Floatingaxe
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Is Everybody going to heaven?
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DeborahsSong
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Floatingaxe, I am confused. You stated that "Every knee will bow but not all in adoration. Many billions will bow in horrror and under duress.'' You go on to say that the cross is not available to them. Your later respond that the LORD is referring only to his own in Is 45:23-24, although it plainly says "all knees". So, you must have another scripture about the event where billions bow their knees in horror, etc. Where is it? I'm with Chaela on this, and can't find it. You cite Rev 20:11-15, but there's nothing in the quote about knees, or horror, or duress.
How do you know there won't be a second chance after the great white throne judgement and the lake of fire? Where is the scriptural reference? Jesus said the goats would go into kolasin aionian, "age during punishment" in Matt 25:46. The Greek word used for punishment refers to corrective punishment designed to benefit the one who receives it. The HS did not use the Greek word for punishment that is retributive in nature. God's not going to leave his children in everlasting "time out".
Or again, Jesus said the wicked would be thrown into a fiery furnace. The Greek word used for furnace is a refining furnace. Fire and brimstone are used to refine precious metals. Once the dross is separated, the precious metal is removed. Our God is the refiner. His children are the precious metal.
Also, in regard to God's presence with those in the lake, the scripture I quoted earlier, Rev 14:10 , states that man will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presense of the Lamb and His angels. You say this is at the sentencing only, but torment, fire and brimstone describe the lake of fire environment, not that of the white throne.
Lastly, and I say this in love, you put down the speculation of others, and decry "wondering", but don't you see that much of what do say is just that. The only difference, is that the speculation you honor has been around for centuries, but that doesn't make it truth. I pray for all of us that God open our eyes to see wonderful things in His law, Ps 119:18
How do you know there won't be a second chance after the great white throne judgement and the lake of fire? Where is the scriptural reference? Jesus said the goats would go into kolasin aionian, "age during punishment" in Matt 25:46. The Greek word used for punishment refers to corrective punishment designed to benefit the one who receives it. The HS did not use the Greek word for punishment that is retributive in nature. God's not going to leave his children in everlasting "time out".
Or again, Jesus said the wicked would be thrown into a fiery furnace. The Greek word used for furnace is a refining furnace. Fire and brimstone are used to refine precious metals. Once the dross is separated, the precious metal is removed. Our God is the refiner. His children are the precious metal.
Also, in regard to God's presence with those in the lake, the scripture I quoted earlier, Rev 14:10 , states that man will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presense of the Lamb and His angels. You say this is at the sentencing only, but torment, fire and brimstone describe the lake of fire environment, not that of the white throne.
Lastly, and I say this in love, you put down the speculation of others, and decry "wondering", but don't you see that much of what do say is just that. The only difference, is that the speculation you honor has been around for centuries, but that doesn't make it truth. I pray for all of us that God open our eyes to see wonderful things in His law, Ps 119:18
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Floatingaxe
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There are innumerable times in Scripture where God uses "all", and he is clearly referring to His people, and not the whole world. You need to read in context at all times.
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Floatingaxe
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After the GWT there is the Lake of Fire. End of god's Word to youm, and end of story. That is all you have to work with. When he says the smoke of their torent goes up forever, He means just that.
Making up new scenarios is sin and will be charged to those who do such folly by God for leading weak people astray.
Fire and brimstone is punishment. The refining takes place in the spirits of the redeemed ONLY, 1000 years earlier. No brimstone there, sorry!
Making up new scenarios is sin and will be charged to those who do such folly by God for leading weak people astray.
Fire and brimstone is punishment. The refining takes place in the spirits of the redeemed ONLY, 1000 years earlier. No brimstone there, sorry!
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Floatingaxe
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I don't have to speculate. God tells us all the same thing. I have confidence in His Word. God doesn't say something so fearful to me that I have to invent a fable about eternal torment, that it is mere refining and that it isn't forever--He says it is! And refining is useless to those who hate God.
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HEisGoodalways
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THE GREAT GULF
"Oh," you reply, "the story of Lazarus, and the rich man who in Hades lifted up his eyes, being in torments, teaches us that there is no bridge between heaven and hell, no way to escape the tormenting fire." I shall speak very plainly about that. In the first place the story of the rich man and Lazarus is usually considered without any reference to its setting. Near the close of Jesus' ministry He had eaten dinner with a Pharisee, at which time He not only healed a man with dropsy, but gave some pointed instructions about how to give a dinner party. When He left the house, great throngs followed Him (Lk. 14:25).
Many of this crowd were publicans and sinners. In Lk. 15:1-2 we read, "Then drew near unto Him all the publicans and sinners to hear Him, and the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receives sinners, and eats with them." It is against this background of criticism from the scribes and Pharisees that the teaching of Lk. 15 and 16 are given. That whole discourse is called a parable. "And He spoke this parable unto them, saying" (Lk. 15:3). The Greek is very definite in making the word for parable clearly a singular noun. It is "the parable this." Five seemingly separate stories enter into His teaching to carry the truth of "THIS PARABLE." His usual method of teaching all but the inner circle of His disciples was by a parable. "All these things spoke Jesus IN PARABLES unto the multitudes; and without a parable spoke He nothing unto them" (Mat. 13:34). "But privately to His disciples He expounded all things" (Mk. 4:34).
Now, it is not my purpose to explain the meaning of the parable in this writing, for that is another story altogether. I would be remiss if I did not point out, however, that while the story itself IS A PARABLE, in all parables there must be a correspondence between the type and the antitype or they fail to have validity as parables. Let me illustrate. Jesus spoke a parable, saying, "Behold, a sower went forth to sow." He then explained how the seed fell upon various kinds of soil, and the result from each. Now, since this is a parable, it is obvious that Jesus is not just relating a series of facts; He is not talking about a certain literal farmer sowing actual seed such as wheat or corn. Each part of the story is a symbol, a metaphor, an illustration of something else, and we know, of course, that the sower is the Christ, the seed is the Word of the Kingdom and the soils are different kinds of hearts. But - if there were no such thing as seed, and no such activity as sowing, and no actual soil in existence, then the parable would have no base, no strength, no meaning - it would not be a parable at all, but merely a fantastic, unrealistic, imaginary fairy tale! It is the FACT of seed, sowers, and soils that gives the parable its strength.
So, in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, if there is no such thing as Hades, and if there is no sense of suffering of punishment in Hades, then the application of the parable fails. There must be some reality to these things or the parable is not a parable at all! But in the parable Lazarus is said to be in "Abraham's bosom." The phrase "Abraham's bosom" was a well-known one, current among the people of Judea to express the state of the faithful Israelite who had died and been "gathered unto his fathers." Abraham's bosom typifies a position of acceptance and favor in the Kingdom of God, for, "If you be Christ's, then you are Abraham 's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Gal. 3:29), and "many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham in the Kingdom of Heaven" (Mat. 8:11).
The rich man wanted Lazarus to come and cool his tongue. He had been a very bad man, and so was tormented in the hell he had created for himself. But when he asked that Lazarus should cross, Abraham said, "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed; no one can cross it." Abraham could not cross that gulf. It was a fixed gulf to him. Ah, no, Abraham could not get across to him! I know Abraham could not pass over it, and I do not wonder at Abraham's not being able to pass over it. I am not a great admirer of Abraham. A man that will hide behind his wife and say she is his sister in order to save his own skin, is not to be greatly admired! That is just what Abraham did. Abraham got behind Sarah's robes, saying to her in effect as follows: "Now, when Abimelech comes along, you say to him that you are my sister, and not my wife; you are so beautiful that if he knows you are my wife he will kill me. But it won't matter, even though you are carried off to his harem, you will know Abraham's skin is alright." I think that was a very pitiful kind of a man, if his name was Abraham. I do not wonder that he could not cross the gulf.
(ed. note: For a more in-depth study of Lazarus and the Rich Man read ABRAHAM'S BOSOM linked below.)
I do not wonder that Isaac could not cross. He was just the same kind of fellow, and did exactly the same thing. I do not wonder that Jacob could not cross. He was one of the cutest scamps that ever lived. He persuaded his brother to sell him his whole inheritance, his entire birthright, for a mess of portage, and then deceived his poor old blind father and brazenly lied and stole his brother's blessing. A very mean man was Jacob. "But these are Patriarchs!" you say. I know that, that shows what a poor lot the best of them were. Wonderful that God Almighty could make so much out of them! And we are a poor lot, too, and it is wonderful what God can make out of us.
The Bible says that Abraham could not cross that abyss, nor could Lazarus. There is no denying that, BUT THE CHRIST CROSSED THAT ABYSS. There is the difference! You say that Abraham said, "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they which would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us." Let me remind you that, although Abraham said that, the Christ did not. That is right, Abraham, you could not bridge it! And even if you could, you did not have the keys to the gates. But the Christ crossed that gulf, and HIS SALVATION BRIDGED IT. Christ bridged it! The Christ Himself IS THE BRIDGE! It is no use talking nonsense, saying that the gulf was not bridged. It was not bridged at the time Jesus told that story, but when He arose and grasped the keys of death and of hell, He made a way for His banished to return.
It was bridged by Jesus Christ, and there is not any gulf that He cannot bridge. I believe it! If there is, then He is not God, because there is no gulf that God and His love cannot bridge. Jesus Christ has bridged the gulf between God and man, between Israelite and Gentile, between bond and free, between male and female, between rich and poor, and between heaven and hell. He has bridged all the gulfs, blessed be His name, and so "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28). Thank God! a greater than Abraham is here. He bridges the gulf between heaven and earth and between earth and hell, for it is written, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11). Weymouth translates, "That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of beings in the highest heavens, of those on the earth, and of THOSE IN THE UNDERWORLD, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." The hymn writer captured the wonderful truth of this when he penned these immortal words:
"Oh," you reply, "the story of Lazarus, and the rich man who in Hades lifted up his eyes, being in torments, teaches us that there is no bridge between heaven and hell, no way to escape the tormenting fire." I shall speak very plainly about that. In the first place the story of the rich man and Lazarus is usually considered without any reference to its setting. Near the close of Jesus' ministry He had eaten dinner with a Pharisee, at which time He not only healed a man with dropsy, but gave some pointed instructions about how to give a dinner party. When He left the house, great throngs followed Him (Lk. 14:25).
Many of this crowd were publicans and sinners. In Lk. 15:1-2 we read, "Then drew near unto Him all the publicans and sinners to hear Him, and the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receives sinners, and eats with them." It is against this background of criticism from the scribes and Pharisees that the teaching of Lk. 15 and 16 are given. That whole discourse is called a parable. "And He spoke this parable unto them, saying" (Lk. 15:3). The Greek is very definite in making the word for parable clearly a singular noun. It is "the parable this." Five seemingly separate stories enter into His teaching to carry the truth of "THIS PARABLE." His usual method of teaching all but the inner circle of His disciples was by a parable. "All these things spoke Jesus IN PARABLES unto the multitudes; and without a parable spoke He nothing unto them" (Mat. 13:34). "But privately to His disciples He expounded all things" (Mk. 4:34).
Now, it is not my purpose to explain the meaning of the parable in this writing, for that is another story altogether. I would be remiss if I did not point out, however, that while the story itself IS A PARABLE, in all parables there must be a correspondence between the type and the antitype or they fail to have validity as parables. Let me illustrate. Jesus spoke a parable, saying, "Behold, a sower went forth to sow." He then explained how the seed fell upon various kinds of soil, and the result from each. Now, since this is a parable, it is obvious that Jesus is not just relating a series of facts; He is not talking about a certain literal farmer sowing actual seed such as wheat or corn. Each part of the story is a symbol, a metaphor, an illustration of something else, and we know, of course, that the sower is the Christ, the seed is the Word of the Kingdom and the soils are different kinds of hearts. But - if there were no such thing as seed, and no such activity as sowing, and no actual soil in existence, then the parable would have no base, no strength, no meaning - it would not be a parable at all, but merely a fantastic, unrealistic, imaginary fairy tale! It is the FACT of seed, sowers, and soils that gives the parable its strength.
So, in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, if there is no such thing as Hades, and if there is no sense of suffering of punishment in Hades, then the application of the parable fails. There must be some reality to these things or the parable is not a parable at all! But in the parable Lazarus is said to be in "Abraham's bosom." The phrase "Abraham's bosom" was a well-known one, current among the people of Judea to express the state of the faithful Israelite who had died and been "gathered unto his fathers." Abraham's bosom typifies a position of acceptance and favor in the Kingdom of God, for, "If you be Christ's, then you are Abraham 's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Gal. 3:29), and "many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham in the Kingdom of Heaven" (Mat. 8:11).
The rich man wanted Lazarus to come and cool his tongue. He had been a very bad man, and so was tormented in the hell he had created for himself. But when he asked that Lazarus should cross, Abraham said, "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed; no one can cross it." Abraham could not cross that gulf. It was a fixed gulf to him. Ah, no, Abraham could not get across to him! I know Abraham could not pass over it, and I do not wonder at Abraham's not being able to pass over it. I am not a great admirer of Abraham. A man that will hide behind his wife and say she is his sister in order to save his own skin, is not to be greatly admired! That is just what Abraham did. Abraham got behind Sarah's robes, saying to her in effect as follows: "Now, when Abimelech comes along, you say to him that you are my sister, and not my wife; you are so beautiful that if he knows you are my wife he will kill me. But it won't matter, even though you are carried off to his harem, you will know Abraham's skin is alright." I think that was a very pitiful kind of a man, if his name was Abraham. I do not wonder that he could not cross the gulf.
(ed. note: For a more in-depth study of Lazarus and the Rich Man read ABRAHAM'S BOSOM linked below.)
I do not wonder that Isaac could not cross. He was just the same kind of fellow, and did exactly the same thing. I do not wonder that Jacob could not cross. He was one of the cutest scamps that ever lived. He persuaded his brother to sell him his whole inheritance, his entire birthright, for a mess of portage, and then deceived his poor old blind father and brazenly lied and stole his brother's blessing. A very mean man was Jacob. "But these are Patriarchs!" you say. I know that, that shows what a poor lot the best of them were. Wonderful that God Almighty could make so much out of them! And we are a poor lot, too, and it is wonderful what God can make out of us.
The Bible says that Abraham could not cross that abyss, nor could Lazarus. There is no denying that, BUT THE CHRIST CROSSED THAT ABYSS. There is the difference! You say that Abraham said, "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they which would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us." Let me remind you that, although Abraham said that, the Christ did not. That is right, Abraham, you could not bridge it! And even if you could, you did not have the keys to the gates. But the Christ crossed that gulf, and HIS SALVATION BRIDGED IT. Christ bridged it! The Christ Himself IS THE BRIDGE! It is no use talking nonsense, saying that the gulf was not bridged. It was not bridged at the time Jesus told that story, but when He arose and grasped the keys of death and of hell, He made a way for His banished to return.
It was bridged by Jesus Christ, and there is not any gulf that He cannot bridge. I believe it! If there is, then He is not God, because there is no gulf that God and His love cannot bridge. Jesus Christ has bridged the gulf between God and man, between Israelite and Gentile, between bond and free, between male and female, between rich and poor, and between heaven and hell. He has bridged all the gulfs, blessed be His name, and so "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28). Thank God! a greater than Abraham is here. He bridges the gulf between heaven and earth and between earth and hell, for it is written, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11). Weymouth translates, "That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of beings in the highest heavens, of those on the earth, and of THOSE IN THE UNDERWORLD, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." The hymn writer captured the wonderful truth of this when he penned these immortal words:
Oh, the love that drew salvation's plan!
Oh, the grace that brought it down to man!
Oh, the mighty GULF THAT GOD DID SPAN at Calvary!
- My greatest desire is to be filled with all the fullness of God and come into the image of Jesus Christ. My greatest obsession is that I might be counted worthy to stand in that glorious company of the MANIFESTED SONS OF GOD. As God knows my heart, it is not a selfish desire. The reason I want to be like Jesus is because I love Him so; but also because it is the only way I can ever be used in the restoration of fallen creation. I see the desperate needs of the world around me, and realize that I am powerless to do anything about it on a sufficient scale. Oh, yes, I can pray, agree with God, and see occasional conversions, deliverances, and victories. But anyone who says that they have reached the place where their ministry is meeting the needs of this sin-cursed world is either blind to the needs of man, a proud hypocrite, or a compulsive liar.
But God has a purpose in His people. God's purpose is NOT to redeem a bunch of people to sit at a bus stop and wait for a heavenly bus to come along and take them out of this mess. God is preparing SONS to change the world, to seek and save, to redeem and restore all back into God. These Sons will not be found looking up into the sky, expecting Jesus to come and snatch them away to heaven! God has redeemed us and is putting Himself into us so that He may send us to clean up the mess that the devil has made.
For this day of deliverance the whole creation groans! For these Sons who shall bring the deliverance all creation travails! "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared to the glory that shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD... because the creation itself also shall he delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now" (Rom. 8:18-22). From within the prisonhouse of sin and death and hell can be heard the groaning and the travailing of the whole creation. We know this groaning is not a groaning for the manifestation of merely God or of His Son, Jesus the Christ. Somehow, through the infinite wisdom and work of God, there is a faint ray of knowledge deep within the subconsciousness of the prisoners, that their release is going to come through the ministry of the SONS OF GOD. God will not singlehandedly deliver the prisoners, and neither will Jesus the Christ. But some of the very prisoners of that prison, who once mingled with all the rest, have been ushered out to become a FIRSTFRUIT OF HIS REDEMPTION and commissioned of God, chosen of God to pass through a process of training, preparation, testing. and transformation that they may return and release the captives.
The processing, the purging, the change, the transformation and the testing that the chosen ones must go through is of great importance to us. Hear now the inspired admonition of the apostle Paul in whose spirit this hope burned brightly: "I entreat you, therefore, brethren, by the tender compassions of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice holy, well-pleasing to God, your rational service. And do not conform yourselves TO THIS AGE, but transform yourselves by the renovation of your mind, that you may ascertain what is the will of God, the good, and well-pleasing, and perfect" (Rom. 12:1-2, Diaglott).
In God's wonderful plan there is the call for the PRESENTING OF OUR BODIES. There is the ASCERTAINING OF HIS WILL, and the being CONFORMED TO THE AGE AND THE AGES THAT ARE TO COME. We are not to be married to THIS AGE, but we are to remain unmarried to it that we might be married to that age and those ages that are coming. The children of this age, Jesus said, marry and are given in marriage to this age, but the children of the resurrection, the Sons of God, those destined to deliver the creation, neither marry nor are given in marriage to this age, but are keeping themselves unto the age and the ages to come, and the gracious and glorious ministry reserved for that time.
Ah, let us surrender ourselves unto God for the blessing and deliverance of ALL CREATION! Go here for ABRAHAM'S BOSOM
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Floatingaxe
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Even the parable teaches that not all men receive the promise, and those who miss it are in extreme agony and wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Jesus is so good at illustrating truth! Only those who will see it will see it--as He said.
Jesus is so good at illustrating truth! Only those who will see it will see it--as He said.
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DeborahsSong
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HeisGoodalways-I love your posts. All means all, every means every. Thank you for shedding light on God's grand plan!!!!!
Floatingaxe, if only the chosen are refined, then why did Jesus consign the wicked to a refining furnace? Fire and brimstone are punishment, remedial punishment. This is what God's word says, and it wasn't written in English. Where are the scriptures to back up your interpretations of God's word. You do recognize that they are interpretations, don't you? You may have heard them from the pulpit; you may have learned about them in Sunday School, but this doesn't make them God's word.
Floatingaxe, if only the chosen are refined, then why did Jesus consign the wicked to a refining furnace? Fire and brimstone are punishment, remedial punishment. This is what God's word says, and it wasn't written in English. Where are the scriptures to back up your interpretations of God's word. You do recognize that they are interpretations, don't you? You may have heard them from the pulpit; you may have learned about them in Sunday School, but this doesn't make them God's word.
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HEisGoodalways
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HeisGoodalways-I love your posts. All means all, every means every. Thank you for shedding light on God's grand plan!!!!!
Sister!!! It's really good news, isn't it!! Glory to God!!!
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Its not good news that much of the bible is supposedly error, or not 'translated' properly.
They are tormented forever (those who take the mark to use but one example) means what it says.
People can say, it means something else, but then the whole words become meaningless if they all mean different things than what they clearly say.
God is justice.
Thank you Floatingaxe, for posting the truth even if many cannot hear it.
They are tormented forever (those who take the mark to use but one example) means what it says.
People can say, it means something else, but then the whole words become meaningless if they all mean different things than what they clearly say.
God is justice.
Thank you Floatingaxe, for posting the truth even if many cannot hear it.
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DeborahsSong
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Icedtea, I'm not saying that the bible is in error. Our popular translations have some serious errors, but there are good literal ones to help get us back to what the HS is actually saying.
The problem started with Augustine. He reasoned that since God gave us eternal life, then it was OK to translate aionian life as "eternal", even though aion relates to periods of time with a beginning and an end. Since other scriptures that don't use aion testify that we have eternal life, at first blush, it doesn't seem like a horrible error. It is, however, a horrible error, because in MT 25:46, aionian life and aionian punishment are paralleled. Scripture does not support that God punishes forever. It says quite the opposite.
Besides, as Marvin Vincent has remarked, when Jesus talks about aionian life, He is describing the quality of life that characterizes the age about to begin with His death. It is knowing God the Father and JC whom He has sent. Jesus is not even talking about duration.
The problem started with Augustine. He reasoned that since God gave us eternal life, then it was OK to translate aionian life as "eternal", even though aion relates to periods of time with a beginning and an end. Since other scriptures that don't use aion testify that we have eternal life, at first blush, it doesn't seem like a horrible error. It is, however, a horrible error, because in MT 25:46, aionian life and aionian punishment are paralleled. Scripture does not support that God punishes forever. It says quite the opposite.
Besides, as Marvin Vincent has remarked, when Jesus talks about aionian life, He is describing the quality of life that characterizes the age about to begin with His death. It is knowing God the Father and JC whom He has sent. Jesus is not even talking about duration.
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HumbleServant94
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Use the KJV version. It's the most accurate version and according to it hell is a literal place. Besides, if someone did tamper the Bible, then we shouldn't trust the Bible. It doesn't make any sense.
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Not that I've said much in this thread, but I'd like to avoid any confusion and clarify my position. Judgement is judgement. When we're judged we're judged. Either we have Christ or we have our sins. So I do believe that the "verdict" is final. I also believe that how any given person spends eternity is exactly how that person wants to spend eternity, at least opposed to the other option. My only deal is with the descriptions of that eternity. What is the nature of the Lake of Fire? What is the nature of the New Heavens and New Earth. Is the Lake of Fire an actual lake with actual fire? Or does it represent the worst kind of suffering, whatever that might be?
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Floatingaxe
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The wicked are never sent to any refining furnace. Stop believing in fairy tales, and spreading them as truth here. It goes against God's Word, His very nature, and all that He has done for us through His Son, Jesus Christ (not JC).
His Kingdom will stand FOREVER. So will His JUDGMENTS.
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In the spirit of Luke 6:28, God bless you, FA. I do pray your Sunday is going well for you.
This doesn't answer my question. Again, where does it say that "every knee will bow in horror, under duress, knowing they've chosen poorly"?
.
.
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Floatingaxe
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In the spirit of Luke 6:28, God bless you, FA. I do pray your Sunday is going well for you.
Very telling that I am viewed as an enemy. Jesus is my Saviour and Lord, so how can that be, pray tell?
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- Dec 26, 2007
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We're all sinners. According to what you're saying here, we're all going to "hell".
Amen. That's why He provided a remedy for it through His Son Jesus.
He is the Savior of all men, especially (not exclusively) of believers. (1 Timothy 2:4)
Even the "pros" evidently can't come to an agreement on this. Check out "Hell: Even Bible Translators Themselves Don't Agree" for a rundown on the list of the more popular bible versions and the differences in how often--if at all--"Hell" is mentioned in them.
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Floatingaxe
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Revelation 20:11-15
The Final Judgment
11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before Gods throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.
FINAL judgment means just that---FINAL.
At this point there ain't no one on their knees..no place to hide, it says. No one found in the Book of Life, those who are unredeemed by the blood of Christ--are put away forever.
The Final Judgment
11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before Gods throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.
FINAL judgment means just that---FINAL.
At this point there ain't no one on their knees..no place to hide, it says. No one found in the Book of Life, those who are unredeemed by the blood of Christ--are put away forever.
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Floatingaxe
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Those who live Spirit-led lives are not viewed as sinners by God. Thank God.
Colossians 3:2-4
Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
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To hear the way some carry on, one would think that Christ never went through the trouble He did to save us. Thank you for acknowledging Jesus' role in the redemption of all creation, HEisGoodalways!
Your statement above reminds me of that song by Point of Grace, called "The Great Divide", where they say,
"There's a bridge to cross the great divide
There's a cross to bridge the great divide."
That bridge is Jesus, through His sacrifice on the cross!There's a cross to bridge the great divide."
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