Is Everybody going to heaven?

[icedtea]

Like pretty much everything else in our lives, including our very existence, our salvation was decided without our vote or permission in the matter. So, yeah, Praise be is right!

Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyone open the door. Another mistaken verse. Or it may mean something only a few realize evne though it sounds different.
Also all the verses where some are not saved, not in heaven, all mistakes too.

 

[LeadWorship]

So that's the only tangible difference between a believer and a non-believer -- their status after death? You don't see any real benefit, or difference, in having a relationship with the Lord here on earth, now?

Sorry ma'am, I don't live for a status - I live for my maker. It's not a matter of our socio-status after death, but the location at which we will spend eternity. I'd rather be in the presence of Almighty than to be separated from Him.

1 John 4:19 says "We love Him, because He first loved us." It doesn't say "we love Him because He first threatened us with torture or annihilation if we didn't."

You forget what God did to those people in the old testament who opposed him, didn't you. You also, like many, have lost fact of the simple truth that God is the SAME, YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER. That same God is still my Majesty today.

Like pretty much everything else in our lives, including our very existence, our salvation was decided without our vote or permission in the matter. So, yeah, Praise be is right!

You obviously don't know what sacrifices were used for in the old testament, because you surely wouldn't make this type of statement if you did. Sacrifices were offered up to be accepted by God. God gave his perfect sacrifice to us, so we don't have to continue sacrifiing lambs and doves - He gave us our final sacrifice that if we find ourselves in sin - that separation from God - that we too might be forgiven. HOWEVER to claim such a sacrifice you must first proclaim your loyalty and the Lordship to that God. One who believes not in God claims no such sacrifice to be made on his behalf and is therefore not purified through that sacrifice. Don't muddle up God's perfection with your inability to allow Holy Spirit to rightly divide the truth of God's Word to you.

 

[icedtea]

Either many go to hell forever, or Gods word is a lie.

 

[Rajni]

Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyone open the door. Another mistaken verse. Or it may mean something only a few realize evne though it sounds different.
Also all the verses where some are not saved, not in heaven, all mistakes too.

Hmmm... Here are some other "mistakes" corrected to reflect the salvation of only a few, according to organized relgion:

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[LeadWorship]

Welcome to the reality of taking verses from their contextual meaning. I won't go through those verse by verse. Myself and others have administered the truth which you don't accept. You alone will stand before Almighty one day and answer to Him. God bless you and may His truth guide you.

 

[Rajni]

Sorry ma'am, I don't live for a status - I live for my maker. It's not a matter of our socio-status after death, but the location at which we will spend eternity. I'd rather be in the presence of Almighty than to be separated from Him.

That's the status I was referring to. So you don't see any tangible benefit to having a relationship with the Lord now? You had stated that if everyone's going to heaven anyway, we could live any way we wanted to, remember? This sentiment suggests that the only real difference, the only real benefit, to be had in a relationship with Jesus is after death, and that merely to avoid "hell".

You forget what God did to those people in the old testament who opposed him, didn't you. You also, like many, have lost fact of the simple truth that God is the SAME, YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER. That same God is still my Majesty today.

How does this cancel out us loving Him because He first loved us?

You obviously don't know what sacrifices were used for in the old testament, because you surely wouldn't make this type of statement if you did. Sacrifices were offered up to be accepted by God. God gave his perfect sacrifice to us, so we don't have to continue sacrifiing lambs and doves - He gave us our final sacrifice that if we find ourselves in sin - that separation from God - that we too might be forgiven. HOWEVER to claim such a sacrifice you must first proclaim your loyalty and the Lordship to that God. One who believes not in God claims no such sacrifice to be made on his behalf and is therefore not purified through that sacrifice. Don't muddle up God's perfection with your inability to allow Holy Spirit to rightly divide the truth of God's Word to you.

Again, how does this cancel out the fact that God has the final say in all aspects of our lives? Let's not muddle up God's Sovereignty and Omnipotence with the inability to comprehend Who God is. He is God ... we are not.


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[Rajni]

Myself and others have administered the truth which you don't accept.

You have administered your understanding of the truth, yes. Thank you for doing so.


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[Rajni]

Welcome to the reality of taking verses from their contextual meaning.

It's quite simple, really. Either the Lord meant what He said the way those verses were originally written, or He didn't. I personally take them as they read originally, before Christian Partialism's attempts to redefine them, in the process watering down the message of His Power to save.


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[Joy]

John 3:16-18 say, 'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him /B] might be saved. He who believesin Him is not condemned; but He will does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 14:6 'Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me.

These are just two of many verses in Scripture which show the need for each individual to place his/her personal trust in Christ for Salvation.

 

[Rajni]

John 3:16-18 say, 'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him /B] might be saved. He who believesin Him is not condemned; but He will does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 14:6 'Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me.

These are just two of many verses in Scripture which show the need for each individual to place his/her personal trust in Christ for Salvation.

I agree, there are dozens of verses that link belief to salvation. I just don't write off those cases of nonbelief as being forever lost causes. One ray of hope I find is in 1 Timothy 2:4, where it says that God is the Savior all men, especially (not "exclusively") of those who believe.

Not everyone believes right now, but I don't take that to mean that unbelief is eternal. Besides, that would require me to do a level of judging that is really God's alone.


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[LeadWorship]

You had stated that if everyone's going to heaven anyway, we could live any way we wanted to, remember? This sentiment suggests that the only real difference, the only real benefit, to be had in a relationship with Jesus is after death, and that merely to avoid "hell".

Your words, not mine. We aren't talking about, in this thread, the benefits of being a child of God here and now, but IS EVERYONE GOING TO HEAVEN, to which you think "YES". By YOUR answer, you must believe that because if everyone IS going to heaven, then the reality is it doesn't matter if we want those "now" benefits here on earth or not - we'll get a room in the eternal mansion.

That's wrong on so many levels.

 

[LeadWorship]

1 Timothy 2: 1-6
1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.


Yes, God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth, so much that He paid the ransom - but guess what not all men WILL come to be saved and come to that knowledge. (Grats on some more out of context work) Yes one day EVERY MAN will know and EVERY KNEE will bow because the Glory of God and His Kingdom will be revealed, but by then it will be past "decision making" time. It will be "judgement time".

I won't be responding to you on this subject anymore - your mind is made up and only God can help you change that. God Bless.

 

[Rajni]

Your words, not mine.

See post #17.

We aren't talking about, in this thread, the benefits of being a child of God here and now,

Well, yes we were, in response to your statement in post #17.

but IS EVERYONE GOING TO HEAVEN,

As well as that, yes.

By YOUR answer, you must believe that because if everyone IS going to heaven, then the reality is it doesn't matter if we want those "now" benefits here on earth or not - we'll get a room in the eternal mansion.

My turn to say, "your words, not mine". I haven't had to wait until life after death to enjoy a relationship with Christ, so I wouldn't be saying, to quote you from post #17, "So let's live like hell and enjoy the ride because no matter what I'm going to heaven!!! WAHOOO!!!!!"

I won't be responding to you on this subject anymore - your mind is made up and only God can help you change that. God Bless.

God bless you too, and thanks again for your insights on this topic.

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[icedtea]

If everyone goes to heaven then the bible has so many lies that so many believe that we should discount it and salvation also!
Either its true (the bible) or all get saved. Both cannot be true.

 

[Rajni]

1 Timothy 2: 1-6
1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.


Yes, God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth, so much that He paid the ransom - but guess what not all men WILL come to be saved and come to that knowledge. (Grats on some more out of context work) Yes one day EVERY MAN will know and EVERY KNEE will bow because the Glory of God and His Kingdom will be revealed, but by then it will be past "decision making" time. It will be "judgement time".

I won't be responding to you on this subject anymore - your mind is made up and only God can help you change that. God Bless.

A more accurate rendering of that verse is "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior who will have (Greek: "ethelo") all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." It's not just passive wishful thinking on God's part, but something He actively intends to accomplish.


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[Rajni]

If everyone goes to heaven then the bible has so many lies that so many believe that we should discount it and salvation also!
Either its true (the bible) or all get saved. Both cannot be true.

That depends on how you've been taught to interpret the bible. I haven't tossed my bibles just because I now believe that God is 100% successful in His intended mission.

I simply reached a point where I was open to the possibility that my familiar ways of reading scripture just might be inaccurate.

In fact, it was a verse from the Bible itself that set me off in the direction of believing in the ultimate redemption of all: 1 Corinthians 15:22 (which I later discovered was only the tip of the iceberg, lol!)


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[LeadWorship]

See post #17.

Well, yes we were, in response to your statement in post #17.

As well as that, yes.

My turn to say, "your words, not mine". I haven't had to wait until life after death to enjoy a relationship with Christ, so I wouldn't be saying, to quote you from post #17, "So let's live like hell and enjoy the ride because no matter what I'm going to heaven!!! WAHOOO!!!!!"


God bless you too, and thanks again for your insights on this topic.

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LOL and that comment in post #17 was to be taken as my literal heart on the matter...

God bless

 

[Rajni]

LOL and that comment in post #17 was to be taken as my literal heart on the matter...

God bless

Well ... if it wasn't, why would you say it?

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[LeadWorship]

Well ... if it wasn't, why would you say it?

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Because it's what you are advocating. Sounds different when put that way doesn't it? According to your view, who cares what we do? "Sex feels good, so I'ma sex up everyone and thing I can imagine! I'll eat what I want, shoot what I want and drink what I want because it makes me feel good. God loves me, that's enough, because he loves me enough to spare my from eternal damnation - I can kill a few folks I don't like too. I'll do the world some justice and just berid of them. To what end? Oh I'll have a little punishment, but heck, I can live like I want and still get a piece of what those uppity neener neener christians are gonna get! "

Doesn't sound like the type of people my God would let reject Him then still allow them into His kingdom. I'd call that "biting the hand that feeds you".

 

[LeadWorship]

Out of curiosity, chaela, do you believe that all the various spiritual gifts (or charisms) listed in the New Testament (including but not limited to the manifestations gifts found in I Corinthians 12:8-10) are active in the Church today and desirable in the life of the individual believer, for the edification of the Body of Christ?

Thanks.