Is Calvinism a heresy?

[Derf]

I Corinthians 2:1 And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, 4 and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 9 but just as it is written,

“Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

I do not have any issue with God's Spirit actively engaging in the salvation of individuals - either now or in eternity.

Nor do I. But that doesn't mean we redefine faith as something God gives us rather than something we exercise. And nothing in that passage says we should.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Nor do I. But that doesn't mean we redefine faith as something God gives us rather than something we exercise. And nothing in that passage says we should.

Where does faith originate?

 

[Derf]

Where does faith originate?

Are we settled on what faith is? Before we move on to its source, we should agree on what it is, don't you think? I posited in a previous post that faith is an act of the will. Do you agree with that?

 

[Dan1988]

The book of Ephesians is addressed to the "faithful in Christ" - thus to better understand the book of Ephesians you can replace "us", "we" and "you" with the "faithful in Christ".

The principle of Ephesians 1:3 says that God has blessed us (i.e. the faithful in Christ) “with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” In other words, “every spiritual blessing” is for believing Christians, that is, those who are in Christ. So, if Irresistible Grace or Regeneration constituted a spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, then it would only be available for those who are “in Christ.” We are not blessed apart from Christ, but rather we are blessed “in Christ,” which is how God the Father honors His Son. The Father’s spiritual blessings for the bride of Christ necessarily blesses Christ Himself because the bride of Christ is in the body of Christ.

If Ephesians 1:3 contains the principle, then Ephesians 1:4 contains the example of that principle. The example here (of a spiritual blessing in Christ that Paul gives) is that God predestined those in Christ to stand holy and blameless before God, which is 1:4b, and Paul further describes this particular spiritual blessing for the church at Ephesians 5:27: “…that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.” Notice how closely this mirrors Ephesians 1:4b: “that we would be holy and blameless in his sight.” It becomes abundantly clear that Paul was speaking of the spiritual blessings that God predestined for “the church.”

Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love​

I was exposed to Calvinism in my youth. Years later I re-examined Calvinism and I don't see it well supported in scripture. On this forum, I see a lot of arguments for Calvinism based upon assumptions I don't share like the TULIP theological framework, opinion, or from a laundry list of scripture with no explanation (like the cut and pastes from @Maximar). I would like to see more in depth arguments from scripture.

Didn't you know that Jesus shares the glory with us that God, the Father, gave Him?

John 17:22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—​

I think you're drawing a long bow here. Whilst believers (the elect of God) receive blessings from God, we don't share in His glory at all. We are merely trophies of the Lord, we are nothing like Him whatsoever. The Lord Jesus Christ is Jehovah God, He is separate to His creation and He will never share His glory with anyone.

We are fallen sinner's, so all we deserve is eternal punishment in hell. There's no grounds to claim that we share in any of His glory, it's all about Him. He must increase and we must decrease. It's very dangerous to entertain the notion that fallen sinners have some kind of input to the work of salvation, which is clearly 100% of the Lord.

We don't share in God's glory, we just receive blessings as "those who were dead in our sins and trespasses". What claim can an enemy of God have in His glory. If a professing believer claims that they were saved because they obeyed the gospel message and responded by believing the gospel, then that's proclaiming the false gospel of "saved by works". The Bible is crystal clear that those who are saved, are saved by God's grace alone.

Can a dead man respond to the gospel message, in any way. The Arminian doctrine says, "yes a dead man can repent and follow Christ". Whilst Calvinists say, "a dead man can do nothing" and that is the Biblically correct position. The Arminian view can only be defended, if one cherry picks the Bible and twist those passages which expose the Arminian doctrine.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Are we settled on what faith is? Before we move on to its source, we should agree on what it is, don't you think? I posited in a previous post that faith is an act of the will. Do you agree with that?

No. Trust is an act of the will and, at least in English, is both verb and noun.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think you're drawing a long bow here. Whilst believers (the elect of God) receive blessings from God, we don't share in His glory at all. We are merely trophies of the Lord, we are nothing like Him whatsoever. The Lord Jesus Christ is Jehovah God, He is separate to His creation and He will never share His glory with anyone.

We are fallen sinner's, so all we deserve is eternal punishment in hell. There's no grounds to claim that we share in any of His glory, it's all about Him. He must increase and we must decrease. It's very dangerous to entertain the notion that fallen sinners have some kind of input to the work of salvation, which is clearly 100% of the Lord.

We don't share in God's glory, we just receive blessings as "those who were dead in our sins and trespasses". What claim can an enemy of God have in His glory. If a professing believer claims that they were saved because they obeyed the gospel message and responded by believing the gospel, then that's proclaiming the false gospel of "saved by works". The Bible is crystal clear that those who are saved, are saved by God's grace alone.

Can a dead man respond to the gospel message, in any way. The Arminian doctrine says, "yes a dead man can repent and follow Christ". Whilst Calvinists say, "a dead man can do nothing" and that is the Biblically correct position. The Arminian view can only be defended, if one cherry picks the Bible and twist those passages which expose the Arminian doctrine.

A similar argument that I have encountered is the analogy of people with sheep and goats (cf. Matthew 25). Calvinists maintain that God has created both sheep and goats and, as such, both their natures and destiny have been determined. Arminians, on the other hand, maintain that every person is born as a goat, but when they accept Christ they are miraculously transformed into sheep.

 

[Derf]

I think you're drawing a long bow here. Whilst believers (the elect of God) receive blessings from God, we don't share in His glory at all. We are merely trophies of the Lord, we are nothing like Him whatsoever. The Lord Jesus Christ is Jehovah God, He is separate to His creation and He will never share His glory with anyone.

I dont think that's true. If marriage makes a man and woman "one flesh", and marriage is a picture of Christ and His church, then wouldn't the bridegroom share everything with His bride?

We are fallen sinner's, so all we deserve is eternal punishment in hell.

Well, the original punisment was "death", defined as Adam returning to the dust, not "eternal punishment in hell", which is defined as "second death". A second death sounds like double jeopardy, unless we commit a second grievance.

There's no grounds to claim that we share in any of His glory, it's all about Him. He must increase and we must decrease. It's very dangerous to entertain the notion that fallen sinners have some kind of input to the work of salvation, which is clearly 100% of the Lord.

Sure, but what is the purpose of salvation? To live again like we already were living?

We don't share in God's glory, we just receive blessings as "those who were dead in our sins and trespasses".

I thought we receive blessings as fellow heirs with Christ.

What claim can an enemy of God have in His glory.

No longer enemies, remember.

If a professing believer claims that they were saved because they obeyed the gospel message and responded by believing the gospel, then that's proclaiming the false gospel of "saved by works". The Bible is crystal clear that those who are saved, are saved by God's grace alone.

Yes, and that we believe in God's grace.

Can a dead man respond to the gospel message, in any way. The Arminian doctrine says, "yes a dead man can repent and follow Christ".

I dont think that fairly represents Arminius.

Whilst Calvinists say, "a dead man can do nothing" and that is the Biblically correct position. The Arminian view can only be defended, if one cherry picks the Bible and twist those passages which expose the Arminian doctrine.

Calvinism isn't without its picked cherries, as you can see from the above.

 

[Derf]

No. Trust is an act of the will and, at least in English, is both verb and noun.

Is not "act" in your sentence a noun? And faith is a noun? So why can't faith be an act of the will?

Still, if you accept "trust" as the thing we do willingly, and the Greek word root for faith is the same as for trust, then you are agreeing that exercising faith is an act of the will.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Is not "act" in your sentence a noun? And faith is a noun? So why can't faith be an act of the will?

Still, if you accept "trust" as the thing we do willingly, and the Greek word root for faith is the same as for trust, then you are agreeing that exercising faith is an act of the will.

I answered your direct question with a direct answer and regret that I chose to follow it with an explanation. It is quite evident that we will not agree on a working definition of faith.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

I think you're drawing a long bow here. Whilst believers (the elect of God) receive blessings from God, we don't share in His glory at all. We are merely trophies of the Lord, we are nothing like Him whatsoever. The Lord Jesus Christ is Jehovah God, He is separate to His creation and He will never share His glory with anyone.

We are fallen sinner's, so all we deserve is eternal punishment in hell. There's no grounds to claim that we share in any of His glory, it's all about Him. He must increase and we must decrease. It's very dangerous to entertain the notion that fallen sinners have some kind of input to the work of salvation, which is clearly 100% of the Lord.

We don't share in God's glory, we just receive blessings as "those who were dead in our sins and trespasses". What claim can an enemy of God have in His glory. If a professing believer claims that they were saved because they obeyed the gospel message and responded by believing the gospel, then that's proclaiming the false gospel of "saved by works". The Bible is crystal clear that those who are saved, are saved by God's grace alone.

Can a dead man respond to the gospel message, in any way. The Arminian doctrine says, "yes a dead man can repent and follow Christ". Whilst Calvinists say, "a dead man can do nothing" and that is the Biblically correct position. The Arminian view can only be defended, if one cherry picks the Bible and twist those passages which expose the Arminian doctrine.

What about this? It’s clearly about salvation:

John 5:24–27 (NKJV): 24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

 

[Derf]

I answered your direct question with a direct answer and regret that I chose to follow it with an explanation. It is quite evident that we will not agree on a working definition of faith.

I hope you won't give up so quickly. I believe I described faith, but you only said what it was not. Can you give me your definition of faith? And why is it different from "trust" (noun)? Are there biblical passages using trust (verb) that can't be restated using "have faith"?

 

[JLB777]

I hope you won't give up so quickly. I believe I described faith, but you only said what it was not. Can you give me your definition of faith? And why is it different from "trust" (noun)? Are there biblical passages using trust (verb) that can't be restated using "have faith"?

Faith is a noun.


Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1


Faith operates by a law, or “principle”.


Trust is a verb —

And again:
“I will put My trust in Him.”
And again:
“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
Hebrews 2:13

Strong's G3982 - peithō — verb​

1. persuade
   1. to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe
   2. to make friends of, to win one's favour, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one
   3. to tranquillise
   4. to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something
2. be persuaded
   1. to be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing
      1. to believe
      2. to be persuaded of a thing concerning a person
   2. to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with
3. to trust, have confidence, be confident

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hebrews 12:2 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[QvQ]

So a person manufactures faith?
There is some power within a person separate from God, created by some mysterious "other" or simply by the will or reason of that person that prompts a person to believe? Then all we need to do is find out how to trigger that, yes?
It is a secular understanding that man can be "learned" to the proper thought or "reasoned" into the right thinking.
However, if a person is convinced of God (Faith) as faith needs an object then that person is certain of the actual reality of God. That is faith.
God is not a thought or a myth or an intellectual concept.
God is a reality that can be trusted.

 

[Gary K]

Nor do I. But that doesn't mean we redefine faith as something God gives us rather than something we exercise. And nothing in that passage says we should.

On this you're mistaken, Derf, according to scripture.

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[Derf]

On this you're mistaken, Derf, according to scripture.

You might be right, Gary, and I might have quite the uphill climb to convince anyone in this, but it seems to me that the context is suggesting something different.

The verse succeeding your citation explains:
Romans 12:4 KJV — For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

Surely unbelievers don't have any "office" in the church. So Paul is talking about what comes after conversion.

The context is referring not to saving faith, but gifts of the Spirit. And those gifts are not all given to everyone in the same measure. Here's vs 6:
Romans 12:6 KJV — Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

How does one prophecy according to the proportion of faith? Is Paul telling unbelievers to prophecy only a little because He hasn't given them enough faith to believe? Of course not. Not does it make sense that Christians with the gift of prophecy should only prophecy only a little because God hasn't given them enough faith to exercise their gift fully.

Rather, it seems like Paul is exhorting the believers to exercise the gifts they have been given, and not take over other believers' "offices", so that everyone will be able to do everything needed in the body.

 

[Gary K]

You might be right, Gary, and I might have quite the uphill climb to convince anyone in this, but it seems to me that the context is suggesting something different.

The verse succeeding your citation explains:
Romans 12:4 KJV — For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

Surely unbelievers don't have any "office" in the church. So Paul is talking about what comes after conversion.

The context is referring not to saving faith, but gifts of the Spirit. And those gifts are not all given to everyone in the same measure. Here's vs 6:
Romans 12:6 KJV — Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

How does one prophecy according to the proportion of faith? Is Paul telling unbelievers to prophecy only a little because He hasn't given them enough faith to believe? Of course not. Not does it make sense that Christians with the gift of prophecy should only prophecy only a little because God hasn't given them enough faith to exercise their gift fully.

Rather, it seems like Paul is exhorting the believers to exercise the gifts they have been given, and not take over other believers' "offices", so that everyone will be able to do everything needed in the body.

I don't have a problem with what you said other than Paul says every man has been given a measure of faith. Your argument reminds me of the Calvinist's argument that all doesn't mean all.

 

[QvQ]

don't have a problem with what you said other than Paul says every man has been given a measure of faith. Your argument reminds me of the Calvinist's argument that all doesn't mean all

I agree with Derf that the verse applies to believers only. Every man has not been given a measure of faith as non-believers have not.

 

[Gary K]

I agree with Derf that the verse applies to believers only. Every man has not been given a measure of faith as non-believers have not.

Why? The wording is plain. Every man is given a measure of faith.

 

[Gary K]

I agree with Derf that the verse applies to believers only. Every man has not been given a measure of faith as non-believers have not.

Here is another text that uses the same phrase.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Did Jesus come to save every one on earth? Or did He come just to save those who the Calvinists' say were chosen?