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Is faith enough?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by ByTheSpirit, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † CF Senior Ambassador Supporter

    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Something along these lines? ;)


    Sorry, I could not resist. :D
  2. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

    It is God's intention to give us the desires of our hearts.
    Regarding ministry, we are told to earnestly desire the greater gifts - in which those associated with "pastoring" in general, like prophesying and preaching, would obviously be included.
    "Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him." Mark 11:23
    "Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart." Ps.37:4

    "You do not have because you do not ask." James 4:2
    I agree.

    Assuming one is tithing etc. and free toward others with their possessions there is no reason God would not answer a prayer for finances.

    "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows." Malachi 3:10

    Of course there are exceptions to answered prayer and the Lord lays most of them out for us in scripture. The Lord is clear that there are reasons why prayers for finances are sometimes not answered - for instance:

    "You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures." James 4:3

    But just because there are exceptions and we need to examine whether we fall into those exceptional categories in our relationship with God and with others - does not eliminate the promises of God.

    One thing that has always struck me about healing for instance (which is clearly included int the accomplishments of Christ's atonement) - is how people of little faith immediately head toward the exceptional cases to (apparently) cover their lack of faith in God's Word.

    The famous "thorn" in Paul's flesh is a prime example of this kind of thing (and it has nothing to do with physical healing for Paul in the first place).

    When they do such things it undermines the promises of the scriptures. People then doubt that such things as healing is for them. As a result, because of their lack of faith in the Word, they are not able to claim the promises the scriptures make to them.

    "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17
  3. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    this makes it sound like you believe that spiritual healing and obedience trumps physical healing and yet the teaching in question does not speak about this as truth. In fact, Paul did not receive the thing he asked for nor did Christ in the garden...so did they both lack faith to believe it was theirs or is there something bigger at work then simply our asking for the desires of our hearts? That is the question I posse in an attempt to get some clarification.
    if...we are to assume as the OP seems to, that anything we ask is ours not matter what we ask for as long as we ask in belief then we must assume that Paul and Christ both lacked believing faith and I simply am not sure i can personally go along with that....As per the other things you list against, I can't see that Christ didn't receive because He had wrong motives do you? I am simply looking for some clarifications about the teaching that some hold that no matter what we ask for it is ours if we believe it is ours. From my study not only are there restrictions as you point out but asking in God's name means according to His will which is played out in both examples of Paul and Christ....iow's if it is according to God's will and purpose as we allow Him to transform our desires into His desires is how I understand it. In an attempt to understand the other side I ask questions and offer both Paul and Christ as examples of prayers not being answered as the person asked for it to be given. Please explain your position...
  4. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

    United States
    Faith is not a personal Jedi power. Fresh water streams, to which many animals and cities rely upon, come from mountains. Do you think God will throw a mountain into the sea at the detriment of everyone else simply because someones "faith power" is sufficiently high enough? Faith is referential, not self contained. It is referential to Gods nature, promises and intent. The faith to which Abraham was accounted as righteous was over his trust in Gods promise to him to make him a father of many nations. It was not some Jedi power, or authority to manifest ones own desires through God. It was a trust relationship.

    If there is any doubt Jesus explains this in John 15:7 "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." This is the boundary of faith. Just as Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Jesus (John 14:10), we abide in Christ and Christ in us (John 15:5). It is only under that abidance in which true faith lives.

    So yes, with faith one can move mountains, but faith requires an already existing alignment to Gods will, not simply our own isolated will. We do not acquire things through our imagination of them happening, we receive because we abide in Christ and believe and trust in His promises when we pray. "In Jesus Name" is not a spell, it is work done in the name of the King by His ambassadors. It is to say "This is for the King" not "do whatever I say".
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  5. salt-n-light

    salt-n-light Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    No, our plan never will go above God's plan.
  6. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    People with blind ambition will pray and seek to acquire things with or without God's approval. Merely because a thief has a stolen car, does not mean the Good Lord has blessed him with that car. Things are temporary in this world. Be careful what you pray for.
  7. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

    I'm not sure what all you mean by this.

    Obedience, spiritual healing, and physical healing are all provided for in the atonement of Jesus Christ and the giving of the Holy Spirit which was based on that atonement.

    I am simply saying that the passage having to do with the thorn has nothing to do with a physical illness or injury to Paul. It had to do with the seemingly constant resistance that he encountered everywhere he went - stirred up by the agent of Satan assigned to his ministry to keep him humble because of the great position in the Kingdom of God which he was entrusted with.

    As a result of that "thorn", Paul had to trust in the power of the Lord and not in his own power - both in order to preach the gospel and to bring souls into the Kingdom in so doing.
    The reason for the prayer of Paul not being answered is given very clearly for us as to why this exception to the rule applies. IMO it is not meant to serve as a kind of "cop out" as to why we should not endeavor to be people of faith such as Peter was at the temple and other such examples of faith.

    The reason for the prayer of Jesus not being answered is given very clearly as well. Note also that Jesus did not claim deliverance from the cross to come but only said that if it be God's will He wanted that deliverance to occur.
    I have been around Pentecostals and "Word of Faith" types for many years and I don't know of any who teach that we can have what we ask for in every case.

    You asked whether Jesus lacked faith when He asked for deliverance from the cross. In a manner of speaking (please excuse the rather crude statement here)- YES He did lack faith. He lacked faith because faith comes from believing what the Word of God says and acting on it. What the Word of God clearly said is that the Messiah must be crucified. There could be and wasn't faith for deliverance from the persecution to come in that case. He simply said that, if there was any other way, He wanted deliverance.

    As my theology see things, God provides our faith. Any faith or even lack of faith on our part was predestined to occur in the economy of God (foreseen if you must). We simply will not have the faith for believing for anything not in the will of God.

    But the scriptures are clear that whatever we ask for in actual faith will be granted to us.

    That's what it says and I believe it. Chapter and verse probably isn't necessary. You've undoubtedly seen the scriptures I would refer you to yourself.

    Like you and others - I wrestle with these things and how they play out in my life because the Word of God declares them. Some don't of course and if they don't wish to try to lay hold of the Kingdom and it's promises that's up to them. I'm not their judge.
    If I can say this without too much static here - neither Jesus nor Paul had the faith for deliverance from their persecutions. They were both told clearly and specifically what God's will was for them. In the case of Paul it was told to him directly and likely so with the Lord as well. In the case of the Lord at least - He had a couple of thousand years of scriptures which told Him God's will on he matter. He could have no faith in something other than was told to Him by the scripture He so values and, indeed, which He had written Himself in the Spirit.

    If it is in God's will He will provide the faith for it to be accomplished.

    I sure don't want to get into a conflict here about the predestination by God of everything which happens in God's creation. But I happen to believe in it very strongly.

    This is the reason I can believe what the Lord said about all things being possible if I have faith and still not condemn myself when I lack the faith to lay hands on a loved one and see them healed for instance.

    Sure - I wish I had the faith. I will continue to step out and obey the scriptures concerning praying for the sick in order to build that faith up for the time when it will be needed in order to glorify God through a healing.

    But I don't condemn myself when things don't happen as I had hoped and prayed.

    Nor do I judge and condemn those who are of "smaller" faith than myself.
    I ask questions like these constantly myself.

    I trust that my answers to you have provided at least some food for thought on the matter.

    Obviously - and for what it's worth - I didn't write the Bible and neither I nor "faith" types invented doctrines which are not in the scriptures. We only try to work them out in our own lives as best we can.

    Now --- I know of some from the "faith" side of things who refuse to think about the issues the other side present. But, moving in both circles as I do, I know of many more from the other side who effectively ignore and or even undermine the scriptures used by the faith side of things.

    I'm of the opinion that we see more than enough "exceptions" to the doctrines concerned with answered prayer, healing and such just in our own lives. As I see things, we would be better served as a church to emphasis the "positive" verses concerning these things much more than we trot out the "negative" ones. The opposite seems to be the norm in the church.

    Of course, we do need to discuss both sides of things.

    Never-the-less ----- when the Lord comes again, "will He find faith on earth?" Only time will tell.
  8. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

    Of course we are not thieves - and cars prayed for in faith and given to a person of faith by God are not stolen.

    I don't believe we need to be extremely careful when we pray for material things. We will not receive stones or serpents when we ask for material things from God who has commanded us to cast all of our care on Him who cares for us and has promised to give good gifts to those who ask Him.
  9. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

    I see this is addressed to me. Why I don't know. I've explained my position well enough I think.

    I haven't presented faith as a "Jedi power" nor have I presented laying hold of a promise of God as a "spell".
    I didn't write the book. Take it up with the author.
    Exactly as I have presented it.
    Agreed. I have never said otherwise.

    Again - I'm not sure why these things are addressed to me.:scratch:
    This is just as I have indicated that I believe also.

    Have you read my posts?

    Perhaps your unloading on me is a prime example of what have referred to previously and which I see all too often. When a person teaches on faith and answered prayer in a positive manner - there are always those who feel they need to immediately trot out negatives to counter what is being taught.

    And in this particular case - things are being said about my teaching which I never said or countenanced to in any way.

    Maybe you feel that your attack is necessary to protect God's children from receiving snakes and stones from God. I assure you, in the authority of God's Word, that such protection is not necessary.
  10. Theadorus

    Theadorus Active Member Supporter

    United States
    Really, the person just need a better understanding. They have a partial truth on faith, but they need further understanding on it. They need to understand about wrong motives, or that we cannot believe for something that is a sin. They need to understand that they can pray for whatsoever they want according to God's will. So know that If someone does pray for something that's a sin, or with wrong motives (James 4:1-3), then obviously their prayers will not be answered. For instance, If I pray that my wife dies so that I can marry another woman no matter how much faith I have, and how much I believe, and how much I expect it, or how bold I come before God, the point is that God didn't provide murder in the atonement and therefore my prayer will not be answered. Same thing if I were to rob a bank, if I believe with all my heart that I will not get caught, the truth again is that wasn't apart of the atonement either, or apart of what God promised, so I can be caught (some robbers get away ;) ). Yes, the Bible says, "whatsoever I desire," but your motives also play a part in it was well; but "whatsoever" doesn't include sin. Sin goes against God's will. But with that question, I hope you are not insinuating that asking for material possession, or finances is a sin, otherwise God would be breaking his own rules by blessing me and my family with the material possession we ask for, and finances we ask for. Yes, many people do pray for stuff with wrong motives, and with the wrong heart. They want financial increase so that they don't have to work ever again, and so they can sit on their butts all day and watch TV. Or they pray for finances with only themselves in mind (meet all their wants and needs). but there is nothing wrong with asking for stuff

    When I pray for something, all I'm doing is putting a demand on what God has already provided through Grace. If Grace didn't provide it, then my faith will not make it happen. God provided healing, so I receive that healing through faith. God provided finances, so I can receive it though faith. God gave us authority, therefore we can walk in it by faith. So when I do pray for finances, all I'm doing is coming into agreement with what God's word say about my provision, and receiving it by faith.

    I'll have to answer the other questions in pieces. Thanks for your patience.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  11. Theadorus

    Theadorus Active Member Supporter

    United States
    Jesus didn't fail in any of the areas I spoke on. You and I see this instance differently, but this is what I believe. Christ knew what was called to do, and had to do; but he was fully aware that this was the only way. There wasn't any other way, otherwise God would have already done it. You think God wanted his beloved son to suffer like that. You think he took joy and pleasure forsaking his son. You see, Jesus knew it was the Father’s will for Him to be made an offering for the sins of the world (He knew this since the beginning), as we see by the fact that He had prophesied His death and resurrection many times before. However, Jesus was asking to accomplish God’s will some other way but at the same time affirming His commitment to do His Father’s will and not His own. He was not at a loss to know God’s will, nor was he trying to get out of it, but rather, left this time of prayer trusting that whatever the Father deemed best for Him would happen. He knew what the Father’s will was when He began praying, and He knew at the close of His prayer that God’s will could not accomplished in any other way. This is evident by His statements in Matthew 26:45-46 and Mark 14:41-42. But really, who would want to be beaten, mocked, and tortured. The Son of God was going to become the very thing he despised, which was sin; and the full cup of wrath was going to be poured upon Him. The punishment for the sins of the entire would were going to be placed on him, and God the Father was going to turn his back on Him, the Son, and Jesus knew all of this. So wouldn't you be curious if what Jesus was going through could be accomplished in another way? But Jesus already knew the answer to that question before he even asked it. It wasn't that Jesus' prayer went unanswered due to lack of belief on his end because shortly after Jesus says in Matthew 20:50-55, “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?” So If Jesus could have asked the Father to do that, then don't you think Jesus would have been able to get out of being a sacrifice as well? Jesus could have very well had that prayer in the garden answered, but he knew that if didn't go though with it, his creation would have perished.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  12. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

    1 Timothy chapter 6 verse 6
    But godliness with contentment is great gain.
  13. Theadorus

    Theadorus Active Member Supporter

    United States
    @razzelflabben I'm going to give a run down of what I believe. I believe that God, by Grace has provided us with everything we will ever need in this lifetime. By Grace, God has provided us, and promised us things like health, wealth, deliverance, a relationship, redemption, authority, wisdom, knowledge, power, and so on. Now in order to access those promises and what God has already provided by Grace we need to use our faith. Now, our faith does not make God do anything. Our faith does not force God's hand, nor can we "faith" God into obeying our commands. Our faith only reaches out and takes hold of what God has already given us. So with all the verses I gave in regards to prayer, I stand on those verses, and those promises, in order to reach out in faith and take what God has already given us. Those verses give me the confidence, and boldness come to God in faith, and expect to see my prayers answered. Therefore, I can stand and believe, knowing that I will be healed, because that's something God provided for me by Grace. When I pray, that isn't when God heals me, the fact is that he provided healing for me 2000+ years ago, but all I'm doing is reaching out and taking hold of it. It's the same way with provision, and salvation, and forgiveness, and so on.

    Yes, there are some limits to what you can ask and pray for, and that's why it's so important that we understand them. And we also need to understand that there are also things we can do that will hinder our prayers, otherwise we come up strange ideas like, "God picks and chooses what he wants to answer," or in the area of praying for a healing, "Well, it may not be God's will to heal you."

    I hope that clarifies my belief a bit more. Also, I'm trying my best to explain, and help answer your questions, so please bear with me :)
  14. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

    United States
    This is an insanely difficult question. It's also, a great question to ask!

    Well, I feel that if a person is called in their hearts to do something, it is God putting it on their hearts, so they can glorify Him through that calling. So, if a man is feeling called to ministry, I feel he should go through with it, not worrying about whether or not it will fail. If that man is a righteous man, God will not suffer him to fail at this plan, so long as the man's heart and intention was truly to bring glory to the Father. Even then, sometimes, our Father will let the plan that was enacted in selfishness, succeed.

    But, so long as that man is a righteous man, and he desires to do something, especially something that glorifies the Father, he will succeed, 100% of the time.

    Psalms 1:1-3
    1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

    2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

    3And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

    It's in His word. Several ways over, many different times, many different ways. The righteous will always prosper, until the persecution, but that is still prospering. Because it's a prosperity OVER the world, and while scary and painful, it's still, in itself a prosperity.

    The bible however only describes the righteous, as one whose faith was entirely placed on God, and in God. So, even the works of their hands, were spiritually ordained, from the mouth of God. Meaning, that they followed the laws of the Torah, and not the tradition of man. This isn't what made them righteous though, what made them righteous was that they had faith on God to justify them. Any prophet, any biblical leader, any holy man, any priest all throughout the bible walked by the spirit (following the law), while they placed faith on God, and Jesus to justify them. If you believe that what Jesus has done for you, brings you closer to God than you ever could bring yourself, while you desire to uphold the laws, your life will be incredibly blessed. The word of God promises it to you. Don't get too caught up in the "all grace no law" doctrines of today. We do have grace, but that grace takes us out from under the punishment of the law, it doesn't do away with the law, only the punishment for breaking it. Since we inevitably will break it, we're humans, but we should desire to do the works of the law, and not the works of the flesh. Because the law is spiritual, and the flesh is death.
  15. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

    United States
    That person is not, "full of faith". He is full of presumption. Faith must have a basis in knowledge. It is not wishful thinking or spiritual energy of some sort.
  16. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

    United States
    Great line. Many have the mistaken idea that faith is precisely that. They, in essence, have faith in their faith, and I suspect the OP might be among them.

    Another great line. Again, I can almost hear it in peoples voices when they treat that tagline as the magic key to unlock the door to get what they desire; however, it is nothing like that. "In Jesus name" means, I come in the name of Christ, not my own, so it's very ironic when people use the phrase as an incantation.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  17. Emmy

    Emmy Senior Veteran

    Salvation Army
    Dear ByTheSpirit. Faith is good, but not all. God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters.
    Jesus tells us in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is; Love God with all thy hearts, with all thy souls, and with all thy minds. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40 we are told: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Anything without Love is not enough, love comes first, let us always remember; GOD is LOVE, and God wants loving men and women. The Bible tells us:
    Give up all selfish and unloving living, Ask God for Love, then thank God and share all love with our neighbour; all around us. Matthew 7: 7-10 tells us: Ask and you shall receive. We ask God for Love and Joy and Compassion, then we thank God and share all love and joy and compassion with our neighbour: all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends. Love is very catching, and before long we shall be the sons and daughters which God Blesses. Love is stronger than anything else, let us try and live as God wants us to live. Ask and receive, then thank God and share all love and joy and compassion with our neighbour. I say this with love, ByTheSpirit. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
  18. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

    The claim is that faith leads to answered prayer. Somehow, the message coming through that persistence is a virtue.

    It goes like this:

    1. God wants to destroy Israel, but Moses through persistence causes God to change His mind.

    2. The Judge wants to delay justice, but the persistence of the widow causes Him to give her whatever she is pestering Him for.

    3. The desperate mother knows that Christ has come only for the house of Israel, but her finding a loophole is appreciated by Jesus, who praises her for her confidence in His consideration for “dogs”.

    I don’t know if this is still taught, but there used to be a view called the permissive will of God, where God decrees an outcome to a situation, but because of the persistence of the pleader on God’s mercy and love, He permits a change on His decretive will. It’s a teaching based on very shaky grounds, on so many levels.

    However the theme that CAN be seen in the Scripture is this:

    1. A person is called out of serving the world/mammon/Egypt.

    2. He agrees to serve God instead, because God promises him better results: permanent treasure, bread that fills without the eater being hungry again, milk without cost, eating fruit from trees planted by others.

    3. He succeeds or fails, when tested.

    Did God call Abraham, Israel, Jesus out of Egypt/the world/from serving mammon?

    Yes He did:

    Matthew 2:15
    15 He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "OUT OF EGYPT I CALLED MY SON."

    Did they obey?

    Yes they did.

    Acts 7:4
    4So Abraham leftthe land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. Afterhis father died, God brought him out of that place, intothis land where you are now living.

    Next God tested those who repented, meta noia, changed their leader, switched from serving the world for fake wages, treasure that rusts, bread that doesn’t fill, to serving Him for eternal treasure. It’s called drinking from the Rock.

    How did He do it?

    God put them in dangerous situations and then rescued them.

    Did Israel betray God in spite of being shown in those trials that God could and would deliver?

    Yes, she did, she demanded to go back to Egypt, because she claimed she got her basic needs there, and some luxuries, without putting the lives of she and her children in danger. When she was warned not to go into battle without God, she took the presence of God with her for granted, put God to the test, and tried to defeat the enemy on her own. but failed.

    Did Abraham betray God in spite of being shown God could and would deliver? In the beginning, Abraham did not behave loyally to God, but when God showed him He could and would deliver His followers, Abraham put his entire faith in God.

    Did Jesus betray God in spite of being shown God could and would deliver? No!

    When God deprived Jesus of food and water, He did not use his power to create bread but He held to the truth that man does not live on bread, but every word that comes out of God’s mouth.

    Matthew 4:1-4
    1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. 3And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” 4But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’”

    When God placed Jesus on a high building , He did not use His power to save Himself, but held to the truth that God’s help should not be taken for granted.:

    Matthew 4:5-7
    5Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple,

    6and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,

    7Jesus said to him, “On the other hand, it is written, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’”

    When God tempted Jesus with all the power in the world if He served the world, Jesus refused to serve the world but held on to the truth that only God was to be served.

    Matthew 4:8-11
    8Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; 9and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” 10Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’” 11Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

    So is a person who asks for worldly things loyal to God?

    Well Jesus put the Kingdom of God first and all the other things were added to Him, so that should be our example.

    Is it bad to ask for a job if we are unemployed?

    Well Jesus said no one could be His disciple unless they gave up everything and followed Him. Asking for a job seems to be not going in the same direction as following Jesus.

    Luke 14:33
    "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

    Is it impossible to have eternal life if we do not give up everything and follow Jesus?

    Well Jesus said we could ask for terms of peace if we counted the cost and found out couldn’t pay the price.

    Luke 14:25-33
    Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, 26“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28“For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? 29“Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, 30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ 31“Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32“Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.33“So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

    Is asking for terms of peace mean asking for an extension of the time to pay the price?

    Asking for terms of peace is making friends with those who have entered the Kingdom using unrighteous mammon, so that when lose our jobs anyway because we have started out following Jesus we will be welcomed to eternal dwellings.

    Luke 16:9
    9 "And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings.

    Of course if you don’t believe that you have to chose between depending on the world to fill your belly with fake bread, and depending on God for Bread from Heaven. then you wouldn’t even want to think about such things. No one asked you to repent, meta noia, and indeed you haven’t repented. So it’s not a thing for you to think about. In other words, this message isn’t meant for you.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  19. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

    New Zealand
    If they are His then they will Be led into His will...
    And the basics of his will are well documented in scripture.

    Those who are led by the spirit of God are the sons of God.
    So if they have forsaken thier own way in order to follow Gods way then they will end up doing Gods will .
    And his will is laid out very plainly in scripture.

    Some people say..im blessed by God.
    I became a pastor of a nice Sunday organisation I have a wife ,children ,decent car, income , decent house.

    But this is illusion.
    Because the guy in the decent house next door with the wife kids car and even bigger income .owns a liqueur store ,drinks gambles curses..
    Is he too blessed then.?

    When we sign.up and say yes to JESUS we are saying yes to his will .not ours.

    We see Paul..when it is revealed to him that his passion for God is utterly misguided.his response is amazing and reflects the True state of a repentant heart.he says

    “Lord..what would YOU have me do? ”

    He immediately seeks God's will Not his own .

    And this is the point.
    “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.”

    And how do we know his will ?
    It is plainly written in his word.

    When we follow Jesus for no other reason then we love Him.we begin to Desire what HE desires.
    Not what we desire. His desire becomes our desire. This is how we know we love Him .
    And The Lord Jesus has no greater desire then that more people Get saved.
  20. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

    the true faith is never to anybody's discredit, IOW, if any person practices the faith right, it won't be to their discredit