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Featured Is faith enough?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by ByTheSpirit, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    So my question doesn't pertain to salvation, but rather the Christian life.

    If a person believes God wants to bless them with some material possession, ministry, or other thing and truly has faith for that item or thing, will they get it if it was never God's intention for them?

    For example, someone wants to be a pastor and has faith to be such even goes to school for it, but God's purpose was something else. Will that person, who is full of faith, be blessed in spite of God's plan?
     
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  2. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    Faith is trust in Gods promises. How can faith be a part of accomplishing ones own intentions over Gods? I don't think it can be. We don't claim what we want in faith. Instead we step out in faith to fulfill what God wants, trusting all along that He will be with us to accomplish what He has asked us to do.
     
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  3. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    We are blessed every moment!
     
  4. Bro. Daniel

    Bro. Daniel Prophet & Psalmist

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    I would believe to a degree using Psalms 37:4 as an example: Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

    But, this depends on their calling as God needs them for His will and divine purpose. His plans have a greater impact than what the wants of others. (James 3:1, Psalms 23:1)

    It's like buying something we wanted so badly only to become disappointed with the results afterwards.

    They will be blessed but possibly not as much as God intended. He can use their wants as training to show them His will has better results. They have a possibility of missing out on many rewards and opportunities laid out for them, not only in this lifetime but the one to come in Heaven as well. He can foretell their future to keep them from certain dangers such as overextending themselves, unequal yoking in relationships, encountering sin etc., as He knows us better than we do to give us a better testimony. (Jeremiah 17:10, Jeremiah 29:11)

    Shalom and blessings In Yahushua's name.

    Philippians 4:20
    Numbers 6:24-26
     
  5. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    I think anyone who wants to be a pastor, should work at it for free, since faith comes from hearing the word of Christ.

    And theirs already more pastors than we need, because everyone wants an easy job, or a small job that pays good and some of them even work other jobs.

    But I've never seen a pastor that's worth listening to much, and if you do it without pay, you might get a reward from God.


    A pastor should have studied the bible many years before becoming one to.

    Hosea chapter 4


    6 my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

    “Because you have rejected knowledge,
    I also reject you as my priests;
    because you have ignored the law of your God,
    I also will ignore your children.
     
  6. Theadorus

    Theadorus Active Member Supporter

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    updating answer
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  7. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    We should have faith in God for what He has done, not what he want Him to do. The Lord is not Santa Claus, no matter what the prosperity gospel conmen say.
     
  8. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    We are told not to test/tempt God...Psalms 78:18 (HCSB) They deliberately tested God, demanding the food they craved. The KJV say by asking for meat for their lusts...since we know that man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. I seems to me that the trick is to learn to accept God's will no matter our desires rather than trying to test/tempt God into doing what we desire since we are still flesh no matter how spiritual we are in this world.

    Just my two cents for what it's worth.
     
  9. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    If a person is determined to become a pastor, goes to school, gets appointed to a church, etc ... they can well be a pastor just because they decided to be. I'm sure there are pastors like that out there, who were never called to be shepherds.

    As for blessings, people often go against God's will in large ways and small. All sin is against God's will. But in His mercy, He often still extends grace even in our imperfect situations to bring people to Him, because that is His ultimate goal. We might see some of those things as "blessings".


    If what you're really asking is something like whether or not wishing for something and deciding to "believe God for it" in any way causes God to go against His will in order to reward our faith, or obligates him to act according to our belief, etc., then no. That's akin to making him a religious genie of sorts.

    But very often our efforts, or perhaps chance or some other source, might mean things happen according to our desires. But God is in no way moved or obligated to supply our desires against His will just because we believe hard enough.
     
  10. Theadorus

    Theadorus Active Member Supporter

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    I'm going to speak on behalf of possessions. But yes, if one truly believe, they will receive it. I made some people uncomfortable when I spoke on this last time, so I'll keep this sort, but you can believe God for finances, or possessions and receive them. My wife and I were believing for a second vehicle and God blessed us with the increase finances to finance one. Before that, my wife and I stood in agreement for a financial raise, and we received it. My kid was believing for a certain My Little Pony character, which she never told us about, and God put it on someone's heart to give her the exact one she wanted. After she got it, she told us that she asked Jesus for it, and that she was very happy for it. God is good! Others can have the same results too, the only requirement is that you believe. But yes, finances were apart of the atonement, so therefore we can believe for them and receive them.
     
  11. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    I have a question for you...what do you tell those who believe with everything they are and still don't receive it...Biblically Paul is the first to come to mind since I am studying the "thorn in the flesh" at the moment but there are others...just as there are people all over this world that pray believing and never receive...what do you tell them? Is their belief not as "good" as yours?
     
  12. Theadorus

    Theadorus Active Member Supporter

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    I'm just curious in what way are you referring to Paul's thorn? Was it a study showing that God doesn't answer all of our prayers?

    I don't claim to be an expert on prayer, but what I do know, I know. And I know God answers my prayers. The reason why my belief can be seen as "better" than others is because I am confidant that God hears me (1 John 5:14-15). I know who I am in Christ, and I know my position as a believer, and I am confidant in it, and I expect to receive what I pray for, no matter what it may be (Mark 11:23-24). I can't say for sure why some don't see the answers to their prayers, but I can tell you that when a lot of people pray, they pray in hope, doubt, and unbelief. They throw prayers our in the air hoping that God will take hold of one of them. They are hoping that God is in a good mood that day, and that he will be willing to answer their prayer that day. Others doubt, and they don't even realize it. They ask God for something, and if they don't see an instant manifestation of their their prayers they say within themselves, "looks like it didn't work" and cancel out that prayer. Or they start off in faith, but then worry whether God will come through for them or not which will also stop that prayer if they are not careful. Another thing is that people doubt God's willingness to answer prayers because they feel like they haven't read the Bible enough, or that they haven't gone to church enough, or because of sin in their life, or maybe because they just haven't done enough good deed. That stuff kills your confidence and you begin to feel unworthy of having your prayers answered, which is why you don't see them answered.

    God told me something very important when it comes to prayer, and that is, "expectation is the key." You need to approach God in boldness (not arrogance), knowing that he wants nothing more than to answer your prayer (John 14:12-14, John 15:16, John 16:23-24). If you approach him in hope, or doubt, or unbelief, then don't expect your prayers to be answered. Jame makes a very bold statement when it comes to petitioning God something in James 1:5-8, where he boldly states that a man who is double minded, or a person who has faith, but also doubts, should not expect to see their prayer answered . Because if you doubt God's willing to answers your prayers, they won't be answered. If you don't believe God will answer your prayers, they won't be answered.

    In all honestly would will tell them to really examine themselves, and be honest with themselves and about their faith (people will say one thing, but in their hearts believe another thing). Ask God for wisdom in the area of prayer. I use to be that way. I would pray a prayer, but then doubt God's willingness to answer it, and guess what, I rarely saw my prayers answered. There were certain areas of my life where I was able to approach God in boldness, but for many others, I had no confidence at all. That's why it's so important to get into the word, and learn about God's promises and what he has already provided. Because how can you doubt in something you already have. If God said it's yours, then how can we doubt it's our then?

    I also want to note that just because some people don't see the promises of God come to pass it doesn't mean that they don't happen (this is especially true in the area of healing). People will make doctrines based off of their experiences rather than what God's word says. God makes it very clear that he wants to answer our prayers, but when people don't experience the answers to those prayers they start to come up with excuses as to why God may not answer some prayers. Or write songs like, "sometimes God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers."

    All I'm saying is to be completely honest with yourself, because it sure isn't God's fault.

    Hope this helps.

    God Bless :)
     
  13. Bro. Daniel

    Bro. Daniel Prophet & Psalmist

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    The thorn in the flesh was a demon God allowed to manifest inside of Paul to remind him whenever he got out of hand with his own arrogance while giving revelations through preaching. You can actually see Paul's arrogance in some of his writings (2 Corinthians 11:23, 2 Corinthians 10:8, 2 Corinthians 11:16-33) just to name a few.

    Verse of the Thorn in Paul's Flesh: (2 Corinthians 12:7)
    And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

    Notice it says with the abundance of revelations he receives, the thorn of the flesh was given to him which is the messenger of Satan (a demon/devil) used to buffet (afflict) him should he exalt himself above measure (put himself above aka arrogance)
     
  14. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    No, faith isn't a kind of magick which we can use to bend reality to get what we want, or to turn God into our personal genie.

    There are obviously times when someone seeks the pastoral office and they really shouldn't have been, rogue clergy who are abusive or end up teaching rank heresy is a good example of who shouldn't have any charge over God's flock; but that's why it is the Church that calls and ordains, and the Church which disciplines her servants when they go off the deep end. If one believes they have a calling to that vocation, they have a responsibility: "to whom much is given much is required", and if they squander it then there are repercussions. And we can apply this to other areas, those who have been fortunate in this life and have acquired wealth and/or possessions are, if they call themselves Christian, called to use these gifts for the good of others, because "to whom much is given much is required"; to be rich is not sin, to serve mammon is sin, and the one who withholds their hand from the poor, the hungry, the widow, and the orphan will be judged harshly on the Day of Judgment, "I was hungry ... I was thirsty ... I was naked ... I was a stranger".

    Faith isn't magick.

    God has called us to be a blessing to others, and if we regard ourselves blessed because we have then it is only in order that we might bless others; and if we do not then we rob God, we rob the poor, and we invite Judgment upon ourselves.

    Whatever we have, and wherever we find ourselves, is to be for the glory of God and in love and serve to our neighbor created in the image of God. Every vocation is ministry.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  15. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Believers ask God for revelation in obedience to Scripture:

    Matthew 6:11
    11'Give us this day our daily bread.:


    God will give revelation, Spirit explained teachings:

    Matthew 7:10
    10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

    Luke 11:13
    So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"

    Acts 2:17
    17Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.


    Of course you should have a way to check if the explanation is from God or if it's from too much pizza the night before:

    Hebrews 10:25
    25Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

    1 Corinthians 14:26
    26What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

    1 John 4:1
    1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    1 Corinthians 3:15
    15If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

    Jeremiah 23:25-29
    25“I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, ‘I had a dream! I had a dream!’ 26How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? 27They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their ancestors forgot my name through Baal worship. 28Let the prophet who has a dream recount the dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?” declares the Lord. 29“Is not my word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?


    No mention of pastors deciding what the truth is in the texts.
     
  16. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    actually the study is about the schemes of Satan and where Satan gave Paul the thorn Paul did plead with God three times for it to be removed but God refused to remove it because the thorn kept Paul humble according to the biblical account. But that brings up another question....what about the person who prays for and believes for something that is a sin. According to the teaching about ask and believe and it is yours, God would then be giving the person something that is not only sinful but that would draw the person away from God.

    Here then is the point. If you want to claim faith alone or belief whichever word you prefer and it is our there are many people who pray for covetous things which God says is sin and not according to His will and plan. How do you reconcile those things? I have yet to hear a good answer for this from the teaching presented.
    none of the things you mentioned were included in the question....so let's ask the same question in yet another way. You do believe that Christ always prayed in belief I assume. Is that a fair assumption? If so then why when He prayed in the garden for "this cup to pass from me" did God still allow the suffering and death of the Christ? He prayed in faith believing that anything He asked was His and yet God said, "I want you to endure what is set before you"...which of the above did Christ fail to live in according to your assertions?
    So going back to Jesus prayer in the garden...your claim is that Jesus was wrong in His prayer because He put God's will over His own?
    Amen to God's promises...one of my pet peeves is people who don't simply rest in the promises of God but that is a different matter and question than the one I am asking you, so back to the question. And yes it is a question about what you believe and nothing more or less...I personally have found time and time again that the prayers I pray that don't get answered as I expect are because I didn't understand God's purpose and plan for the thing and eventually God's plan is revealed and I am thankful that He answered as He did and not as I wanted.
    Honesty I also get....in fact, scripture tells us to examine ourselves with sober mind. Amen...but this still doesn't answer the question I am asking.

    Let me tell you a story. At 6 years old my home situation was so out of control I was looking for a way to kill myself. Long story short I prayed for my situation to change but instead of it changing God revealed Himself to me and I came to Christ and more so at the current moment in time I am able to encourage another believer to endure till God delivers just as scripture says to do. If God had changed my situation as per a child's faith I would be willing to bet that I would not be a believer today and I am confident I couldn't help this person to grow in Christ. In fact, these type of struggles are what make our testimony valid to most of the world. Why should God take away my testimony simply because I asked Him to when if I endure many might be reached with the gospel? See, God's will and purpose should always come above our own which is the lesson Christ taught in the garden prayer...so again I ask the same question yet a different way...where is God's will above our own will in the doctrine you are presenting? or do you really think that our will is always above God's will when we pray in faith as you seem to be saying?
     
  17. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    which is exactly why I asked the question...Paul still prayed for the thorn to be gone but God's will and purpose was greater because it brought about humility. When we proclaim that all we ask for in faith believing is ours we miss God's purpose and will and the good that He wants for us when we allow His will to trump our will and lack of doubting. See, that is why I asked the question of the teaching presented....
     
  18. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Amen! Well said. In regards to becoming a pastor, in Romans 12:3, we read - For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

    1 Corinthians 12:9 - to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit.

    God has granted a differing measure of faith to His children. I don't see this as faith that all Christians have in Christ, since Paul implies that some in the body have it and others don't. I see it as a special endowment of faith to accomplish certain tasks in ministry.

    Jesus Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ (Ephesians 4:11-12). It is all about what God wants and what He asks us to do. :oldthumbsup:
     
  19. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    The key as I see it is the last sentence you write here..."It is all about what God wants and what He asks us to do." Amen
     
  20. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    Well I agree, but I am asking in reference to the teaching that if one just has enough faith "anything is possible" even that which may not be God's intention for that individual.
     
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