Is Calvinism a heresy?

[Xeno.of.athens]

Please post the scriptures that say we are saved by sovereign election.

Cannot be done, but one can post the verse from Ephesians - "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them." Ephesians 2:4-10

Yet even that quote is telling us that God saves by means of God's grace extended to his people. It is not the grace that causes salvation, it is God who causes and he applies or grants the gift by means of grace.

 

[Derf]

I'll try again since you didn't see my last attempt to say hi.

Hi Gary. I had already "liked" your previous attempt. Welcome to the discussion.

 

[Gary K]

He'll post them all right. But it will just be a list with no discussion about WHY they relate to sovereign election. If you push him on it, he'll just say you are not able to believe it because He hasn't changed you (enough) yet, or something like that.

Well, I'm hurt as you couldn't take enough time to say hi. I tried PMing you but you don't accept PMs here.

 

[Derf]

Well, I'm hurt as you couldn't take enough time to say hi. I tried PMing you but you don't accept PMs here.

Don't be. It looks bad on you

 

[Gary K]

Don't be. It looks bad on you

Sorry. I'm still hurt by you not taking the time to say hi.

Do you realize I'm still locked out of the other site by one of the admins? I can log in so I don't appear banned but can do nothing else.

 

[Derf]

Sorry. I'm still hurt by you not taking the time to say hi.

Hi. I'm not trying to ignore you, but I don't usually like to engage in a lot of small talk in someone else's thread. I dont know what to think about the pm function. I didn't disable it intentionally, and I don't see how to turn it on.

Do you realize I'm still locked out of the other site by one of the admins? I can log in so I don't appear banned but can do nothing else.

Do you want me to give them a message?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I don't usually like to engage in a lot of small talk in someone else's thread.

Feel free, for a while, it is interesting

 

[maxamir]

I would disagree with you because Calvin disagrees with you. He believed in righteousness by faith as did all the Reformers of his day.



This is a partial quote from his commentary on Galatians 5: 22-26.

The Reformers all believed in the Five Solas which are based upon sovereign grace.

Righteousness comes by grace (Rom 3:24) through faith (Rom 4:13) in the blood of Jesus Christ (Rom 5:9).

Any mention of justification by faith is in comparison and opposition to a supposed justification by works.

 

[maxamir]

Please post the scriptures that say we are saved by sovereign election.

God is Sovereign Exo 15:18; 1Chr 29:11-12; 2Chr 20:6; Psa 22:28

1. He exercises that sovereignty in actively ordaining everything Deu 32:39; 1Sam 2:6-8; Job 9:12; Job 12:6-10; Psa 33:11; Psa 115:3; Psa 135:6; Isa 14:24; Isa 45:7; Act 15:18; Eph 1:11
   • Including matters of “chance” Pro 16:33; 1Ki 22:20, 34, 37
   • The wicked actions of men Gen 45:5; Gen 50:20; Exo 4:21; Jdg 14:1-4; Psa 76:10; Pro 16:4; Isa 44:28; Amos 3:6; Act 2:22-23; Act 4:27-28
   • The actions of evil spirits 1Sam 16:14-16; 1Ki 22:19-23; 1Chr 21:1/2Sam 24:1
   • The good actions of men John 15:16; Eph 2:10; Phi 2:12-13
   • The actions of good angels Psa 103:20; Psa 104:4
   • The actions of animals Num 22:28; 1Ki 17:4; Psa 29:9; Jer 8:7; Eze 32:4; Dan 6:22
   • The operations of all creation Gen 8:22; Psa 104:5-10; Psa 104:13-14; Psa 104:19-20; Mark 4:39
2. Man is not permitted to question his sovereign acts Job 33:12-13; Isa 29:16; Isa 45:9-10; Mat 20:1-16; Rom 9:19-24

God elects [i.e. chooses, predestines, foreordains]

1. His angels 1Tim 5:21
2. His peculiar people, Israel Exo 6:7; Deu 7:6-8; Deu 10:14-15; Psa 33:12; Isa 43:20-21
3. Individuals to salvation Psa 65:4; Mat 24:24; John 6:37; John 15:16; Act 13:48; Rom 8:28-30; Rom 9:10-24; Rom 11:5-7; Eph 1:3-6; Eph 1:11-12; 1The 1:4; 1The 5:9; 2The 2:13-14
4. Individuals to condemnation Exo 4:21; Rom 9:13; Rom 9:17-18; Rom 9:21-22; 1Pet 2:8

His motivation in election

1. His own good pleasure Eph 1:5; 2Tim 1:9
2. The display of his glory Isa 43:6-7; Rom 9:22-24; 1Cor 1:27-31; Eph 2:4-7; Pro 16:4
3. His special love Deu 7:6-8; 2The 2:13
4. His foreknowledge Rom 8:29; 1Pet 1:2
   • Which means his special love Jer 1:5; Amos 3:2; Mat 7:22-23; 1Cor 8:3; 2Tim 2:19; 1Pet 1:20
   • But not:
   • Any good [nobility, wisdom, power, choice, seeking] he foresees in anyone Deu 7:7; Rom 9:11-13; Rom 9:16; Rom 10:20; 1Cor 1:27-29; 1Cor 4:7; 2Tim 1:9

 

[JLB777]

God is Sovereign Exo 15:18; 1Chr 29:11-12; 2Chr 20:6; Psa 22:28

1. He exercises that sovereignty in actively ordaining everything Deu 32:39; 1Sam 2:6-8; Job 9:12; Job 12:6-10; Psa 33:11; Psa 115:3; Psa 135:6; Isa 14:24; Isa 45:7; Act 15:18; Eph 1:11
   • Including matters of “chance” Pro 16:33; 1Ki 22:20, 34, 37
   • The wicked actions of men Gen 45:5; Gen 50:20; Exo 4:21; Jdg 14:1-4; Psa 76:10; Pro 16:4; Isa 44:28; Amos 3:6; Act 2:22-23; Act 4:27-28
   • The actions of evil spirits 1Sam 16:14-16; 1Ki 22:19-23; 1Chr 21:1/2Sam 24:1
   • The good actions of men John 15:16; Eph 2:10; Phi 2:12-13
   • The actions of good angels Psa 103:20; Psa 104:4
   • The actions of animals Num 22:28; 1Ki 17:4; Psa 29:9; Jer 8:7; Eze 32:4; Dan 6:22
   • The operations of all creation Gen 8:22; Psa 104:5-10; Psa 104:13-14; Psa 104:19-20; Mark 4:39
2. Man is not permitted to question his sovereign acts Job 33:12-13; Isa 29:16; Isa 45:9-10; Mat 20:1-16; Rom 9:19-24

God elects [i.e. chooses, predestines, foreordains]

1. His angels 1Tim 5:21
2. His peculiar people, Israel Exo 6:7; Deu 7:6-8; Deu 10:14-15; Psa 33:12; Isa 43:20-21
3. Individuals to salvation Psa 65:4; Mat 24:24; John 6:37; John 15:16; Act 13:48; Rom 8:28-30; Rom 9:10-24; Rom 11:5-7; Eph 1:3-6; Eph 1:11-12; 1The 1:4; 1The 5:9; 2The 2:13-14
4. Individuals to condemnation Exo 4:21; Rom 9:13; Rom 9:17-18; Rom 9:21-22; 1Pet 2:8

His motivation in election

1. His own good pleasure Eph 1:5; 2Tim 1:9
2. The display of his glory Isa 43:6-7; Rom 9:22-24; 1Cor 1:27-31; Eph 2:4-7; Pro 16:4
3. His special love Deu 7:6-8; 2The 2:13
4. His foreknowledge Rom 8:29; 1Pet 1:2
   • Which means his special love Jer 1:5; Amos 3:2; Mat 7:22-23; 1Cor 8:3; 2Tim 2:19; 1Pet 1:20
   • But not:
   • Any good [nobility, wisdom, power, choice, seeking] he foresees in anyone Deu 7:7; Rom 9:11-13; Rom 9:16; Rom 10:20; 1Cor 1:27-29; 1Cor 4:7; 2Tim 1:9

Not one single verse in this post!

Not even one.

You have only stated your opinion and tagged your opinion with a scripture address, with out ever even posting one single scripture!


Why?


Because the truth is: There is no such scripture in the Bible that says … because they were sovereignly ordained to eternal life.



Here is what the truth is, and let this be an example of what quoting a scripture is.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath. Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

Please sir, turn away from promoting false doctrine before it’s too late… Before God Himself gives you over to a reprobate mind.






JLB

 

[The Liturgist]

Once again, I feel compelled to chime in to say no, Calvinism is not heresy. I did once subscribe to it; this is no longer the case, but I still respect it. Some Calvinists do subscribe to theological errors like iconoclasm, including John Calvin himself, but since the 19th century there have been many Calvinists who reject iconoclasm, and thus many Presbyterian and Congregationalist churches built in the mid 19th century and early 20th century have beautiful stained glass windows, frescoes and other iconography. But this problem does not make Calvinism heretical.

 

[FenderTL5]

Once again, I feel compelled to chime in to say no, Calvinism is not heresy. I did once subscribe to it; this is no longer the case, but I still respect it. Some Calvinists do subscribe to theological errors like iconoclasm, including John Calvin himself, but since the 19th century there have been many Calvinists who reject iconoclasm, and thus many Presbyterian and Congregationalist churches built in the mid 19th century and early 20th century have beautiful stained glass windows, frescoes and other iconography. But this problem does not make Calvinism heretical.

I'm in no position to declare any doctrine heretical or not. That's way above my pay-grade so to speak.
I'm not arguing against your point, again, not my place. However, if we look at the T.U.L.I.P. as being Calvinism, all five petals originate in medieval innovation and run amiss to the Ancient Christian Faith and Orthodox Christianity.

 

[The Liturgist]

I'm in no position to declare any doctrine heretical or not. That's way above my pay-grade so to speak.
I'm not arguing against your point, again, not my place. However, if we look at the T.U.L.I.P. as being Calvinism, all five petals run amiss to the Ancient Christian Faith and Orthodox Christianity.

The thing about TULIP however is that it is not Calvinism, in that John Calvin did not propose it, although it was partially based on his theology. Rather TULIP originated at the Synod of Dort. Our friend @hedrick recently told me that Calvin had a belief very similar to Theosis, which I have been able to verify. That said it is true that the Synod of Dositheus, which was a local synod convened by the Patriarch of Jerusalem on the occasion of the consecration of the Church of the Nativity, and not an ecumenical council, did anathematize Calvinism as a heresy and did brand John Calvin an heresiarch, but it was responding primarily to the incident involving Ecumenical Patriarch Cyril Lukaris allegedly writing letters embracing the Reformed faith; if I recall the Synod decided these letters were forgeries. As is well known, Patriarch Cyril was assasinated at the orders of the Sultan, one of many Christian bishops to be murdered under Turkocratia.

I will also say for the record that I am of the opinion that Calvinism disagrees with the consensus patrum. There clearly were some monergists in the early church, aside from Pelagians and Universalists, who are also monergists but of a radically different form, because otherwise there would have been no reason for the Fifth Ecumenical Council to anathematize monergism.

I will also say that I disagree with Calvinism. However, I do not think it rises to the level of a heresy like Nestorianism or Arianism or Gnosticism.

Interestingly, John Calvin and the early Calvinists were very interested in Patristics and Church Tradition. The problems with Calvinism today as I see it are the Neo-Orthodoxy of Karl Barth, and to a more severe degree, the Fundamentalist movement that emerged in the early 20th century, since these de-emphasize or outright reject Patristics and Church Tradition. Worse, the Fundamentalists in many cases embrace anti-intellectualism, making reasoning with them very challenging. There are exceptions, such as Dr. Albert Mohler, who I greatly admire, who is arguably a fundamentalist, albeit an educated one, conversant in Patristics among other things.

 

[Derf]

I will also say that I disagree with Calvinism. However, I do not think it rises to the level of a heresy like Nestorianism or Arianism or Gnosticism.

That's a relief. Calvinism is only heresy-lite.

 

[concretecamper]

The Catholic Church does not consider Calvinism, a theology developed by John Calvin in the 16th century, to be heretical.

Ugh, of course it does.

 

[maxamir]

Not one single verse in this post!

Not even one.

You have only stated your opinion and tagged your opinion with a scripture address, with out ever even posting one single scripture!


Why?


Because the truth is: There is no such scripture in the Bible that says … because they were sovereignly ordained to eternal life.



Here is what the truth is, and let this be an example of what quoting a scripture is.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath. Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

Please sir, turn away from promoting false doctrine before it’s too late… Before God Himself gives you over to a reprobate mind.






JLB

I take it you are too lazy to look up each verse mentioned and I can not quote them all in full due to the word limitations to each post here, so I have given you a link below where you can read the verses in full which confirm Acts 13:48, "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

Please do not waste my time any longer if you can't be bothered to read them.

DOCTRINES OF GRACE – CATEGORIZED SCRIPTURE LIST

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Once again, I feel compelled to chime in to say no, Calvinism is not heresy. I did once subscribe to it; this is no longer the case, but I still respect it. Some Calvinists do subscribe to theological errors like iconoclasm, including John Calvin himself, but since the 19th century there have been many Calvinists who reject iconoclasm, and thus many Presbyterian and Congregationalist churches built in the mid 19th century and early 20th century have beautiful stained glass windows, frescoes and other iconography. But this problem does not make Calvinism heretical.

Some of the doctrines of Calvinism are definitely erroneous.

 

[JLB777]

I take it you are too lazy to look up each verse mentioned and I can not quote them all in full due to the word limitations to each post here, so I have given you a link below where you can read the verses in full which confirm Acts 13:48, "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

Please do not waste my time any longer if you can't be bothered to read them.

DOCTRINES OF GRACE – CATEGORIZED SCRIPTURE LIST

No you mis-take!

Your too lazy, at best, to post an actual scripture.


Because the truth is: There is no such scripture in the Bible that says … because they were sovereignly ordained to eternal life.



Here is what the truth is, and let this be an example of what quoting a scripture is.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath. Romans 2:6-8

Read carefully to see what the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul indicates who will receive eternal life.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

Jesus says it this way —


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Please sir, turn away from promoting false doctrine and deceiving unlearned people before it’s too late… Before God Himself gives you over to a reprobate mind.





JLB

 

[Derf]

No you mis-take!

Your too lazy, at best, to post an actual scripture.


Because the truth is: There is no such scripture in the Bible that says … because they were sovereignly ordained to eternal life.



Here is what the truth is, and let this be an example of what quoting a scripture is.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath. Romans 2:6-8

Read carefully to see what the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul indicates who will receive eternal life.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

Jesus says it this way —


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Please sir, turn away from promoting false doctrine and deceiving unlearned people before it’s too late… Before God Himself gives you over to a reprobate mind.





JLB

Wait a second. You asked for one reference, and @maxamir, after a false start, gave you that single reference, quoted as you asked. Please do him the courtesy of addressing his appropriate answer.

 

[JLB777]

Wait a second. You asked for one reference, and @maxamir, after a false start, gave you that single reference, quoted as you asked. Please do him the courtesy of addressing his appropriate answer.

Acts 13:48, "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us:
I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region.
Acts 13:46-49


Paul and Barnabas were sent to that region with the Gospel message of Jesus Christ, to proclaim the way of salvation to them. Some rejected it, and some received it.


No one is ever saved apart from believing the Gospel, the word, the message of Jesus Christ.


If a group of people were “appointed” to receive eternal life, then obviously they don’t have eternal life yet. First they must hear the Gospel, and then believe it, in order to receive the intended eternal life.


God intends that the whole world should receive eternal life through His Son, however there must be those willing to go and preach the good news, like Paul and Barnabas did.


You would understand this if you read the context and not just lifting one verse out f context.


Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away. So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. Acts 13:1-4




Calvinism teaches a person is first saved, (somehow without ever hearing and believing the Gospel; which is a Christ-less salvation) then they can believe the Gospel.


Obviously these people whom Paul and Barnabas were sent to heard the Gospel then they believed. Being appointed to eternal life means it is appointed for you to hear the Good News of Jesus Christ. Those who believe are saved, those who do n’t believe are damned.

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16



JLB