose Him. He gave us free will and with our free will we chose God after He revealed Himself to us, and the whole world.


Ephesians 1 in the YLT
3 Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,
Before the foundation of the world, God predestined us to be holy and unblemished before Him IN CHRIST.
Predestination is always speaking about a HOW, not about a WHO.

5 having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Again, God predestined those that would choose Him to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ.
Again, a HOW not a WHO.

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He did make us accepted in the beloved,

And in the amplified version,
Ephesians 1
3 May blessing (praise, laudation, and eulogy) be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual (given by the Holy Spirit) blessing in the heavenly realm!

4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love.

5 For He foreordained us (destined us, planned in love for us) to be adopted (revealed) as His own children through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the purpose of His will [because it pleased Him and was His kind intent]—
Same as above, no matter what version you care to use.

If you read the entire N.T. with a clean slate mind, you'll find that what I have written above makes much more sense when you reconcile it with the God we worship. We are not allowed to change the character of God. I doubt He's too happy about this...

A loving God.
A merciful God.
A just God.

"Again, God predestined those that would choose Him to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ.
Again, a HOW not a WHO."

can you clarify this?