Is Everybody going to heaven?

[brinny]

Help yourself to google. Type in hell and hinduism. You will get about 3.5 million hits.


Have you ever watched comedy central. It happens all the time.


Yes... I take His grace very for granted. It is totally reliable and really the only thing I have. Doing so is called "faith."

What is your faith based on?

 

[Tamara224]

Well, see if you are able to balance out the idea of annihilation/eternal torment with the verses found here.


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LOL. Quit moving the mark, Chaela. My point was that just because hell may not be eternal torture doesn't mean the wicked will go to heaven. There are other possibilities. I'm not here to argue for annihilationism as I'm not actually a proponent of that theory. I see it as possible, even plausible, but not difinitive.

 

[Rajni]

What I want to know is on what you base your claim that non-inheritors (non-heirs) will be allowed to live on the land that is not theirs. If they don't inherit it, then why are they allowed to live there?

Aren’t Kingdoms inhabited by more people other than just the heirs? If it were just the heirs, that’s not a very large Kingdom, is it?

Sorry, this seems rather sketchy to me. The Tree of Life whose leaves provide healing for the nations is, IMO, talking about healing the whole land (earth) from the curse as well as redeeming human nature. That passage also says "No longer will there be any curse."

Simply removing sinners from the world does not heal the land of the decay that came in when sin entered. The whole earth suffers from the effects of the Fall. The healing that will come, IMO, means that everything will finally be redeemed.

Nor does removing sinners prevent new sinners from popping up. If we were to gather all the murderers in the world, for example, and put them in a huge prison and throw away the key, that would not mean the end of murder on earth.

In the new earth, the curse - that is, our fallen nature - will be no more.

While this interpretation of the Healing Tree scenario differs from the one I presented, it still helps in demonstrating just how little room there is for the idea of eternal torment or annihilation. It points to the fact that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. He doesn’t just relocate sin somewhere so that it’s effects can continue where the saved don’t have to see it. He takes it away completely. So that's cool too!

 

[Rajni]

LOL. Quit moving the mark, Chaela. My point was that just because hell may not be eternal torture doesn't mean the wicked will go to heaven. There are other possibilities. I'm not here to argue for annihilationism as I'm not actually a proponent of that theory. I see it as possible, even plausible, but not difinitive.

What mark am I moving? I stated "annihilation / eternal torment".

My point is that there are a ton of verses that have convinced me that everyone is redeemed in the end.


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[Tamara224]

Aren’t Kingdoms inhabited by more people other than just the heirs? If it were just the heirs, that’s not a very large Kingdom, is it?

While this interpretation of the Healing Tree scenario differs from the one I presented, it still helps in demonstrating just how little room there is for the idea of eternal torment or annihilation. It points to the fact that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. He doesn’t just relocate sin somewhere so that it’s effects can continue where the saved don’t have to see it. He takes it away completely. So that's cool too!

No, it doesn't really do that at all. lol. I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion, actually.

The saved get redeemed, healed and made whole - the curse is lifted from them. But the unrepentant wicked don't get that. They are removed and/or cease to exist.

'Thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death.' I'm afraid there isn't any way to interpret that as "allowed into heaven with those whose names are written in the Book of Life."

 

[Rajni]

'Thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death.' I'm afraid there isn't any way to interpret that as "allowed into heaven with those whose names are written in the Book of Life."

[FONT=&quot]Since death itself gets abolished, I don't see how a 2nd Death can be an endless condition.[/FONT]
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[enoch son]

No, it doesn't really do that at all. lol. I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion, actually.

The saved get redeemed, healed and made whole - the curse is lifted from them. But the unrepentant wicked don't get that. They are removed and/or cease to exist.

'Thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death.' I'm afraid there isn't any way to interpret that as "allowed into heaven with those whose names are written in the Book of Life."

So Jesus failed and has to have man's help to do the father will? That will preach in cleveland!

 

[icedtea]

What mark am I moving? I stated "annihilation / eternal torment".

My point is that there are a ton of verses that have convinced me that everyone is redeemed in the end.


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Well, there a lot of verses which convinced Charles manson of things. People use verses to support their views at times.
Too many verses which state hell and forever mean either its so or the bible is full of lies and mistakes.

 

[Tamara224]

So Jesus failed and has to have man's help to do the father will? That will preach in cleveland!

So when did you stop beating your wife?

 

[MrSnow]

So where are the names? Who's book of life is it? What right do you have to read it in a unloving matter? I think you need to rethink, because it called the Lambs book of life. And there is only one name worthy of being in it and it aren't your's and mine.
And by the way what do you think the cross is a picnic?

Dude, man, you're reading a lot into what I wrote. All I said is that I don't know the answers.

 

[enoch son]

Dude, man, you're reading a lot into what I wrote. All I said is that I don't know the answers.

That's OK but these are just a few question that one needs to answer. Like have you study what God say's His wrath is after the cross? To make it short it say's He will make us a righteous nation. Just a little history if I had a dollar for ever preacher who said to me I knew what I was saying was wrong about hell and the nature of God please let me repent. If I preach the truth the people will firer me. Sorry I can't take this anymore.

 

[enoch son]

So when did you stop beating your wife?

Straw man! Answer the question?

 

[Rajni]

Well, there a lot of verses which convinced Charles manson of things.

What does Charles Manson have to do with God’s success rate in the salvation department?
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People use verses to support their views at times.

Yes, I see this all the time in their attempts to validate the endless hell concept (which, by the way, makes God out to be infinitely worse than Charles Manson).

Too many verses which state hell and forever mean either its so or the bible is full of lies and mistakes.

I'm not sure how God's being 100% successful in His intended mission equates to His Scriptures being full of mistakes.

 

[enoch son]

Also did God write it or the hand of a king to meet his views? I know God wrote the frist in greek and hebrew. But the rest of the bible's I have to study to see if these things are so.

 

[HEisGoodalways]

Question

Is the lake of fire in Revelation a literal fire like our fireplace or bbg or is it a spiritual fire?

When we die where does our flesh go, back to dust?

Where does our spirit go, back to God who gave it?

If we are one of the chosen few in this life the Father has drawn to the Son and our spirit has been quickened by His Spirit, then are we not those who are inheriting the kingdom now and forever and we will rule and reign with Him , we will be ruling and reigning with Him over the rest of the world who have been refined in the lake of fire(spiritual fire) after bowing their knee at the great white throne when they realize it is all true ,Jesus is all in all!!

 

[enoch son]

Question

Is the lake of fire in Revelation a literal fire like our fireplace or bbg or is it a spiritual fire?

When we die where does our flesh go, back to dust?

Where does our spirit go, back to God who gave it?

If we are one of the chosen few in this life the Father has drawn to the Son and our spirit has been quickened by His Spirit, then are we not those who are inheriting the kingdom now and forever and we will rule and reign with Him , we will be ruling and reigning with Him over the rest of the world who have been refined in the lake of fire(spiritual fire) after bowing their knee at the great white throne when they realize it is all true ,Jesus is all in all!!

Heb. 12;29 "truly for the God of us fire a consuming" It's God. Your post is loaded with truth. As for what happean's has already been done before the foundation of the world at the slaining of the lamb. What we will be doing is the Father will as one. And that could be anything He wants. It will be great!

 

[HEisGoodalways]

Heb. 12;29 "truly for the God of us fire a consuming" It's God. Your post is loaded with truth. As for what happean's has already been done before the foundation of the world at the slaining of the lamb. What we will be doing is the Father will as one. And that could be anything He wants. It will be great!

Amen brother and thanksfor the blessings!!

God began to reveal the truth to me a few years ago

After studying the Word since August of 1980, HE began to reveal to me the truth about alot of things that I have come to find out that most of the church is being deceived about

It started in another forum thru a poster named Papacoyote, every time I would read his posts I could feel the annointing on it, one day he mentioned how the things that are being purged and refined in our lives now are thrown in the lake of fire and it just began to click and be revealed to me with the help of some excellent teachers

I beleive God is revealing the truth to more and more diligent seekers of Him and His truth

 

[DeborahsSong]

This is in response to post #11 by SVT4HIM. It claims that iff aion is temporary than (I chose one of the examples at random), God is not immortal, He eventually dies. 1 Tim 1:17 is referenced to support this notion. The KJV has "Now unto the King eternal, immortal...." . The Greek word translated "eternal" is aionion. The word translated "immortal" is aphtharto, meaning incorruptible. Now, Young's literal translation (Young of Young's Concordance fame) has "And to the King of the ages, incorruptible...." This honors the temporal nature of aion, while still maintaining God's immortality, since aphtharto does that work. Indeed, if aionion meant eternity to Paul, he would not need aphtharto . He is acknowledging God's authority in both the earthly, temporal sphere and the heavenly realm. I

The greatest of Greek biblical scholars, Marvin Vincent, stated that the bible supports the idea of eternal life in many ways, and passages, but none that employ aion or its cognates. So, happily, we can honor aion's temporal nature and still enjoy a scriptural guarantee of eternal life. So, it is with the attributes of God. Other scriptures, other Greek words define who He is.

Someone posted that universalists (inclusionists) are inconsistent in their use of aion, sometimes translating it "eternity" or "age', as suits their purpose. While I cannot vouch for all of us amateurs, this seems unjustified. Literal translations, such as Young's, consistently translate aion and cognates as temporal words. This charge more properly should be brought against translations, such as the KJV, where aion is sometimes translated "eternity", sometimes "age", sometimes "world", sometimes "generation". If the KJ translators had been consistent, then we would have such nonsense as "at the end of eternity", "the sons of this eternity", "eternities", etc.

 

[MrSnow]

Not that this is my official opinion, but sometimes I think that Heaven and the Lake of Fire might be the same thing, the only difference being the person experiencing it. A lump of butter and a lump of clay, when put under the same hot sun, react very differently - the butter melts and the clay hardens.

 

[HEisGoodalways]

Not that this is my official opinion, but sometimes I think that Heaven and the Lake of Fire might be the same thing, the only difference being the person experiencing it. A lump of butter and a lump of clay, when put under the same hot sun, react very differently - the butter melts and the clay hardens.

Amen brother, The kingdom of God is in us and all around us now in the Spirit, as our Lord Jesus prayed "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", as we as christians seek God thru praise, prayer, spending time in His presence we are tapping in and flowing in the kingdom of God in the Spirit, bringing heaven to earth, in this kingdom we have many things that happen in our spiritual lives to prepare and equip us for purposes here now, and the next life, which the lake of fire experience is one of the things we go thru at times in our spiritual lives.

Look at it this way, in the old testament we had the city of God,Jerusalem, in the kingdom of Israel ,Gods chosen people, and David was king, asthe book of Esther says, it was vast kingdom with miles and miles of land and countryside with rivers and lakes , mountains and hills, and this whole kingdom was blessed by God as long as Israel and its king obeyed God

Within the Kingdom of God now we have the New Jerusalem that has come down out of heaven, we have King Jesus on our throne , now in the Spirit, working in our lives, well we are the temple for Gods Spirit within the kingdom in the new jerusalem, the rivers in the kingdom speak of the river of the Holy spirit that flows through our lives and look at Ezekiel 47 how the river flows thru the temple(us), then it talks about us eventually swimming in the in the river, sometimes floating and soaking in His river of life, well sometimes we end up in the lake for awhile where we experience some strong winds and big waves which typify the trials of life,the fire that refines us and then we come out on the other side of the lake flowing in the river again, it is all in the kingdom of God the heavenly spiritual kingdom that has come to earth in the Spirit

It is actually, beleive it or not, the book of revelation being played out now in our spiritual lives and among us as His church

1Peter 2 We, as living stones are being built up a spiritual house(temple)

When? Now, in the Spirit in the new Jerusalem, now in the Spirit