Is belief enough to be saved?

[listed]

Surely we do what God asks because he asks them of us rather than that they accomplish anything.

But is God asking us to do the works of the law or the works of what - charity such as giving a cup of water or clothing the naked isn't this what Jesus said the Christians do? Isn't that much more in line with what James said? Are good works mentioned in Eph 2:10 keeping the law?

 

[listed]

I think there's a purpose to things under heaven. In this case Jesus actually says that he doesn't know those who didn't feed the hungry and clothe the naked.

 

[B-74]

But is God asking us to do the works of the law or the works of what - charity such as giving a cup of water or clothing the naked isn't this what Jesus said the Christians do? Isn't that much more in line with what James said? Are good works mentioned in Eph 2:10 keeping the law?

Didn't the same God that said love one another also say abstain from evil deeds?

Whats does it profit us to do good works of charity for man if we don't also do them for God? In order to abide in the Lord don't we need to be obedient in all that God has commanded we do? Only by abiding in Him can we hope for Him to abide in us. Right?

 

[Lindas Place]

Jesus goes on to say….Salvation is by grace, through faith, not by works. Which is good news! Since works can’t save… Jesus made a way.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

 

[God's Word]

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Lindas Place:

Again, keep reading:

Ephesians 2:9-10

"Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS, WHICH GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM."

Yes, the "works of the law" cannot save anyone. IOW, we need to fully rely on Christ's atonement provided for us through His death, burial, resurrection from the dead and ascension to the right hand of the Father in order to be born again. What then? What happens after this new birth? God fully expects for us to do the good works which He foreordained that we should walk in. Isn't this so?

Romans 11:29
for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

If I am saved by grace, through faith - a gift of God, and God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.......Salvation cannot be lost.

Oh, please. Romans 11:29 has absolutely nothing to do with "eternal security". In fact (and it is a fact, whether or not you or anybody else likes it), if we back up just a handful of verses, then we read:

Romans 11:19-22

"Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

Waving what I previously called "the magic wand" (pulling verses out of context and using them to "ward off' other verses) won't make such truths go away.

 

[Lindas Place]

Lindas Place:

Again, keep reading:

Ephesians 2:9-10

"Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS, WHICH GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM."

Yes, the "works of the law" can not save anyone. IOW, we need to fully rely on Christ's atonement provided for us through His death, burial, resurrection from the dead and ascension to the right hand of the Father in order to be born again. What then? What happens after this new birth? God fully expects for us to do the good works which He foreordained that we should walk in. Isn't this so?



Oh, please. Romans 11:29 has absolutely nothing to do with "eternal security". In fact (and it is a fact, whether or not you or anybody else likes it), if we back up just a handful of verses, then we read:

Romans 11:19-22

"Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

Waving what I previously called "the magic wand" (pulling verses out of context and using them to "ward off' other verses) won't make such truths go away.

Waving what I previously called "the magic wand" (pulling verses out of context and using them to "ward off' other verses) won't make such truths go away.


Agree and that is exactly what you are doing... but it does not make the verse's I quoted go away... and there are no contradictions...

 

[God's Word]

Agree and that is exactly what you are doing... but it does not make the verse's I quoted go away... and there are no contradictions...

Not only am I not doing any such thing, but I have no need to, either. There's no contrast in what I posted in the least. Again, the works of the law cannot save us, but we have definitely been saved unto good works which God foreordained that we should walk in them. The text is plain enough...for those who don't avoid it.

 

[Lion King]

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Romans 11:29
for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

If I am saved by grace, through faith - a gift of God, and God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.......Salvation cannot be lost.

I simply don't understand why some people keep using Romans 11:28-29 to justify OSAS?

"Concerning the gospel they are enemies [Israel] for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:28-29

Was this not said to the physical descendants of Israel? Yet, time and time again the LORD destroyed the children of Israel who strayed from the path, and committed all sorts of terrible acts against the LORD. THERE IS A LESSON TO BE LEARNED FROM THE HISTORY OF ISRAEL.


Warnings From Israel’s History

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. 1 Corinthians 10:1-15

 

[B-74]

Waving what I previously called "the magic wand" (pulling verses out of context and using them to "ward off' other verses) won't make such truths go away.


Agree and that is exactly what you are doing... but it does not make the verse's I quoted go away... and there are no contradictions...

We are not saved by works, but without them our faith is dead, and only true faith can save us. Works won't save us, but without them we have no faith. Both are true. Neither is out of context.

 

[Lindas Place]

Can eternal life be temporary?

Some argue that eternal life does not begin until heaven. That contradicts the words of Jesus which states that he who believeth on the Son of God HAS eternal life. John 3:36

Jesus' definition of eternal life in John 17:2-3

2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

That throws an entirely different light on things, doesn't it?

 

[God's Word]

I simply don't understand why some people keep using Romans 11:28-29 to justify OSAS?

"Concerning the gospel they are enemies [Israel] for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:28-29

Was this not said to the physical descendants of Israel? Yet, time and time again the LORD destroyed the children of Israel who strayed from the path, and committed all sorts of terrible acts against the LORD. THERE IS A LESSON TO BE LEARNED FROM THE HISTORY OF ISRAEL.


Warnings From Israel’s History

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. 1 Corinthians 10:1-15

Amen.

 

[God's Word]

I simply don't understand why some people keep using Romans 11:28-29 to justify OSAS?

Desperation.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Jesus goes on to say….Salvation is by grace, through faith, not by works. Which is good news! Since works can’t save… Jesus made a way.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Amen, sister.

 

[B-74]

Can eternal life be temporary?

Some argue that eternal life does not begin until heaven. That contradicts the words of Jesus which states that he who believeth on the Son of God HAS eternal life. John 3:36


That throws an entirely different light on things, doesn't it?

What light does Mathew Chapter 25 and 7 throw on all this?

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Can eternal life be temporary?

Some argue that eternal life does not begin until heaven. That contradicts the words of Jesus which states that he who believeth on the Son of God HAS eternal life. John 3:36

Jesus' definition of eternal life in John 17:2-3

2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

That throws an entirely different light on things, doesn't it?

Amen.

If this thread turns into a debate over OSAS, it might get closed down for being off-topic.

This thread isn't another attack on the doctrine of eternal security is it?

 

[Frogster]

But is God asking us to do the works of the law or the works of what - charity such as giving a cup of water or clothing the naked isn't this what Jesus said the Christians do? Isn't that much more in line with what James said? Are good works mentioned in Eph 2:10 keeping the law?

good point.

 

[Lindas Place]

Desperation.

People who know they have eternal life are not desperate.... if anything I would think those who are trusting in their works to keep them saved would be desperate... I know I would, if salvation depended on my righteousness, my acts.... even King David knew better than that...

I will come and proclaim your mighty acts, O Sovereign LORD; I will proclaim your righteousness, yours alone. Psalm 71:16

 

[Frogster]

Not only am I not doing any such thing, but I have no need to, either. There's no contrast in what I posted in the least. Again, the works of the law cannot save us, but we have definitely been saved unto good works which God foreordained that we should walk in them. The text is plain enough...for those who don't avoid it.

just out of curiousity. What happens to a person if they don't do works? And what works are you speaking of, what is the list? Thanks.

 

[B-74]

James teaching about faith without works being dead agrees with Jesus teaching in Mathew 25 and 7.

Why won't we admit this?

And Paul hardly teaches against good works, he only teaches against boasting in them, that's all.

 

[Lindas Place]

What light does Mathew Chapter 25 and 7 throw on all this?

that we should be grateful that Jesus died for our sins. that salvation is by grace, through faith, no longer by works...

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.