Is it good to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass?

[Leaf473]

Even satan worshippers have some code of honor, which could be said to align with "some" of God's Commandments.

Exactly!

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 1:21 - New American Standard Bible

For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

There are a lot of religious men who as Paul teaches, profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Right again!

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 17:29 - New American Standard Bible

Therefore, since we are the descendants of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by human skill and thought.

www.biblegateway.com

The guys on the areopagus had a moral sense, but they weren't using it.

Using that same moral sense, can you look at the op and say whether that mowing is good?

 

[Divide]

Six days a week God said we shall do all thy works and labors Exodus 20:9. We love God by keeping His commandments that includes the Sabbath commandment, which God said to keep the Sabbath day holy Exodus 20:8 We can love neighbor by helping them with their lawn on the 6 other days God gave us to do thy work. When Jesus said it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath the examples were not leaving an animal in a ditch on the Sabbath-that was an emergency, healing people - helping people who are sick- not breaking the Sabbath, never was there an example of hard labor on the Sabbath. The purpose of the Sabbath is to have communion with God and to honor Him on His holy day Isaiah 58:13. If a neighbor falls and needs to be taken to the hospital on the Sabbath, not breaking the Sabbath. If a neighbor needs help with their lawn and asks on the Sabbath we can be a good witness (doing good) and invite them to church with us on the Sabbath and offer to mow their lawn once Sabbath ends.

I agree with every word you wrote. My problem came when I remembered Romans 14. Some people will esteem a day more than another will. A man may keep the sabbath his entire life I think the best it might get him over those who don't keep the sabbath, is more rewards in Heaven?

The man who does not hold to keeping the sabbath will still be in Heaven. I personally believe that, if God had His way, the entire earth would observe the Sabbath. I expect that when we all go to heaven that the Sabbath will still be kept? Speculation absolutely for now, but I feel the probability of it. Romans 14 was God given truth also, and God knew the differences in culture and nations and all that, that all can't keep the sabbath, they were never taught.

Besides, the sabbath isn't about getting a day off. It's more about giving a day to God. So if your work schedule makes you observe your sabbath on say, Thursday, and you do do it! Then this man has a reward coming also. Prolly just as big as the Saturday sabbath keeper!

Or so it seems to me.

 

[Divide]

But Christ did not say "any good act you can think of is appropriate for the Sabbath" -- thank God.

I think he seriously implyed it! He siad when you gave that scruffy bum a cup of water, you gave me that cup of water! So who would not give the Lord a cup of water on the Sabbath?

Remember! The Sabbath was not made for man, but man was made for the sabbath! The Sabbath is not a Rule! It is a gift. And so anything done in Love towards anyone can be done on the sabbath because God would do the same thing. Walk in Love.

So your disabled widow neighbor asks you one day, can you cut my grass for me this Saturday???
Who would dare to turn this nice lady who needs help down and say, sorry mamm that's my sabbath, too bad???? Lol!! Such a person does not exist!

Man was made for the sabbath. Man was made for Love. The answer is not difficult.

(I am Astonished that anyone voted "No"!!!)

 

[Divide]

What greater emergency is the lost? Cutting grass is not cutting grass, it's a mechanism to share the gospel

I like your Attitude!!

 

[Leaf473]

But the Sabbath of God, that is unique to Him. This is what the Christ, the Holy One of Israel said about His Sabbath, before becoming a man.

Ez. 20: 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Yes, God revealed in writing that the seventh day is holy. There's no obvious moral aspect to it. Paul doesn't tell the Athenians that they ought not to have thought that the seventh day was like the 6th day.

 

[Leaf473]

I see you mowing some random widow's lawn or building a deck, or grilling pork chops on God's Holy Sabbath, what does that show me? Only that you have no respect for God's instruction in righteousness.

Does it matter? It mattered enough for the Christ to have these examples written for us and to inspire Paul to write, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Well, it's not a random widow, it's a disabled widow.

Of course, if that widow is sitting on 10 million in the bank, then mowing her lawn isn't such a big deal.

But suppose she's poor and is about to receive a citation from the code enforcement people. Suppose this widow doesn't live near me, and just after sunset I'm flying across the country.

You could think that I have no respect for God's instruction in righteousness, or you could think that I'm paying attention to the whole counsel of God

 

[Leaf473]

No. I don't agree that God wrote His Laws on the hearts men who never heard about Him or His Son. And Paul isn't preaching that. You are, but Paul wasn't.

Rom. 10: 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I agree that faith comes by hearing the word of God.

But humans who don't have the written word of God are able to "do by nature the things contained in the law."

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2:14-15 - King James Version

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[HIM]

I like your Attitude!!

So does the world and their lord.

 

[Leaf473]

No. I don't agree that God wrote His Laws on the hearts men who never heard about Him or His Son. And Paul isn't preaching that. You are, but Paul wasn't.

Rom. 10: 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 14:17 - King James Version

Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

www.biblegateway.com

God didn't leave himself without witness, they could see that God did good.

But is there a witness about the seventh day that the Lycaonians would have seen?

 

[Leaf473]

The Gentiles didn't have God's Laws, they were given to the Jews. But Gentiles heard about God and sought Him out since early on in the Law and Prophets and Rehab shows us.

Matt. 15: 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 15: 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Those are all examples of gentiles who lived on the fringes of the Jewish world.

 

[Leaf473]

Apparently, God forgot to write His Laws on these Gentile's heart. In your religion, is this because they "turned to God"?


Rom. 6: 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? This is Paul's instruction to both Jew and Gentile.

No, when people go against their inherent moral sense, they know that they are doing wrong. They usually just try to ignore their conscience until it gets softer

 

[Leaf473]

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Do you believe this is only speaking to men of a certain DNA, or all men?

In that particular case, he's probably talking to Jews.

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 13:1 - King James Version

There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 13:6 - King James Version

He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

www.biblegateway.com

But this is talking about all men

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 17:30-31 - King James Version

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

It is foolishness to preach that God writes His Laws on men's heart that are not seeking Him or have not heard of Him. The Gentiles didn't have God's Law, but they sure knew where to find it, and there were those believed, even though they were not given the Oracles of God, but heard about Him through the Jews.

Are you saying the people in North or South America knew about the Jews?

"For instance, Iroquois longhouse elders speak frequently about the Creator’s “Original Instructions” to human beings, using male gender references and attributing to this divinity not only the planning and organizing of creation but qualities of goodness, wisdom, and perfection that are reminiscent of the Christian deity."

Native American religions | History, Beliefs, Tribes, Culture, & Facts

Native American religions, religious beliefs and sacramental practices of the indigenous peoples of North and South America. Until the 1950s it was commonly assumed that the religions of the surviving Native Americans were little more than curious anachronisms, dying remnants of humankind’s...

www.britannica.com

 

[Leaf473]

The religious traditions of men have not changed much as Prophesied, "There is no new thing under the sun".

Mark 7: 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

When I look around, I see a world full of religions who have created huge religious businesses, their own high days, their own image of God in the likeness of some random long haired men's hair shampoo model. I see God's Judgments despised and rejected, His sabbaths polluted and ignored. His Feasts mocked and forgotten.

And "many" who come in His Name, who preach that Jesus is truly the Christ, do and preach all these things in Christ's Name. It seems Jesus saw all this coming.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

It seems this is no different than the religions of Ezekiel's Time.

Ez. 20: 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Well, that approach would undermine the very scriptures you want to use.

But again, that's a topic for a different thread

Paul said these were written as example for us, so we wouldn't be convinced to follow the same path of rebellion and disobedience they followed.

That's right, we don't want to be like the Israelites in the wilderness

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 10:11 - King James Version

Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

In all due respect. God tells me how to Love and Honor Him, and how to Love and honor one another. You imply that rejecting God's judgments or instructions so men can practice their religious traditions is somehow "moral". Or that God punishing men for doing on His sabbath what they could have done in the 6 days He gave them, is also somehow immoral.

No, I'm not implying either of those things

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5:22 - King James Version

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

I look at God differently having trusted Him in His instruction. I highly recommend it, but there is a cost.

I know what you're saying I've had the same experience, following the whole counsel of God.

Back to mowing the disabled widow's lawn: do you agree there is an obvious moral aspect to it?

 

[Leaf473]

In your religion this is clearly so. To a child it would be the same, until someone of a higher power told them differently. We disagree because you don't believe God is worthy to instruct you regarding the week HE created. And to anyone before knowing God, one day is no different than another. But to God, that just isn't so. At least according the God of the Bible. You can read it for yourself, it's the "Faith" part that you seem to be the issue.

Actually, "until someone of a higher power told them differently" is the point I'm making. There is no obvious moral difference between the seventh day and the other days; someone has to tell you.

I believe/have faith that God has the authority to declare the 7th day holy. But that's not the last thing he said on the subject

 

[Leaf473]

Of course you imply by this post that you are wiser than God, and certainly you imply that God didn't know what HE was doing when HE created His Week or His Sabbaths for men.

Me, I don't believe I am wiser than God, nor do I qualify to judge Him or His Holy Instructions.

You are free to do so however, I would caution a brother against such a choice.

You don't accept a spherical rotating Earth?

 

[Leaf473]

Hey, mow her lawn. Obedience to God must come from the heart in Faith. I don't believe teaching a widow to reject God's Sabbaths, just because you have, is "Good" for the Widow. But you are obviously persuaded otherwise. Jesus speaks about this as well.

"And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

We would want to teach her the whole counsel of God, which is more than "you shall do no work..."

It's also possible she would teach us something

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 13:2 - King James Version

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

www.biblegateway.com