Is belief enough to be saved?

[Montalban]

God asking us to do what our changed natures would require is not a 'proof' to unbelievers because that proof would be what we would do by our changed natures!

Some people have this around the wrong way.

That argument goes: An unbeliever is moved by God asking us to do what we would already do by our changed nature (that is, God asking us to do something superfluous would inspire an unbeliever!).

 

[Rick Otto]

The issue is only about what such works accomplish.

Thank you. And as such, motivation is accessory before the fact.

 

[Montalban]

If works aren't about accomplishment then God's asking us to do meaningless works

 

[Keachian]

If works aren't about accomplishment then God's asking us to do meaningless works

Surely we do what God asks because he asks them of us rather than that they accomplish anything.

 

[Keachian]

I'd also say that the thing that doing God's will most does is temper this sinful nature of ours and latch ourselves to Christ which in itself is a marvel which requires grace.

 

[Montalban]

Surely we do what God asks because he asks them of us rather than that they accomplish anything.

I think there's a purpose to things under heaven. In this case Jesus actually says that he doesn't know those who didn't feed the hungry and clothe the naked.

 

[wayseer]

If works aren't about accomplishment then God's asking us to do meaningless works

God does not 'call' us to do anything. That is a lie put about by the Church.

God 'asks' us to love as he loves. Some demonstrate that love in 'work' but that is their call.

 

[Lion King]

They are not a work what's so hard to understand a work would be a physical act. Like me saying I am going to heaven for feeding the poor. Please go back through all my post I have asked you to answer questions and explain your view of the Scripture.

I have already answered your posts with numerous Scriptures that fully support my position, brother. If we are going to have a meaningful discussion, it would be better if you also provide Scripture for what you believe, instead of merely giving your opinions on the matter (without the necessary Scriptures to support your argument).

So far you have only stated you believe love is a work along with hope and faith. And state you can earn your way to heaven.

Forgive me, but where have I said that we earn our own way into the Kingdom of God?

Faith in Christ is the only way to heaven and its not a work. I be explained this in other post and your only answer to every thing I have said is faith is a work. As far as I can tell we are going nowhere. The Scripture is clear on this matter and I feel this is my stopping point. Go back to my other post with the questions and study it.

Again; Faith, Hope and Love are works of God- It is the LORD, living in you, who doing His work. Love comes from the LORD (1 John 4:7) and all those who have love, have the LORD living in them, doing His work (feeding the hungry, defending the oppressed etc). That is God working through us: this is what Jesus Christ meant when He said that if we do not remain in Him we will not produce any fruit; for apart from Him, we can do NOTHING! All glory be to God!

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:28-29

_ _ _ _ _

Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. John 14:8-14

But telling people their salvatio has to do with their works is leading them astray. We are called to do good works. Not saved by them

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” Luke 10:25-28


Everyone will be judged according to their WORKS at judgement day (Romans 2:5-11), and blessed are the merciful for they will be shown mercy. If we have faith in Jesus Christ and keep His commands (love), we will have eternal life. That is the promise Jesus Christ gave to me!

 

[Keachian]

I think there's a purpose to things under heaven. In this case Jesus actually says that he doesn't know those who didn't feed the hungry and clothe the naked.

Yes there are often reasons behind us doing things, but to set our own glorification, that of us gaining heaven by our actions or shunning hell by our actions is overreaching what we can accomplish. The only thing I can think to do is bring glory to God, renouncing self. The end of God is not the glory of man, rather the end of man is the Glory of God!

 

[Lion King]

It looks like the mistake you're making is to think that anyone holds that doing works of mercy, etc. is somehow wrong to do. That isn't the point with the works vs. faith debate. The issue is only about what such works accomplish.

Please do not mistake the works of God, for the works of the Law.

You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. James 2:24

 

[New_Wineskin]

Surely we do what God asks because he asks them of us rather than that they accomplish anything.

Absolutely . Also , we cannot do what He asks unless He *does* ask and we believe He is asking us . That is not about works but about faith .

I would question why a person says that He is actually "asking" them in the first place . If they say that He asks "us" , I know that it is not about His asking but about dead works of the Law ( or a Law that they have accepted ) .

 

[Keachian]

But surely he has told you oh man of God what is good, what he requires of you, but to act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with him.

 

[New_Wineskin]

But surely he has told you oh man of God what is good, what he requires of you, but to act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with him.

Too bad about the women , huh ?

 

[Keachian]

To bad about the women , huh ?

I dunno maybe the original Hebrew is less constrained in its gender, I wouldn't be surprised if the word translated man is Adam, in which case it is as general as they come

 

[New_Wineskin]

I dunno maybe the original Hebrew is less constrained in its gender, I wouldn't be surprised if the word translated man is Adam, in which case it is as general as they come

Shows you how nearsighted translators are . If it means "person" no matter the gender , it was their job to translate it as such . Given that people look at the Scriptures as Law ( and translators know they do ) , it needs to be very clear .

 

[Keachian]

Well there have been many an uproar over even in context gender inclusivity, mainly from groups that would probably not touch anything but the KJV even with a ten foot pole, sigh literalism strikes again

 

[God's Word]

Hi guys, I am a Christian but I have a question about whether or not belief in God is enough to be saved.

Here are some verses that show that belief = salvation.

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, "Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame." -Romans 10:9-11
​

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. -John 3:16
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The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." -Acts 16:29-31
​

You guys get the point. And this sounds great. But, what about this?

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. -James 2:19
​

The way I understand it, "belief" in Jesus Christ isn't enough to be saved. True belief in Jesus will result in fruit that is evident by a lifestyle change, a heart change: that you want nothing else to do with the world that satisfies the needs of the flesh but really only care about satisfying God and being led by the Spirit.

However, if this is the case, what do we make of the first 3 verses I posted? They clearly seem to state that belief is all that is needed for salvation.

Can somebody please shine a light on this issue for me? I think how we understand salvation really changes how we live our lives and especially how we evangelize to others (in other words, if belief isn't enough to be saved, we shouldn't be spreading that as a final end).

Thank you for your help.

Hi, Noblerare.

I only read the first 4 pages of this thread (that's as much as I could stomach without getting sick) and, up until that point, nobody had actually addressed the first 3 verses that you posted, so I'll do so now. Before doing so, let me make the following general observation (and I couldn't care less if I get in trouble for doing so)...

It's literally SICKENING to me to see how so many (not all, THANK GOD!) professing Christians (and I'm NOT referring to you by any means) cherry-pick certain verses out of the Bible, totally ignoring their overall context, and basically use them as some sort of "magic wand" that wards off all of the other verses in the Bible. IOW, rather than deal with verses/truths which apparently make them uncomfortable, they cherry-pick a verse or two or three, out of context, and seek to contrast such uncomfortable verses/truths with such. Anyhow, let me now address your actual question...

Romans 10:9-11 is PRECEDED BY Romans 1:1-10:8. IOW, we need to read AND CONSIDER everything that been written up to this point to understand Romans 10:9-11 IN IT'S PROPER CONTEXT. Look, if I wrote you a 16 page letter/epistle, you wouldn't start reading part way through page 10 to understand what I'm saying, would you? Yet, this is precisely what many people do...and I'm personally convinced that many of them do it deliberately to somehow avoid the aforementioned "uncomfortable truths" which PRECEDE IT. In the previous chapters of Romans, we're clearly told that we need to REPENT (Romans 2:3-4), to patiently continue in well-doing or good works (Romans 2:6-11), to crucify our "old man" (Romans 6:6), to bury our "old man" by being baptized into Christ's death (Romans 6:3), to walk in newness of life as SERVANTS OR SLAVES to righteousness (6:8-23), etc., etc., etc. IOW, Romans does NOT teach "only believe". It's only when people cherry-pick verses out of their overall context that such erroneous doctrines prevail.

The same exact principle applies to the other two verses which you cited. If we KEEP ON READING (Jesus wasn't even finished speaking, folks), then this is what we'll see:

John 3:17-21

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world though him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. AND THIS IS THE CONDEMNATION, THAT LIGHT IS COME INTO THE WORLD, AND MEN LOVED DARKNESS RATHER THAN LIGHT, BECAUSE THEIR DEEDS WERE EVIL. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. BUT HE THAT DOETH TRUTH cometh to the light, THAT HIS DEEDS MAY BE MADE MANIFEST, THAT THEY ARE WROUGHT IN GOD."

Look, there's CLEARLY two different classifications of people here:

1. Those whose DEEDS ARE EVIL and don't want them reproved.
2. Those who DO TRUTH (NOT "only believe") and THEIR DEEDS ARE MANIFEST that they are WROUGHT or WORKED in God.

Jesus NEVER preached "easy believism". NEVER.

What about the Philippian jailer? Same principle, JUST KEEP READING...

Acts 16:32-34

"AND THEY SPAKE UNTO HIM THE WORD OF THE LORD, AND TO ALL THAT WERE IN HIS HOUSE. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; AND WAS BAPTIZED, HE AND ALL HIS, STRAIGHTWAY. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, BELIEVING IN GOD WITH ALL HIS HOUSE."

Look, this Phillipian jailer's "believing in God" was OBVIOUSLY based upon what Paul and Silas preached to him. I mean, c'mon, the guy and his family got BAPTIZED, didn't they? What does that tell you? Read Romans 6. I'm quite certain that Paul and Silas stressed to him and his family their need to REPENT, CRUCIFY THEIR OLD MAN, BURY HIM WITH CHRIST AND BE RAISED UP IN NEWNESS OF LIFE AS SERVANTS/SLAVES TO RIGHTEOUSNESS. Paul's gospel message was the same wherever he went and here it is, IN HIS OWN WORDS:

Acts 26:13-20

"At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they might receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among THEM WHICH ARE SANCTIFIED BY FAITH THAT IS IN ME. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I WAS NOT DISOBEDIENT UNTO THE HEAVENLY VISION: BUT SHEWED FIRST UNTO THEM OF DAMASCUS, AND AT JERUSALEM, AND THROUGHOUT ALL THE COASTS OF JUDEA, AND THEN TO THE GENTILES, THAT THEY SHOULD REPENT AND TURN TO GOD, AND DO WORKS MEET FOR REPENTANCE."

Did you catch that? Paul was NOT disobedient to what God called Him do. As such, wherever he went, whether among the Jews or among the Gentiles (such as the Phillipian jailer and his household), he told them TO REPENT AND TO DO WORKS WORTHY OF REPENTANCE. In this manner, his obedient hearers were "sanctified by faith that is in me (Jesus)". IOW, sanctifying faith INCLUDES repentance and works worthy of repentance. John the Baptist preached it, Jesus preached it, Paul preached it and Jesus instructed all of His disciples to preach it as well (Luke 24:47). "Only believe" won't cut it. Never has. Never will.

I hope that this helps to answer your question.

 

[B-74]

What is the law? Love God and neighbor? Is it not a good work to obey God and abstain from evil because he tells us to? And is it a good work to love thy neighbor as thy self, even when we don't feel like doing this from the heart? Should we do it anyway?

And what about the fruit the lord bears vs that of our own? Is it wrong to do a good work just because God commanded it? I cant see how it would be wrong unless we became proud and boasted in those works. But we should always pray for the Lord to bear fruit from the heart, yet for this happen we must abide in Him, and to abide we must obey.

If we do good works only because the apostles tell us to, is this wrong? Should we only do a good work when we "feel" like it in our heart? Or should we do them because God told us to?

God loves a cheerful giver, but what if it pleases us to give only because God said that covetousness is wrong and we want to obey Him by giving money away so it doesn't corrupt us?

Are works of the law such as abstaining from evil also good works? Not that we could ever boast in any good work, i would never want to do that, just raising questions.

 

[Lindas Place]

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Romans 11:29
for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

If I am saved by grace, through faith - a gift of God, and God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.......Salvation cannot be lost.

 

[listed]

If works aren't about accomplishment then God's asking us to do meaningless works

I think the issue is accomplishing what.