Is it Necessary to Keep the Law?

[daq]

No today, we walk in the Spirit and no longer under the old covenant.
We are under grace.

John 6:63 TS2009
63 “It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh does not profit at all. The words that I speak to you are Spirit and are life.

Therefore not only is the Testimony of the Meshiah the new Spirit of the renewed covenant foretold in Ezekiel the Prophet, (Eze 11:19-20, Eze 36:25-27), but the discourse in John 6 concerning the Bread of Life and Manna is the spiritual and supernal explanation of its background source, which is Exodus 16.

 

[TPop]

We will clearly see the answer at the end...
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Hello,

[Rev 22:14 KJV] 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

"commandments", obeying them means Blessings. This is not a salvational concern. And Love covers it perfectly. Love God. Love Neighbor. Obeys the commandments without going back to the law. That is why those two are there. Fulfillment and Improvement.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Soyeong]

No today, we walk in the Spirit

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Mosaic Law.

and no longer under the old covenant.

In Deuteronomy 30, Ezekiel 36:26-27, and Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves following the Mosaic Law.

We are under grace.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this is what it means to be under grace and it has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through the Mosaic Law, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, which again is salvation by grace through faith. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way in obedience to His law and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, an to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey the Mosaic Law is part of the content of His gift of salvation.

 

[Soyeong]

Hello,

[Rev 22:14 KJV] 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

"commandments", obeying them means Blessings. This is not a salvational concern. And Love covers it perfectly. Love God. Love Neighbor. Obeys the commandments without going back to the law. That is why those two are there. Fulfillment and Improvement.

Peace and Blessings

God's laws are His commandment and eternal life is a salvation issue. It is impossible to love God and our neighbor instead of obeying God's laws for how to do that.

 

[TPop]

God's laws are His commandment and eternal life is a salvation issue. It is impossible to love God and our neighbor instead of obeying God's laws for how to do that.

Are you able to keep God's laws 100%? I am not.

"God's laws are His commandment and eternal life is a salvation issue."

What does this mean? I am not sure what you are meaning or inferring.
Yes. Eternal life IS salvation. But keeping the laws are not part of salvation. Salvation comes through cross and faith.
Only Jesus kept the law 100%

Peace and Blessings

 

[Soyeong]

Are you able to keep God's laws 100%? I am not.

"God's laws are His commandment and eternal life is a salvation issue."

What does this mean? I am not sure what you are meaning or inferring.
Yes. Eternal life IS salvation. But keeping the laws are not part of salvation. Salvation comes through cross and faith.
Only Jesus kept the law 100%

Peace and Blessings

God's law came with instructions for what to do when His children sinned, so it did not require us to have perfect obedience. Repentance doesn't change the fact that we have not had perfect obedience, so the fact that we can repent after we have sinned and still be saved even though we have not had perfect obedience again means that we are not required to have prefect obedience. The only reason why someone would need to have perfect obedience is if they are going to give themselves to pay for the sins of the world, the rest of us can have our sins forgiven. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience that only Jesus can do.

Our salvation is from sin and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so being an obeyer of the Mosaic Law through faith in Jesus is intrinsically part of his gift of saving us from not being an obeyer of the Mosaic Law. I don't see how you can deny that keeping laws are part of salvation from not keeping them. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so obedience to it is the way to have faith, and in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

 

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[oikonomia]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? And we see his answer, 'God forbid.' especially if we ' that are dead to sin'.

The "God forbid!" is not God forbid that we do not keep the law. It is God forbid that we continue to live in sin so more grace would come.

In Galatians those who continue to keep the law concerning circumcision are deptors to keep the whole law.
They have fallen from grace. They have nullified the mighty power of grace operating within them. He says in essence "Don't do that."

And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
You have been brought to nought, separated from Christ, you who are being justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:3,4)

1.) Fallen from grace here does not mean they have lost eternal redemption.

2.) Fallen from grace means they have abdicated the great power of grace. They have been brought to nothing
because of setting their hearts on law keeping rather than on grace.

Grace is not only God's power over man. It is also God's power of life operating WITHIN the believers.
To learn to live a life in union with the living Christ results in them awaiting "the hope of righteousness."

For we by the Spirit out of faith eagerly await the hope of righteousness. (v.5)

The Spirit is the divine life imparting Spirit. The Spirit is Christ Himself.
the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45b)

This awaiting the hope of righteousness is not about awaiting to be righteous in heaven someday.
It is allowing through practice the Spirit infusing our living with righteous living more and more.
What a hope! What a power of indwelling grace.

We ought not to fall from this grace's indwelling power.
And we ought not to nullify it with an attitude to go back to law keeping.

Paul did not nullify this indwelling grace to go back to law keeping. He learned to not live alone but live a mingled life
in union with the Perfect Righteous One Christ.

I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness is through law, then Christ has died for nothing. (Gal. 2:20,21)

What he practiced he entreated his audience also to practice, namely to not receive God's grace in vain ignoring its great power.
And working together with Him, we also entreat you not to receive the grace of God in vain; (2 Cor. 6:1)

Paul wanted at all times for everyone to find him not in his own law keeping righteousness but living
a mingled life with Christ.

And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith, (Phil. 3:9)

Some posters here want always to be found in the Law having their own righteousness.
Paul wanted to be found completely in the realm of faith in Christ being everything he wasn't - EVERYTHING.

it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; (Gal. 2:20)
Compare:
But by the grace of God I am what I am; and His grace unto me did not turn out to be in vain, but, on the contrary, I labored more abundantly than all of them, yet not I but the grace of God which is with me. (1 Cor. 15;10)

"Not I but Christ" is also "Not I but the grace of God which is with me."

Grace then is not only "unmerited favor" that we would not go to hell.
Grace is the power of this living Person empowering us to not keep the law
by our self effort. But grace in the form of "a life giving Spirit" empowers us to fullfill the righteous requirement of the law.

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit. (Rom. 8:4)

So after regeneration we need to both grow in grace and be empowered in grace.

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Pet. 3:18a)
You therefore, my child, be empowered in the grace which is in Christ Jesus; (2 Tim. 2:1)

 

[Gary K]

The "God forbid!" is not God forbid that we do not keep the law. It is God forbid that we continue to live in sin so more grace would come.

In Galatians those who continue to keep the law concerning circumcision are deptors to keep the whole law.
They have fallen from grace. They have nullified the mighty power of grace operating within them. He says in essence "Don't do that."

And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
You have been brought to nought, separated from Christ, you who are being justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:3,4)

1.) Fallen from grace here does not mean they have lost eternal redemption.

2.) Fallen from grace means they have abdicated the great power of grace. They have been brought to nothing
because of setting their hearts on law keeping rather than on grace.

Grace is not only God's power over man. It is also God's power of life operating WITHIN the believers.
To learn to live a life in union with the living Christ results in them awaiting "the hope of righteousness."

For we by the Spirit out of faith eagerly await the hope of righteousness. (v.5)

The Spirit is the divine life imparting Spirit. The Spirit is Christ Himself.
For the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45b)

This awaiting the hope if righteousness is not about awaiting to be righteous in heaven someday.
It is allowing through practice the Spirit infusing our living with righteous living more and more.
What a hope! What a power of indwelling grace.

We ought not to fall from this grace's indwelling power.
And we ought not to nullify it with an attitude to go back to law keeping.

Paul did not nullify this indwelling grace to go back to law keeping. He learned to not live alone but live a mingled life
in union with the Perfect Righteous One Christ.

I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness is through law, then Christ has died for nothing. (Gal. 2:20,21)

What he practiced he entreated his audience also to practice, namely to not receive God's grace in vain ignoring its great power.
And working together with Him, we also entreat you not to receive the grace of God in vain; (2 Cor. 6:1)

Paul wanted at all times for everyone to find him not in his own law keeping righteousness but living
a mingled life with Christ.

And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith, (Phil. 3:9)

Some posters here want always to be found in the Law having their own righteousness.
Paul wanted to be found completely in the realm of faith in Christ being everything he wasn't - EVERYTHING.

it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; (Gal. 2:20)
Compare:
But by the grace of God I am what I am; and His grace unto me did not turn out to be in vain, but, on the contrary, I labored more abundantly than all of them, yet not I but the grace of God which is with me. (1 Cor. 15;10)

"Not I but Christ" is also "Not I but the grace of God which is with me."

Grace then is not only "unmerited favor" that we would not go to hell.
Grace is the power of this living Person empowering us to not keep the law
by our self effort. But grace in the form of "a life giving Spirit" empowers us to fullfill the righteous requirement of the law.

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit. (Rom. 8:4)

So after regeneration we need to both grow in grace and be empowered in grace.

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Pet. 3:18a)
You therefore, my child, be empowered in the grace which is in Christ Jesus; (2 Tim. 2:1)

So by not keeping the 4th commandment we are establishing the law?

 

[TPop]

The "God forbid!" is not God forbid that we do not keep the law. It is God forbid that we continue to live in sin so more grace would come.

In Galatians those who continue to keep the law concerning circumcision are deptors to keep the whole law.
They have fallen from grace. They have nullified the mighty power of grace operating within them. He says in essence "Don't do that."

And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
You have been brought to nought, separated from Christ, you who are being justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:3,4)

1.) Fallen from grace here does not mean they have lost eternal redemption.

2.) Fallen from grace means they have abdicated the great power of grace. They have been brought to nothing
because of setting their hearts on law keeping rather than on grace.

Grace is not only God's power over man. It is also God's power of life operating WITHIN the believers.
To learn to live a life in union with the living Christ results in them awaiting "the hope of righteousness."

For we by the Spirit out of faith eagerly await the hope of righteousness. (v.5)

The Spirit is the divine life imparting Spirit. The Spirit is Christ Himself.
For the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45b)

This awaiting the hope if righteousness is not about awaiting to be righteous in heaven someday.
It is allowing through practice the Spirit infusing our living with righteous living more and more.
What a hope! What a power of indwelling grace.

We ought not to fall from this grace's indwelling power.
And we ought not to nullify it with an attitude to go back to law keeping.

Paul did not nullify this indwelling grace to go back to law keeping. He learned to not live alone but live a mingled life
in union with the Perfect Righteous One Christ.

I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness is through law, then Christ has died for nothing. (Gal. 2:20,21)

What he practiced he entreated his audience also to practice, namely to not receive God's grace in vain ignoring its great power.
And working together with Him, we also entreat you not to receive the grace of God in vain; (2 Cor. 6:1)

Paul wanted at all times for everyone to find him not in his own law keeping righteousness but living
a mingled life with Christ.

And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith, (Phil. 3:9)

Some posters here want always to be found in the Law having their own righteousness.
Paul wanted to be found completely in the realm of faith in Christ being everything he wasn't - EVERYTHING.

it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; (Gal. 2:20)
Compare:
But by the grace of God I am what I am; and His grace unto me did not turn out to be in vain, but, on the contrary, I labored more abundantly than all of them, yet not I but the grace of God which is with me. (1 Cor. 15;10)

"Not I but Christ" is also "Not I but the grace of God which is with me."

Grace then is not only "unmerited favor" that we would not go to hell.
Grace is the power of this living Person empowering us to not keep the law
by our self effort. But grace in the form of "a life giving Spirit" empowers us to fullfill the righteous requirement of the law.

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit. (Rom. 8:4)

So after regeneration we need to both grow in grace and be empowered in grace.

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Pet. 3:18a)
You therefore, my child, be empowered in the grace which is in Christ Jesus; (2 Tim. 2:1)

Well said.

God forbid is that we do not attempt to sin more in an attempt to gain more Grace.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Soyeong]

Love God. Love Neighbor. Obeys the commandments without going back to the law.

That is contradictory. The position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is the position that we should obey all of the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit murder, and if that they just need to obey the command to love, so they don't need to go back to the law against committing murder, then they've misunderstood what they are being commanded to do.

 

[TPop]

So by not keeping the 4th commandment we are establishing the law?

Yes. Fullfilled in us by Jesus, through His Love for us and our Love for God and Others.

By paying attention to the 4th Commandment, written for the Jews during OT times, you are placing it before the new wine, the completed, the improved, of Love God and Love others. And Grace is for nothing. It is then acquired in vain.

OT allows for divorce. Jesus took those allowances and closed them and completed and fulfilled that law stating it never was to be. And marriage is a joining of Man and Woman, by God, that cannot be terminated by man. To believe you can still get divorced is to go back to OT law that has been completed and fulfilled by something better.

It is the same to look back to the 4th commandment. The 4th commandment is no longer needed and not in effect as Jesus fulfilled and completed it with Love. OT rules. NT Love. They could never save themselves. Every year they killed a goat for blood to pay for sins and the scapegoat was taken and left out in the wilderness. Every year they had to do that.

Now we are saved. By Love. To Love. Saved to Works of Love.

Peace and Blessings

 

[oikonomia]

Yes. Fullfilled in us by Jesus, through His Love for us and our Love for God and Others.

By paying attention to the 4th Commandment, written for the Jews during OT times, you are placing it before the new wine, the completed, the improved, of Love God and Love others. And Grace is for nothing. It is then acquired in vain.

OT allows for divorce. Jesus took those allowances and closed them and completed and fulfilled that law stating it never was to be. And marriage is a joining of Man and Woman, by God, that cannot be terminated by man. To believe you can still get divorced is to go back to OT law that has been completed and fulfilled by something better.

It is the same to look back to the 4th commandment. The 4th commandment is no longer needed and not in effect as Jesus fulfilled and completed it with Love. OT rules. NT Love. They could never save themselves. Every year they killed a goat for blood to pay for sins and the scapegoat was taken and left out in the wilderness. Every year they had to do that.

Now we are saved. By Love. To Love. Saved to Works of Love.

Peace and Blessings

This was very helful. For it is the love of Christ that constrains us.
His love is like a rushing stream of water seeking to carry us off to live unto Him.

It is significant Paul didn't write "the law of God constrains us" but "the love of Christ contrains us."
I just need to see and realize more and more what it meant that He died for me.
That includes His death to redeem me with His blood and His death to terminate all that other than God in me.

For the love of Christ constrains us because we have judged this, that One died for all, therefore all died;
And He died for all that those who live may no longer live to themselves but to Him who died for them and has been raised. (2 Cor. 5:14,15)

 

[Gary K]

Yes. Fullfilled in us by Jesus, through His Love for us and our Love for God and Others.

By paying attention to the 4th Commandment, written for the Jews during OT times, you are placing it before the new wine, the completed, the improved, of Love God and Love others. And Grace is for nothing. It is then acquired in vain.

OT allows for divorce. Jesus took those allowances and closed them and completed and fulfilled that law stating it never was to be. And marriage is a joining of Man and Woman, by God, that cannot be terminated by man. To believe you can still get divorced is to go back to OT law that has been completed and fulfilled by something better.

It is the same to look back to the 4th commandment. The 4th commandment is no longer needed and not in effect as Jesus fulfilled and completed it with Love. OT rules. NT Love. They could never save themselves. Every year they killed a goat for blood to pay for sins and the scapegoat was taken and left out in the wilderness. Every year they had to do that.

Now we are saved. By Love. To Love. Saved to Works of Love.

Peace and Blessings

Where did Jesus tell us He had set aside the 4th commandment? I won't accept anything but plain old scripture. A clear concise scriptural passage setting aside the Sabbath just like you gave for Jesus saying divorce was not allowed, which I agree with btw.

 

[TPop]

Where did Jesus tell us He had set aside the 4th commandment? I won't accept anything but plain old scripture. A clear concise scriptural passage setting aside the Sabbath just like you gave for Jesus saying divorce was not allowed, which I agree with btw.

Jesus never literally said no to all divorce.
But we can read His attitude towards it.

[Mat 19:3-9 KJV] 3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

It is the same with the 10 commandments. Or the 10 Accusers. Constantly Accusing us of sin. Just like Satan does.
They were given to the Jews. As guide rails to show them their sin.

The 10 Commandments are just a litany of accusations against us.

1. You failed.
2. You failed.
3. You failed.
4. You failed.
5. You failed.
6. You failed.
7. You failed.
8. You failed.
9. You failed.
10. You failed.

They were not even given to the Gentiles.
Now, Christians, Jews included if they embrace Jesus as Lord and Savior, have a truly righteous high priest.

[Heb 8:1-6 KJV] 1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore [it is] of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The law was used to accuse us, and it was used by men to keep power and authority. Jesus removed the fear, threat, damnation, and power of accusation that the Law brings upon man. If you are still under the law, you are a victim of the laws accusations, you are not under grace. And Jesus cannot make you white as snow in the Father's eyes.

[Col 2:13-22 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

[Heb 10:1-11 KJV] 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year. 4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

The message is no longer Law, Punishment, Anger, and Sorrow.
The message and relationship is now Love and Love God.

[2Co 13:11, 14 KJV] 11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. ... 14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen.
[Eph 2:4 KJV] 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[Eph 3:19 KJV] 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
[Eph 5:2 KJV] 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
[Eph 6:23 KJV] 23 Peace [be] to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[Col 2:2 KJV] 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
[1Th 1:3 KJV] 3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
[1Th 4:9 KJV] 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
[2Th 3:5 KJV] 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
[1Ti 6:11 KJV] 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
[2Ti 1:7 KJV] 7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
[Tit 3:4 KJV] 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
[Heb 6:10 KJV] 10 For God [is] not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
[Jas 2:5 KJV] 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
[1Pe 2:17 KJV] 17 Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
[1Jo 2:5 KJV] 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[1Jo 3:1, 16-17 KJV] 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. ... 16 Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren. 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
[1Jo 4:7-12, 16, 21 KJV] 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. ... 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. ... 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
[1Jo 5:3 KJV] 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
[2Jo 1:3 KJV] 3 Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
[Jde 1:21 KJV] 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Gary K]

Jesus never literally said no to all divorce.
But we can read His attitude towards it.

[Mat 19:3-9 KJV] 3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

It is the same with the 10 commandments. Or the 10 Accusers. Constantly Accusing us of sin. Just like Satan does.
They were given to the Jews. As guide rails to show them their sin.

The 10 Commandments are just a litany of accusations against us.

1. You failed.
2. You failed.
3. You failed.
4. You failed.
5. You failed.
6. You failed.
7. You failed.
8. You failed.
9. You failed.
10. You failed.

They were not even given to the Gentiles.
Now, Christians, Jews included if they embrace Jesus as Lord and Savior, have a truly righteous high priest.

[Heb 8:1-6 KJV] 1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore [it is] of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The law was used to accuse us, and it was used by men to keep power and authority. Jesus removed the fear, threat, damnation, and power of accusation that the Law brings upon man. If you are still under the law, you are a victim of the laws accusations, you are not under grace. And Jesus cannot make you white as snow in the Father's eyes.

[Col 2:13-22 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

[Heb 10:1-11 KJV] 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year. 4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

The message is no longer Law, Punishment, Anger, and Sorrow.
The message and relationship is now Love and Love God.

[2Co 13:11, 14 KJV] 11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. ... 14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen.
[Eph 2:4 KJV] 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[Eph 3:19 KJV] 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
[Eph 5:2 KJV] 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
[Eph 6:23 KJV] 23 Peace [be] to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[Col 2:2 KJV] 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
[1Th 1:3 KJV] 3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
[1Th 4:9 KJV] 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
[2Th 3:5 KJV] 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
[1Ti 6:11 KJV] 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
[2Ti 1:7 KJV] 7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
[Tit 3:4 KJV] 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
[Heb 6:10 KJV] 10 For God [is] not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
[Jas 2:5 KJV] 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
[1Pe 2:17 KJV] 17 Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
[1Jo 2:5 KJV] 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[1Jo 3:1, 16-17 KJV] 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. ... 16 Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren. 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
[1Jo 4:7-12, 16, 21 KJV] 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. ... 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. ... 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
[1Jo 5:3 KJV] 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
[2Jo 1:3 KJV] 3 Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
[Jde 1:21 KJV] 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Peace and Blessings

So Jesus never said don't keep the Sabbath.

And the NC focuses on knowing God.

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This parallels exactly what Jesus prayed in John 17:3

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And Paul tells us in Galatians 5 that the fruit of the Spirit enables to keep God's law.

Galatians 5: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This passage covers both definitions of sin found it the Bible; transgression of the law and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Having a close personal relationship with God is life eternal and Paul tells us God enables us to keep the 10 commandments as the fruit of the Spirit violates no law.

It looks to me like God has all bases covered. He's left nothing out in His attempt to save us.

 

[TPop]

And Paul tells us in Galatians 5 that the fruit of the Spirit enables to keep God's law.

Galatians 5: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This passage covers both definitions of sin found it the Bible; transgression of the law and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Having a close personal relationship with God is life eternal and Paul tells us God enables us to keep the 10 commandments as the fruit of the Spirit violates no law.

It looks to me like God has all bases covered. He's left nothing out in His attempt to save us.

So what is the Sabbath? First day? Seventh day? If you get it wrong, then what?

The Fruit of the Spirit is not about sin or the law. The fruit is about the spirit. It does not need the reflection of the Law back upon it. The Fruit of the Spirit is a cluster, which every believer can manifest. Not manifest because there is also law. But manifest because that is what the Spirit brings. Which no one had in the OT and now had in the NT.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Bob S]

So Jesus never said don't keep the Sabbath.

Jesus didn't need to. He did away with the complete old covenant at Calvary. The Sabbath command was part of the old covenant. We have a better covenant not with an earthly priest, Jesus is our High Priest, and the writer of Hebrews tells us when there is change in the priesthood there is also change in the Law.

And Paul tells us in Galatians 5 that the fruit of the Spirit enables to keep God's law.

It does???? where???? 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law (Torah)

Having a close personal relationship with God is life eternal and Paul tells us God enables us to keep the 10 commandments as the fruit of the Spirit violates no law.

How is that working for you?

It looks to me like God has all bases covered. He's left nothing out in His attempt to save us.

Amen!

 

[Gary K]

So what is the Sabbath? First day? Seventh day? If you get it wrong, then what?

The Fruit of the Spirit is not about sin or the law. The fruit is about the spirit. It does not need the reflection of the Law back upon it. The Fruit of the Spirit is a cluster, which every believer can manifest. Not manifest because there is also law. But manifest because that is what the Spirit brings. Which no one had in the OT and now had in the NT.

Peace and Blessings

How can we get it wrong when the Comforter was sent to lead us into all truth? Seems to me if we do we aren't listening to the Spirit.

So you don't believe Paul? There is nothing in that passage that indicates what you assert.

 

[Gary K]

Jesus didn't need to. He did away with the complete old covenant at Calvary. The Sabbath command was part of the old covenant. We have a better covenant not with an earthly priest, Jesus is our High Priest, and the writer of Hebrews tells us when there is change in the priesthood there is also change in the Law.

It does???? where???? 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law (Torah)

How is that working for you?

Amen!

Let's take a look at the NC.

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Everyone, including myself, has been focusing on the legal aspect of the NC. I want to focus on the last verse. The NC was given so that everyone under the NC would know God. That is salvation.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So it is life eternal to personally know God. If we do the following won't happen to us.

Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Do we have a strong relationship with God? Do we know God intimately and talk to Him as our friend? If so Jesus will not say to us depart from me you who work iniquity.

That is the purpose of the NC. So can you say I know God very well? He is my friend. Only you know.