Is It OK When They Do It?

[DaisyDay]

The problem is that different standards are being applied in a hypocritical way are happening so often by one side that it's only too obvious:

The problem is that you seem to want to apply the same standards to apples as to hazelnuts.

BLM riots that go on for weeks nationwide causing billions in damage and 25 deaths==peaceful protest.
Protest at Capitol that results in one death at the hands of a capitol police cop==democracy overturned.

The BLM protests lasted months and were, in fact, mostly peaceful. The riots were far fewer and no one called them peaceful, so your false narrative is glaring. The protest at the Capitol devolved into a riot that one man could have stopped at any time. There were a lot of injuries, a few deaths and ultimate failure.

Russia targeting civilians in Ukraine with guns and missiles==war crime.
Hamas targeting civilians in Israel with guns, knives, fire==freedom fighting.

Russia is a nation. Hamas is not a nation. The Gaza Strip is an occupied nation - have they ever been not blockaded? The West Bank is an apartheid state whose territory is steadily being chipped away.

Trump speaking in favor of conservatism near the Capitol==clear and present danger (requiring 700 years in prison)
Rashida Tlaib rallying Hamas supporters inside the Capitol==freedom of speech and assembly (even though cops were assaulted)

Sedition is not conservatism. Trump is charged with four counts, requiring nowhere near to 700 years, for his part on Jan 6 - conspiracy against rights, obstruction and the attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiracy to defraud the United States.

 

[Aldebaran]

The BLM protests lasted months and were, in fact, mostly peaceful. The riots were far fewer and no one called them peaceful, so your false narrative is glaring. The protest at the Capitol devolved into a riot that one man could have stopped at any time. There were a lot of injuries, a few deaths and ultimate failure.

BLM riots resulted in 25 deaths, far more injuries, many lost businesses, billions in damage. Far worse, obviously.

Russia is a nation. Hamas is not a nation. The Gaza Strip is an occupied nation - have they ever been not blockaded? The West Bank is an apartheid state whose territory is steadily being chipped away.

And this makes the slaughter of 1,400 Israeli civilians ok, how?

 

[rambot]

I recognize that 100% of the video shown by the MSM is violent, since it supports their narrative.

No....but because a) It ACTUALLY happened and b) "If it bleeds it leads". Nothing to do with a narrative. The protestors created their own narrative.

But once the many, many hours of video became available and shown by those who are more interested in truth and facts, it became quite obvious that it was a very tiny minority who were violent.

But even in the "violent" BLM protests, not all of THOSE participants were violent. So come on man...pick a lane.

Compare violent PROTESTS to violent PROTESTS or compare violent INDIVIDUALS to violent "individuals"

At the same time, the BLM violence was so widespread that even the MSM couldn't help but air it on their broadcasts--even though they tried their very best to call it "mostly peaceful protests" while fires raged in the background--and 25 people ended up dead.

Yes well, stealing a slurpee MAY not garner the same amount of worry as folks threatenning to kidnap elected leaders.

 

[DaisyDay]

BLM riots resulted in 25 deaths, far more injuries, many lost businesses, billions in damage. Far worse, obviously.

Worse in terms of property damage, maybe, but again, you're comparing 9,000 discreet protests to a single afternoon of active insurrection. You have yet to prove that the actual rioting was caused by BLM rather than Antifa, counter protesters (notably the Proud Boys) and opportunists.

And this makes the slaughter of 1,400 Israeli civilians ok, how?

It is NOT okay. Is the retaliatory slaughter of thousands of Gazan civilians ok to you?

 

[Aldebaran]

No....but because a) It ACTUALLY happened and b) "If it bleeds it leads". Nothing to do with a narrative. The protestors created their own narrative.

Still doesn't make it 100% violent, which was your assertion.

But even in the "violent" BLM protests, not all of THOSE participants were violent. So come on man...pick a lane.

Compare violent PROTESTS to violent PROTESTS or compare violent INDIVIDUALS to violent "individuals"

Ok, there was just one event at the Capitol, with a small minority of the individuals being violent.
There were thousands of BLM event all across the country, with a large number of them being violent, as the death toll and property damage shows.

Yes well, stealing a slurpee MAY not garner the same amount of worry as folks threatenning to kidnap elected leaders.

Slurpees don't cost the billions of dollars that were lost, nor does it result in 25 deaths.
But continue to support terrorists, antisemites and violent rioters if that's what you wish to do. I'll be glad to give you the ability to expose those values.

 

[Aldebaran]

Worse in terms of property damage, maybe, but again, you're comparing 9,000 discreet protests to a single afternoon of active insurrection. You have yet to prove that the actual rioting was caused by BLM rather than Antifa, counter protesters (notably the Proud Boys) and opportunists.

9,000 "protests" that resulted in 25 deaths and billions in damage didn't seem all that discreet at the time. They got the attention of the MSM. Perhaps "discreet" is the wrong word. "Excused" seems more accurate.

It is NOT okay. Is the retaliatory slaughter of thousands of Gazan civilians ok to you?

Ask Hamas. They're the ones using "thousands of Gazan civilians" (and hostages from around the world) as human shields.

 

[DaisyDay]

9,000 "protests" that resulted in 25 deaths and billions in damage didn't seem all that discreet at the time.

Discreet meaning separate.

They got the attention of the MSM. Perhaps "discreet" is the wrong word. "Excused" seems more accurate.

I can't help it that you don't understand what "discreet event" means, but it is not making you look particularly clever as you continue your riffing.

Ask Hamas. They're the ones using "thousands of Gazan civilians" (and hostages from around the world) as human shields.

No, I'm asking you - not that I expect a coherent answer given your joy in not answering any direct questions. Is the retaliatory slaughter of thousands of Gazan civilians ok to you?

 

[rambot]

Still doesn't make it 100% violent, which was your assertion.

You misunderstood.
There was only 1 J6 protest. That 1 protest was violent. 1 out of 1 equals 100%

Ok, there was just one event at the Capitol, with a small minority of the individuals being violent.
There were thousands of BLM event all across the country, with a large number of them being violent, as the death toll and property damage shows.

Again...you missed it. There were "thousands ofBLM events across the country"...and only 7% of them were violent.

But continue to support terrorists, antisemites and violent rioters if that's what you wish to do. I'll be glad to give you the ability to expose those values.

Every time you post about J6 I feel the same thing.
And it's antiZionist not antisemite.

 

[Aldebaran]

Discreet meaning separate.


I can't help it that you don't understand what "discreet event" means, but it is not making you look particularly clever as you continue your riffing.

Sorry, but you may want to look it up. Or just click this link provided for you:

Definition of DISCREET

having or showing discernment or good judgment in conduct and especially in speech : prudent; especially : capable of preserving prudent silence; unpretentious, modest; unobtrusive, unnoticeable… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

No, I'm asking you - not that I expect a coherent answer given your joy in not answering any direct questions. Is the retaliatory slaughter of thousands of Gazan civilians ok to you?

Irrelevant, since it's not happening.
Why don't you want to talk about the 1,400 Israeli civilians that were slaughtered without provocation? No point in denying that it happened since the Hamas people who did it made certain to document it all on video.

 

[Aldebaran]

You misunderstood.
There was only 1 J6 protest. That 1 protest was violent. 1 out of 1 equals 100%

Didn't you just tell me to:

Compare violent PROTESTS to violent PROTESTS or compare violent INDIVIDUALS to violent "individuals"

So let's do that. A small number of individuals at J6 were violent. The majority were not.

Again...you missed it. There were "thousands ofBLM events across the country"...and only 7% of them were violent.

Someone here admitted there were 9,000 of them. 7% of 9,000 is 630. That's quite a bit of violence. Yet you can't get over an event that was just 1 event on 1 day. But 630, no problem!

 

[rambot]

Didn't you just tell me to:


So let's do that. A small number of individuals at J6 were violent. The majority were not.

Now you're not going to like that I get into numbers and facts and stuff because that gets tough to address on your side.

J6
How many people were at the protest outside the Capitol? Numbers I've seen are around 2500. I've seen psychos put that number at 100,000 so forget that nonsense...even seen some dreamers say 10,000 But 2500 seems to be a VERY reasonable guess for the number of people around the actual Capitol building.

Of that, 1100 were arrested.

That is 44% charged. Wow!
That's a lot of lawbreakers.
The number of people violent towards a copy is at 284 (according to USA Today) (with 315 charged with violent entry but we won't count them....)
That's 11%

So 11% of those protestors were violent or disruptive to the police.

BLM
The number of individuals participating in BLM protests across the country is estimated to be between 15,000,000 and 26,000,000.
If BLM had the SAME proportion of violence toward cops as at J6, we would have seen 1,600,000-2,500,000 people arrested for VIOLENCE or obstruction of justice against police.

There were 14,000 were arrested associated with those protests nationwide.

Now, many of those were charged with things like breaking curfew...those charges were dropped (the major urban centres dropped, like 90% of charges in some cases but ALL cities dropped a lot of charges).

But, what the heck, let's say all 14,000 were for dangerous offences (spoiler.....that isn't even close to being considered true....).
That is between 0.05% - 0.1%.
Whoa. So VIOLENCE charges at J6 against ALL charges at BLM protests already occurred at a rate 110x greater.


But in actually, The Department of Justice said 300 people were charged with violent offences stemming from those protests....
That means, of ALL the participants at BLM protests, only 0,00018% people were charged with violence.

I'm pretty good at math and I can see that 11% is a lot more than 0,00018%. I want to believe you can see it too.


You keep kvetching that I am burdenned with a false narrative? Well, there is that MATH that proves my point and disproves your point.

Someone here admitted there were 9,000 of them. 7% of 9,000 is 630. That's quite a bit of violence. Yet you can't get over an event that was just 1. But 630, no problem!

Well, one out of one IS 100%.
And that's why it's illogical to compare "the number of violent protests". Because though my percentage is higher, your number is higher as there were more opportunities for violence.
I'm not saying there was no violence at BLM. That's silly. I'm saying that comparing BLM protests and the J6 protest
1) The individuals at the J6 protests were exponentially more violent. EXPONENTIALLY moreso (61,000x more so in fact)
2) They were more violent because many were trying to overthrow the government even if they were
3) Makes no sense to compare "violent protests" given the desparity in the number of protests.
4) Makes a LOT of sense to compare the individuals and the charges of the individuals attending these protests.

7% IS less than 100% no matter how you spin it.
I just read 7,750 of them. So that number is smaller, but really, it's of no real significant different to either of our arguments.

It was 1 for 1. That is hitting 100%. That means if there were 9000 attempts to overthrow an election, 9000 would be violent. People [Edit:be kind] watched it all fall hilliariously (albeit dangerously flat) should have recognized that their false god wasn't going to rescue them and frankly, really didn't actually give a damn about them.


Ps...you trot the 2billion in damage figure out for BLM?
Spread out of 7700 protests that's about 260,000$/protest.
2,870,000$/protest for J6



Boy...I...I guess that means that the far right is far more violent, destructive and filled with more hatred towards police than, you know, the protests against police brutality.

I'm excited to read a smackdown of my data

 

[Aldebaran]

Now you're not going to like that I get into numbers and facts and stuff because that gets tough to address on your side.

J6
How many people were at the protest outside the Capitol? Numbers I've seen are around 2500. I've seen psychos put that number at 100,000 so forget that nonsense...even seen some dreamers say 10,000 But 2500 seems to be a VERY reasonable guess for the number of people around the actual Capitol building.

Of that, 1100 were arrested.

That is 44% charged. Wow!
That's a lot of lawbreakers.
The number of people violent towards a copy is at 284 (according to USA Today) (with 315 charged with violent entry but we won't count them....)
That's 11%

So 11% of those protestors were violent or disruptive to the police.

BLM
The number of individuals participating in BLM protests across the country is estimated to be between 15,000,000 and 26,000,000.
If BLM had the SAME proportion of violence toward cops as at J6, we would have seen 1,600,000-2,500,000 people arrested for VIOLENCE or obstruction of justice against police.

There were 14,000 were arrested associated with those protests nationwide.

Now, many of those were charged with things like breaking curfew...those charges were dropped (the major urban centres dropped, like 90% of charges in some cases but ALL cities dropped a lot of charges).

But, what the heck, let's say all 14,000 were for dangerous offences (spoiler.....that isn't even close to being considered true....).
That is between 0.05% - 0.1%.
Whoa. So VIOLENCE charges at J6 against ALL charges at BLM protests already occurred at a rate 110x greater.


But in actually, The Department of Justice said 300 people were charged with violent offences stemming from those protests....
That means, of ALL the participants at BLM protests, only 0,00018% people were charged with violence.

I'm pretty good at math and I can see that 11% is a lot more than 0,00018%. I want to believe you can see it too.


You keep kvetching that I am burdenned with a false narrative? Well, there is that MATH that proves my point and disproves your point.


Well, one out of one IS 100%.
And that's why it's illogical to compare "the number of violent protests". Because though my percentage is higher, your number is higher as there were more opportunities for violence.
I'm not saying there was no violence at BLM. That's silly. I'm saying that comparing BLM protests and the J6 protest
1) The individuals at the J6 protests were exponentially more violent. EXPONENTIALLY moreso (61,000x more so in fact)
2) They were more violent because many were trying to overthrow the government even if they were
3) Makes no sense to compare "violent protests" given the desparity in the number of protests.
4) Makes a LOT of sense to compare the individuals and the charges of the individuals attending these protests.

7% IS less than 100% no matter how you spin it.
I just read 7,750 of them. So that number is smaller, but really, it's of no real significant different to either of our arguments.

It was 1 for 1. That is hitting 100%. That means if there were 9000 attempts to overthrow an election, 9000 would be violent. People [Edit:be kind] watched it all fall hilliariously (albeit dangerously flat) should have recognized that their false god wasn't going to rescue them and frankly, really didn't actually give a damn about them.


Ps...you trot the 2billion in damage figure out for BLM?
Spread out of 7700 protests that's about 260,000$/protest.
2,870,000$/protest for J6



Boy...I...I guess that means that the far right is far more violent, destructive and filled with more hatred towards police than, you know, the protests against police brutality.

I'm excited to read a smackdown of my data

Not a single citation to back up any of your claims.
So what's the data you want a smackdown on?

 

[rambot]

Not a single citation to back up any of your claims.
So what's the data you want a smackdown on?

In chronological order....
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/30/1190...d-for-jan-6-many-name-trump-in-their-statemen

More than 950 people have been charged in Jan. 6 Capitol riot, but investigation 'far from over'.

BLM Data
Black Lives Matter May Be the Largest Movement in U.S. History
Hawaiian shirts, guns and anticipation of war: Who are the 'Boogaloo boys'? [bonus: false flag operatives as well as arrest number]
Over 300 People Facing Federal Charges For Crimes Committed During Nationwide Demonstrations
Demonstrations and Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020.

Demonstrations and Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020.

To be clear, I read exactly as much as you would have to do get to my numbers. If you were concerned about any specific data set.


I will also note that I see absolutely no objection to the calculations as presented, though you found the data undercited....which it was. Until now.

So again, I welcome a smackdown. But I am not going to cite any of my calculations. You'll have to disprove those on your own.

I BEG of you that before you complain about the numbers you check the date of the article.

 

[Aldebaran]

In chronological order....
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/30/1190...d-for-jan-6-many-name-trump-in-their-statemen

More than 950 people have been charged in Jan. 6 Capitol riot, but investigation 'far from over'.

BLM Data
Black Lives Matter May Be the Largest Movement in U.S. History
Hawaiian shirts, guns and anticipation of war: Who are the 'Boogaloo boys'? [bonus: false flag operatives as well as arrest number]
Over 300 People Facing Federal Charges For Crimes Committed During Nationwide Demonstrations
Demonstrations and Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020.

Demonstrations and Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020.

To be clear, I read exactly as much as you would have to do get to my numbers. If you were concerned about any specific data set.


I will also note that I see absolutely no objection to the calculations as presented, though you found the data undercited....which it was. Until now.

So again, I welcome a smackdown. But I am not going to cite any of my calculations. You'll have to disprove those on your own.

I BEG of you that before you complain about the numbers you check the date of the article.

I see in the initial 2 articles (liberal media sources, of course), it is always mentioned that people were either arrested or charged. In other words, accused. People can accuse someone all day long of whatever they want, but it doesn't make the accusations true.

Then the BLM stuff:
First link is to Harvard, where the highly educated students of this Ivy league school protest in favor of Hamas murderers. Nuff said. I don't give even half a crap what comes out of that place about BLM, which also was in favor of those murderers. Sorry!

And then your link to acleddata.com article contains lines such as "The longstanding crisis of police violence and structural racism in America hit a new flashpoint this year." which is just more extreme leftist talking points.

Not interested.

 

[rambot]

I see in the initial 2 articles (liberal media sources, of course), it is always mentioned that people were either arrested or charged. In other words, accused. People can accuse someone all day long of whatever they want, but it doesn't make the accusations true.

Then the BLM stuff:
First link is to Harvard, where the highly educated students of this Ivy league school protest in favor of Hamas murderers. Nuff said. I don't give even half a crap what comes out of that place about BLM, which also was in favor of those murderers. Sorry!

And then your link to acleddata.com article contains lines such as "The longstanding crisis of police violence and structural racism in America hit a new flashpoint this year." which is just more extreme leftist talking points.

Not interested.

That is absolutely pathetic.

I knew when you asked for citations you were doing so in bad faith but I humored you.

Onto ignore

 

[Aldebaran]

That is absolutely pathetic.

I knew when you asked for citations you were doing so in bad faith but I humored you.

Onto ignore

I wanted citations, but not from sources that put out extreme leftist rhetoric that demonstrates an agenda rather than truth. If I want real facts about BLM, don't give me sources that support BLM. Otherwise, you'd have to accept Newsmax or Alex Jones and their rhetoric as proof for Right wing points.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

One was an attempt to overthrow the government. One was not.

What a selective memory.

Not only was there never any attempt to "overthrow the government", there was not even an "insurrection" something extremists parroted loudly and for years. NO one was charged with "insurrection". There was a protest turned riot (for some) and everyone who committed dangerous acts (and even those who didn't) were arrested and the building cleared by 7 pm the same day.

There were several actual takeovers during the BLM protests/riots, however, none of which were treated as seriously. Several city blocks were commandeered by a group of radicals for weeks, (remember CHOP), and a federal building was commandeered in Portland by the rioters.

"Rioters gathered to attack the courthouse for weeks during the summer of 2020, and have also marched on Mayor Ted Wheeler’s home. City police spent almost $8 million responding to the riots, making over 900 arrests throughout 120 consecutive days of unrest."

This was much more dangerous to the community - and for months. Yet, extremists pretend a protest/riot at the Capitol for a few hours was the bigger problem. Optics by partisans.

Rioters Set Fire to Federal Courthouse in Portland One Day after Fencing Removed

Rioters targeted the federal courthouse in Portland, Ore., on Thursday evening in renewed clashes between demonstrators and federal police. The attack on the courthouse came one day after authorities removed fencing initially erected over the summer, in response to continued riots following the...

news.yahoo.com

 

[Aldebaran]

What a selective memory.

Not only was there never any attempt to "overthrow the government", there was not even an "insurrection" something extremists parroted loudly and for years. NO one was charged with "insurrection". There was a protest turned riot (for some) and everyone who committed dangerous acts (and even those who didn't) were arrested and the building cleared by 7 pm the same day.

There were several actual takeovers during the BLM protests/riots, however, none of which were treated as seriously. Several city blocks were commandeered by a group of radicals for weeks, (remember CHOP), and a federal building was commandeered in Portland by the rioters.

"Rioters gathered to attack the courthouse for weeks during the summer of 2020, and have also marched on Mayor Ted Wheeler’s home. City police spent almost $8 million responding to the riots, making over 900 arrests throughout 120 consecutive days of unrest."

This was much more dangerous to the community - and for months. Yet, extremists pretend a protest/riot at the Capitol for a few hours was the bigger problem. Optics by partisans.

Rioters Set Fire to Federal Courthouse in Portland One Day after Fencing Removed

Rioters targeted the federal courthouse in Portland, Ore., on Thursday evening in renewed clashes between demonstrators and federal police. The attack on the courthouse came one day after authorities removed fencing initially erected over the summer, in response to continued riots following the...

news.yahoo.com

Too bad they won't view the attempted burning down of a courthouse to be the "overthrow of the legal system". The phrase, "no one is above the law" was never applied to that situation either. Wonder why.....

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Too bad they won't view the attempted burning down of a courthouse to be the "overthrow of the legal system". The phrase, "no one is above the law" was never applied to that situation either. Wonder why.....

Both need to be treated the same way. In both, aggrieved citizens went too far. We cannot have partisan methods of legal response.

 

[rambot]

What a selective memory.

Not only was there never any attempt to "overthrow the government", there was not even an "insurrection" something extremists parroted loudly and for years. NO one was charged with "insurrection". There was a protest turned riot (for some) and everyone who committed dangerous acts (and even those who didn't) were arrested and the building cleared by 7 pm the same day.

Seditious conspiracy.
Weapons in storage lockers
Reconnessence of politicians
Tours of the building (including into areas not normally toured)
Various and sundry weapons BROUGHT to the Capitol
Zipties and intent to kidnap/trap legislators
Pursuance of legislators while in the Capitol
Even Republican legislators were hiding in fear during the protests but afterwards, were very supportive of J6


CLEARLY they were trying to overthrow a DULY ELECTED president. But for whatever reason Republicans seem to believe that elections no longer serve a purpose (moreso if you don't win)

There were several actual takeovers during the BLM protests/riots, however, none of which were treated as seriously. Several city blocks were commandeered by a group of radicals for weeks, (remember CHOP), and a federal building was commandeered in Portland by the rioters.

You can see my numbers. The j6 riots were orders of magnitude worse.

"Rioters gathered to attack the courthouse for weeks during the summer of 2020, and have also marched on Mayor Ted Wheeler’s home. City police spent almost $8 million responding to the riots, making over 900 arrests throughout 120 consecutive days of unrest."

This was much more dangerous to the community - and for months. Yet, extremists pretend a protest/riot at the Capitol for a few hours was the bigger problem. Optics by partisans.

It was objectively worse unless you care to provide me with data that supports the opposite. You sure can complain about the source of my data but until your side provides data to contradict it, it's all just a hot air balloon of rage.