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Jailer~~What must I do to be saved?According to Titus 2:11-12, God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously in this present world. Hebrews 5:9 says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to inherit eternal life is to love God (with some included details) and to love your neighbor (See Luke 10:25-28). Not helping the poor in this life can lead a believer to be cast into everlasting fire (See Matthew 25:31-46). Looking upon a woman in lust can cause a person's body to be cast bodily into hell fire (See Matthew 5:29-31). Not loving your brother is the equivalent of being like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (See 1 John 3:15). Not preaching the gospel is a salvation in this life is a salvation issue (See Luke 9:62). 1 John 3:10 says that he that does not righteousness is not of God. John 8:47 says he that is of God hears (obeys) God's Word (Also see James 1:21-27). Not forgiving another means you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15). Paul says,
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).
So in Galatians 3:24, what does Paul mean by his statement that the Law is a school master that brings us unto Christ? Was Paul talking about all forms of Law? Was Paul talking about how we do not need to obey the commands of Jesus as a part of everlasting life as Jesus said?
Paul was referring to the 613 laws as a whole (not individual laws) or the entirety of the old contract, i.e. the Law of Moses.
16 "That is how it is with the promises God made to Abraham and his descendant.The promises were not made to many descendants, but only to one, and that one is Christ.
17 What I am saying is that the Law cannot change or cancel God’s promise that was made 430 years before the Law was given." (Galatians 3:16-17) (CEV).
In other words, the promise made to Abraham about his descendants as being as numerous as the stars (Which is only possible by Jesus Christ, the "seed") came 430 years before the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses does not undo the previous promise made to Abraham. So the context here in Galatians 3:24 is the whole of the Law of Moses (i.e. the entirety of that whole covenant or contract; All 613 laws as a covenant given to Israel). Verse 25 says, "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:25). Does this mean that there was no faith in the Old Testament or Old Covenant? No. Romans 4:9 says, "...faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness." So this means that Galatians 3:25 is talking about "faith in Jesus Christ as a part of the New Covenant or New Testament" (that went into effect officially with his death upon the cross). The Law (i.e. the Old Law) was a school master to bring those unto faith in Christ during His earthly ministry and during the time His followers spread the good news of the gospel.
Paul was fighting against the heresy of Law Alone Salvationism that did not include God's grace. People were trying to be circumcised FIRST in order to say that they were saved. They thought they had to go back and obey ALL of the laws of the Torah to be saved (When that was a covenant or contract that was no longer binding anymore as a whole).
We see that this problem was addressed at the Jerusalem council. Please slowly and carefully read these verses:
- Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
- Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”................................................................................................................................................................
- Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
Paul also addressed this problem, as well:
- Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
- Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
- Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
- Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”
- 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 says, 18 For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now. (NLT) 19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.” (NASB)
- Romans 2:28-29 says, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
- Romans 3:1 says, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?”
- Romans 4:9-12 says, ”9 “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”
- Acts of the Apostles 21:21 says, “And they are informed of you, that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.”
So we can conclude that Paul was against going back to the whole of the Old Testament Law of Moses (and not individual moral laws) and he was against "Circumcision Salvationism." Paul was fighting against "Law Alone Salvationism." For if you say that you are saved FIRST by circumcision, then the foundation of your faith is not by coming to Jesus Christ it would be circumcision or Law Alone. This was not even a form of salvation even under the OT. Men were always saved by faith in the Messiah and then obedience to His commands followed from that point after. So yeah; You are taking Galatians 3:24 out of context to defend a sin and still be saved type belief. Salvation as taught by Free Grace teachers is not biblical. Salvation has always been "Faith + works of faith." Just read Hebrews 11. Works of faith had always followed a person having faith in God. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
Your right Jason, there is an action that must be taken towards God to start the Salvation journey. But it's not Obedience.
Jailer~~What must I do to be saved?
Paul~~Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jailer~~What must I do to be saved?
Jason~~There is not enough free storage space on the internet to tell you the way.
As a matter of fact, I say the majority of believers are living like satan. They have no idea how to live the Christian way of life(darn pastors/teachers) so they revert to self-righteousness or 'acting as servants of righteousness' rather than LIVING the spiritual life.
And.....He said that he gives believers eternal life and they will never perish. So they are still saved.
Like I said. There is not enough free space on the internet for you to explain your version of salvation. It's more like evolution rather than salvation.That is where salvation starts. Believing in Jesus as one's Savior. When they learn more about their Savior, they are to also believe in the things that Jesus commanded them to do, too. Jesus said things like if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). This is another aspect of part of Jesus that you have to believe in. This is the type of Jesus you have to believe and trust in. Believing in Jesus is more than just believing in His person alone for salvation but it is also believing in everything He taught, too. Otherwise we are making up our own version of Jesus. The teachings of Christ go hand in hand with who is as a person.
Jason I think you and the OSAS folks have a common misunderstanding of each other as we humans always seem to do. OSAS believers do not believe you can get saved and then go out and live like the devil and still go to heaven. There is commonality in your beliefs. It's not one or the other. It's both. The Bible teaches both thoughts. We as believers should be able to put the together, but we struggle with that.
So, while the Bible teaches that we are sealed to the day of redemption we are also told by Jesus himself that not all who say Lord Lord will enter the kingdom. Is it one or the other? No it's both.
I know you believe the Bible does not contradict itself. And you are correct!
OSAS folks often have difficulty with really explaining their thoughts on the matter. I have yet to find one that believes you can truly be saved and go out and live a sinful lifestyle.
Like I said. There is not enough free space on the internet for you to explain your version of salvation. It's more like evolution rather than salvation.
What you just said in your post is a double message.
#1. On the one hand, you condemn various sinful practices of churches as if to suggest they may not be saved, and you defend righteous living as a part of salvation;
#2. Yet, on the other hand, you say: "We are sinners saved by God's grace."
Nice try. Iniquity is anything done apart from THE faith and being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.This is not what we read what happened to those believers who did good works and yet they worked iniquity (sin). Jesus told certain believers to depart from him for they worked lawlessness or sin (iniquity) (See Matthew 7:23).
That may be a by-product of discipline. But the sole purpose of discipline is to get the believer back on track and in His will again.
And another aspect of our sin nature is EVIL. Or......self-justification/self-righteousness/human good. Something the loss of salvation crowd always overlooks.
That is so simple to do........Get back in fellowship. Sin overcome!
When I talk with the loss of salvation crowd it is impossible to show them that they are operating from the self-righteous side of their flesh and are quenching the Spirit with human good.....arguably they are in a worse spot than the believer who is stuck in overt sin.
To get believers back into His plan for them and His will.
Here is what the loss of salvation crowd does:
Gods divine plan is for the dog to go outside and poop, but the dog decides to do it it's own way and poops in the cat box and looks at it's master thinking," I did so good!"
Being stuck in their SIN. Singular. The flesh,the sin nature.......the flip side to sinning in the flesh is the flesh is also SELF-RIGHTEOUS.
And I agree, I have seen very very few believers who know how to live the Christian way of life. Most think it is try your level best to stop sinning. And end up living in the self-righteous side of their flesh and their human good.
Jesus Christ says that He is the Only just and righteous judge.I don't believe any Eternal Security proponent is truly capable of obeying the Christian life.
Nice try. Iniquity is anything done apart from THE faith and being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.
Isaiah 64:6~~New American Standard Bible
For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
Matt 7:23 pretty much sums what you seem to be pushing.
That is contradictory to say that. Any action taken towards God is a form of obedience. Especially if one is obeying a command of God. Believing in Jesus is a commandment (1 John 3:23). We are called to obey this command to be saved. We are also called to obey the command of repentance, too (See Acts of the Apostles 17:30). Jesus said to people to repent or they will perish (See Luke 13:3).
It's not an insult. It's the truth. Your plan of salvation can never be laid out in exact detail. It remains open ended and will forever be open ended.You can insult, or you can explain the verses I put forth that refutes your belief.
Jesus Christ says that He is the Only just and righteous judge.
Should the Bible be amended to add your name with Jesus’? Comparable too God, huh
It's paradoxical, all God's deeper truths are paradoxical.
When two people are fighting and one surrenders to the other is that an act of obedience? It's a last resort usually.
And another point . If obedience to God's word is the key to recieving the Spirit of Christ, how would those who lived before the written word was available to the masses obey?
The written word really wasn't available to all the Earth's inhabitants, or the spoken word either. But the Father could draw or call someone, and they could respond with a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. That is what true saving Faith and faithing is, pistis and pisteuo, not obedience.
You do know obedience is only worth anything if it's kept perfectly from the moment one is born till the moment one dies. ? If one commandment is broken, all have been broken . Even in thought, if you even think about breaking a command of God, you failed!
That is why we need to be in Christ, and He in us. It's His obedience flowing through us because of His Spirit residing in us by Faith and faithing. By a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.
If you don't understand how to reconcile these two truths then you have not yet met the first wrung of Christianity.
I wouldn't disagree even to the point where people are blindly obedient to the Bible. Think of the Atheist who believes murder is wrong. It will benefit him as much as a Christian in this life. The issue I took was straying away from the OP. The reason for that is how common non-Christians view the Bible as solely a book of antiquated and out dated instructions.Perhaps, you missed the second part where i wrote ... on how best to live one's life. Both the OT and NT (IMO) are by far the best authoritative literature in the world on how best to live one's life. However, even under grace some people are still rebellious (disobedient) to an authority figure (i.e. the LORD).
However, in order to truly understand and follow the Bible's literary depth (including many allegories and parables) wouldn't you agree it helps if one is obedient, and even better yet if one is born again (1 Samuel 15:22, John 3:5, Titus 3:5).
The above makes about as much sense as a bowl of alphabet soup.If you were to keep reading in Isaiah 64, they are seeking forgiveness of their sins and they are not declaring, I will sin tomorrow and I know I am already forgiven of that. That is what you must force upon the text that is not there.
Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 says a similar thing as Isaiah 64:6. No doubt you think Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 applies to the current present walk of a believer's life with GOD. If so, then what of the talk of before that a Christian can live holy? See the problem or contradiction in your belief?
On top of that: If you believe Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 applies to the Christian's present walk with GOD (showing that they are always sinner), then you must also believe Romans 3:11 applies to the Christ's present walk with GOD, too. Lets read verse 11.
"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." (Romans 3:11).
So this verse must apply to the current present life of the Christian, too. It is a part of the context. So are you saying that Christians today do not have any understanding and they do not seek after God? This is the problem with your belief. It sets up contradictions in numerous places in the Bible.
They are not believers Jason. And Jesus Told them to depart from Him because he NEVER knew them.Oh, and again, Matthew 7:23 does not prove or support your belief. The believers in that scenario were not told to depart from Jesus because they did not trust in the finished sacrifice of Christ while ignoring their sin. Jesus said to depart from because they worked iniquity or sin.
That's my point. So the Father was only able to call those who that was available to? No, the Father could call anyone on the planet and they could respond with saving Faith by a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . God's words are not the object of Faith and faithing, God Himself is!In the early church, they had the communicated Word of God in audible form and in some cases in written form (not entire Bible, but epistles, etc.).
Here is an illustration or graphic I made not too long ago.
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