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Featured Is it correct to say, "One aspect of the Bible is that it is like a rule book"?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    If I believed you were truly open to the truth then I would put in the effort to plainly demonstrate it from Scripture. But I know that you cannot hear it so I don't care to put in the effort. The truth is not at all hidden. It is plainly taught in Scripture. But a veil lies over your heart that will not be removed until you turn to the Lord Jesus Christ as a sinner in need of his saving grace.
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Well, I believe you are not explaining it because this secret teaching you speak cannot stand in light of the truth of God’s Word. It must be kept in secret among a special club of believers in Jesus. Surely you do not want to lose any club members. So lets keep it a secret, right? Again, if you teach that a person can sin and still be saved on some level, this plainly teaching that God's grace is a license for immorality on some level. Your friend on this thread already said he is sinner and not a saint saved by God's grace. You don't seem to be correcting him. So yes. What you believe is not in line with basic morality or the goodness of God that is taught in God's Word. Titus 2:11-12 says the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously in this present world. Hebrews 5:9 says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation unto all who obey HIm. 1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light as He (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light is loving your brother (See 1 John 2:9-10). But the plain reading of these passages conflicts with your belief. So they must be distored or changed or worse yet... .they must go ignored altogether.

    1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

    How can one say that they can be a sinner saved by God's grace and yet also obey 1 John 3:10? The simple answer is that they cannot. They are merely preaching a double message.
     
  3. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    ^ This is utterly ridiculous.

    And this is why you cannot understand the clear teachings of Scripture. You are blinded by the teachings of demons and distort the Bible to serve a demonic doctrine of salvation by works.
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    There are not paradoxes or contradictions in God's Word. Everything breathes together in perfect harmony. Your lack of being unable to explain the problems in your belief is what is at issue here; And it does not have anything to do with what the Bible plainly says. In your view: Verses have to go ignored. It's why you are not explaining the verses I have put forth to you.

    I also believe that a Christian is to surrender their life to Christ in obedience to Him, but in your view it appears to be optional because you arguing against the verses I have proposed that obedience to certain commands of God do relate to our salvation. Belief in Jesus is a command. Repentance is a command. Not murdering is still a command. Loving God and loving your neighbors are commands. All these commands and more must be kept as a part of the faith and salvation in Christ.
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Thank you for the false accusation. I will rejoice in GOD my Savior.
    I believe we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace.
    I also believe God is the One who ultimately does the works through me when I surrender to Him and His Word. So I cannot boast or take any credit for any good work in my life that is a part of the salvation process. Good works is merely the fruit or the proof in the pudding that a believer is abiding in Christ (Who is the source of our salvation). For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son, does not have life (1 John 5:12).

    Many Calvinists see even Eternal Security proponents who deny Calvin's Unconditional Election as a works based plan of salvation. They think that coming to God and seeking His forgiveness or believing in Him by our own power would be a work and would thus be salvation by works. Granted, this would not be all Calvinists, but there are many who do believe this.

    This is the problem with a gospel that makes for an allowance for sin (By the fact that some of them will say that they are "sinners saved by God's grace.").

    Ask yourself. Would the devil want you to sin or would he want you to do that is righteous?
    So I would say any doctrine or belief that condones sin is from the devil because the devil is the one who wants you to sin and it is not God who wants you to sin or to justify sin on some level.
     
  6. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    I agree. And no Reformed teacher has ever condoned sin. Recognizing that we remain sinners after conversion is not a condoning of sin or a license to sin. It rather should humble us to depend upon our savior every day to deliver us from our sins of which we are only dimly aware.

    Your doctrine is a doctrine of demons because you minimize or ignore the hidden sin that lurks beneath the surface of your behavior - the pernicious sin in your heart which is most often unknown to you. You think that because you've seen the tip of the iceberg in your behavior that you've seen all there is to see of your sin. You believe that if you can white wash your behavior then you can be free of sin. This is a radical diminishing of the demands of God's law - which reach beyond external behavior to the thoughts and intentions of the heart. At the same time it is a radical denial of your own sin.

    This is a demonic doctrine because the devil does not want you to recognize or understand your sin and does not want you to live as a repentant, dependent, humble person. He would rather you be a self-righteous, externally righteous Pharisee who will be condemned to hell on the last day.
     
  7. Gr8Grace

    Gr8Grace Well-Known Member

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    2 Cor 11~~14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
     
  8. Gr8Grace

    Gr8Grace Well-Known Member

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    He has you hook,line and sinker if thats what you think satan is up to. Satan is vitally interested in you being "good"...........Independent of Gods plan.

    Satan is trying to counterfeit God. Make this place work. World peace. Can't we all just get along?......Satan does more face palms than anything else when we sin, because he can't control us and our sin nature.
     
  9. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It does contain God's "rules", otherwise known as Commandments, and has a lot to say about them. However, it also covers many other topics not directly connected to rules.
     
  10. Toro

    Toro Oh, Hello!

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    The Bible is a book of God's promises and the testiments to the fulfillment of those promises.

    Gods "rules" (law) are written on the hearts of His people.

    If the Bible were all about rules and nothing more than reading it would be unnecessary as it would be nothing more than redundancy of that which has already been written on our hearts.
     
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  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    There are hundreds of commands in the New Testament. Are you saying that you automatically are doing all of these commands already? Are you rejoicing when others accuse you falsely? (See: Matthew 5:11-12). Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord's commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). What about Acts of the Apostles 23:5? It says we are not speak evil of the ruler of the people. Is that something you would just automatically know? What about the commandment to be baptized? Is that something you would just automatically know? What about the Lord's supper? Is that just something you would automatically know? In other words, if you did a study on the commands in the New Testament, you would learn that they are not just all automatically written in your heart. You do actually have to study and learn what the New Testament commands are.
     
  12. Toro

    Toro Oh, Hello!

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  13. Swan7

    Swan7 Made in the image of His Grace Supporter

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    I'm afraid you are missing the point. Do you only read the Bible face value? Or do you allow the Holy Spirit to teach you while you read. Do you ask God questions with His Word?
    You mentioned Acts, what about Romans as well and what Paul explains there about being Spirit led; and not going back to the law as the Israelites once wanted to go back to Egypt? What about the Jews in Jesus time, some became Messianic Jews, thus, no longer of the law but of the Spirit of Christ?

    Too many people want to go back to the law that Christ finished at the cross. Not saying that we should do as we please, of course not! But God wrote His law on our heart - that we would DO as He changes our heart. We aren't perfect, but this is exactly why Jesus says there's nothing we can do apart from Him.

    It's time to start looking at the bigger picture here. Look at His Word as a whole instead of parts. :yellowheart:
     
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  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The Scriptures are inspired by the Spirit. So the commandments we read about in the New Testament would come from the Spirit.
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    No, you are missing the point I made. There are hundreds of commands in the New Testament. So again, are you saying that these laws are written in your heart whereby you automatically do them? Surely not. So what you say is not true. Oh, and yes. I don't deny we need prayer to understand God's Word. No doubt about it. The thing is people can say that, but the true test between the person who is praying for understanding on God's Word to fit a belief they want to see and the person who genuinely is seeking the truth are two different things. Most do not read God's Word with their heart. Most today justify sin in some way and they turn off their moral compass. I know they also pray for understanding, too. But do they get it if they are justifying sin or sinful beliefs? See John 9:31. Also see: 1 Timothy 6:3-4 and James 4:6, too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Perseverance of the Saints and or Once Saved Always Saved leads people into unrepentant sin with the thinking they are saved on some level. They may even think they are being humble by the fact that they know they will sin again soon and yet they confess it to God. Somehow they think the Parable of the Tax Collector is an every day or every week kind of thing (even when the Parable does not say such a thing). However, 1 Timothy 6:3-4 also talks about how if do not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, we are proud and we know nothing. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Admitting sin and not stopping in one's sin is not a humble thing. Would a wife consider her husband humble if he admitted that he was cheating on her and yet he said to her that he just did not think he had any power to stop? Surely not. She would most likely leave him for being unfaithful. No doubt, many Calvinists may think I am weak for appealing to emotion by this example. If the Bible says it is true from their Calvinistic view or slant, then it is true and no appeal to any emotional point will get through. God's Word says it and emotions are just a form of weakness.

    What you are not getting is that we are to understand with our heart as a part of being converted. The heart is an emotional thing.

    "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with theirears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (Matthew 13:15).

    "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Corinthians 7:10).

    Paul reveals his heart to us about those who he thinks are enemies of the cross.

    "For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:" (Philippians 3:18).

    Paul was weeping over those who were enemies of the cross.
    He loved them.

    Jesus says,
    44 "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:44-45).

    "But as he came closer to Jerusalem and saw the city ahead, he [Jesus] began to weep." (Luke 19:41).

    “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me." (Matthew 23:37).

    Jesus desired His people (the Jews) to be saved, but they wouldn't allow Jesus into their lives so that they could be saved.

    The Jews ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy.

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23:23).

    "But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Luke 11:42).

    Anyways, I hope what I have shown by the Scriptures here is that God has a heart and He loves us and He desires us to be conformed to His image and not to the image of the old man or our old life. We have to love. It is not optional, my friend. So I encourage you to seek these matters out more with the Lord within His Word by prayer.

    In any event, I am wishing you nothing but good things to you from the Lord Jesus Christ. May you please be well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  17. watchman 2

    watchman 2 Active Member

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    Really ???
    There is a paradoxical truth that we all must accept going out the gate of Christianity. Christ was 100% God and 100% man at the same time, 100% of the time.

    Learning about the paradoxical truths of God begin with a 6 month study at a Stanford University level of learning.
     
  18. watchman 2

    watchman 2 Active Member

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    Your obedience theology is like sending Ford motor credit a car payment, when youve never signed the contract.Ypu can send the payment, but they can't accept it without a signed contract.

    The contract is a daily Surrendered life. Your "obedience" isn't applicable because your life is nolonger yours . Light going on yet?
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Salvation is a free gift, but like all free gifts in life, those gifts come with works of responsibility in order to keep or maintain that gift. Rick can receive a car as a free gift, but if he runs red lights, hits pedestrians, and always drives smash drunk, he is not going to keep his free gift for too long. He could wrap that gift around telephone pole or have it taken away from him by his misconduct.

    In fact, this example illustrates the difference between working at a job to earn something vs. having a free gift and doing works of ressponsibility. Romans 4 talks about Works ALONE Salvationism. It is talking about salvation purely from a works alone perspective (without God's grace). Trading dollars for hours without any gift involved.
     
  20. watchman 2

    watchman 2 Active Member

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    God's Grace is the free gift. We receive that free gift by Faith, or in application, faithing or pisteuo . Pisteuo is a" personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT. Your understanding eliminates pisteuo from the NT all together.

    So in your understanding, we receive the Spirit of Christ by obedience. We need Christs obedience, not our own.
    There are no paradoxical truths.
    And you eliminate the most important word in the scriptures .

    I'll be addressing this after Christmas. I encourage you to follow the thread .
     
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