Is belief enough to be saved?

[Lindas Place]

Abe obeyed Gods will, whatever God said Abraham did. Again Jesus brought Grace and truth. Can we teach the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

And he did things God did not tell him to do... like lie about Sarah being his wife, not once but twice and sleeping with his servant girl to ensure God would follow through on His promise to provide a son. He wasn't perfect, but He was saved by faith... just like the rest of us.

 

[Frogster]

And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5

Just saying.

what were they? list em..

and when did he receive the gospel, and when was he rightoeusness? hint..12;3, and gen 15;6. All before the law.

again, does that passage say he was justified by laws?

hehehehehe

besides, no mention of that by paul who used abe as the man of faith, used to ward off law righteousnees, so all of the Pauline usgae of Abe, goes against your implication here.

 

[Lion King]

God’s word does not end there… read on, Jesus did something that the scoffers will never believe… He died for our sins...

I do not mean to sound rude, but Jesus Christ was speaking about the FUTURE in the book of Matthew; the day of judgement to be exact. Nothing's changed. Don't take my word for it, only take His word- This is what Jesus Christ said to John after ascending to heaven:

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ Revelation 3:1-6

 

[Frogster]

And he did things God did not tell him to do... like lie about Sarah being his wife, not once but twice and sleeping with his servant girl to ensure God would follow through on His promise to provide a son. He wasn't perfect, but He was saved by faith... just like the rest of us.

true..abe was still called ungodly...good man, but he was in adam also..




rom 4;5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

 

[Frogster]

I do not mean to sound rude, but Jesus Christ was speaking about the FUTURE in the book of Matthew; the day of judgement to be exact. Nothing's changed. Don't take my word for, only take His word- This is what Jesus Christ said to John after ascending to heaven:

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ Revelation 3:1-6

can you gives us scripture where clear grace doctrine is being taught?

no, we don't want to steal a car tomorrow, we know that.

 

[Lion King]

what were they? list em..

and when did he receive the gospel, and when was he rightoeusness? hint..12;3, and gen 15;6. All before the law.

again, does that passage say he was justified by laws?

hehehehehe

besides, no mention of that by paul who used abe as the man of faith, used to ward off law righteousnees, so all of the Pauline usgae of Abe, goes against your implication here.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:19-24


I surely do love the Scriptures.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

God’s word does not end there… read on, Jesus did something that the scoffers will never believe… He died for our sins...

Acts 13:40-42
40 Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you:
41 “‘Look, you scoffers,
wonder and perish,
for I am going to do something in your days
that you would never believe,
even if someone told you.”

Romans 4:4-8
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”

his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Corinthians 3 13-15

Amen, sister.

John 3:16-18: "16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

John 3:36: "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them."

John 5:24: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

John 11:25-26: " 25 Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in Me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?'”

John 20:30-31: "And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name."

Romans 1:16: "16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile."

Romans 3:21-26: "21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement through the shedding of His blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 He did it to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus."

Romans 5:1-2: "1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God."

Romans 10:9-10: "9 If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."

Ephesians 1:7-10: "7 In Him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that He lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ."

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10: "9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him."

 

[B-74]

And he did things God did not tell him to do... like lie about Sarah being his wife, not once but twice and sleeping with his servant girl to ensure God would follow through on His promise to provide a son. He wasn't perfect, but He was saved by faith... just like the rest of us.

That shows that no man is good, no not one. But may Gods will be done on earth as in heaven. That's the truth.



Gods Will and The Truth:

Mt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.


1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

 

[Lindas Place]

I do not mean to sound rude, but Jesus Christ was speaking about the FUTURE in the book of Matthew; the day of judgement to be exact. Nothing's changed. Don't take my word for it, only take His word-

So Jesus dieing on the cross changed nothing? that's not what the word say's...

and can you explain why this wicked man was credited with righteouness or how this man with no works made it into heaven?

Romans 4:4-8
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”

his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Corinthians 3 13-15

 

[B-74]

You can lead a horse in the dessert to water, but you cannot make them drink

 

[B-74]

his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Corinthians 3 13-15

You keep quoting that verse. Do you think its a good thing that a mans work be burned up? That work that burns up are men's souls. Why would we want to escape it and let the work burn?

 

[Whisper of Hope]

You can lead a horse in the dessert to water, but you cannot make them drink

 

[B-74]

Well, i must go now. Im getting depressed.

 

[Lindas Place]

That shows that no man is good, no not one. But may Gods will be done on earth as in heaven. That's the truth.



Gods Will and The Truth:

Mt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.


1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

Thank you B 74 for the encouraging scriptures… however, I’m not sure what your point is… we have already agreed that we are not saved by works. And we have already agreed that it is wise for God’s children to obey our Father… good scriptures though.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Well, i must go now. Im getting depressed.

I'm sorry, brother. I'll pray for you.

 

[Frogster]

And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5

Just saying.

besided, james and peter, agreed with paul's gospel, no adding law to the justification of the gentiles. Then peter, while talking about the gospel, said cleansed by faith and grace, in acts 15, just like what paul says.

now since they did not want to add the highest law, moses, why wouldn't that cover all works?

james said so!

 

[Lindas Place]

You keep quoting that verse. Do you think its a good thing that a mans work be burned up? That work that burns up are men's souls. Why would we want to escape it and let the work burn?

the bible say's it is not good.... in fact, though we will be saved, we will suffer lose of rewards... that may not seem important right now, but it will be very sad when we get to heaven and see what we could have had... I'm sure God's rewards are awesome...

 

[Whisper of Hope]

the bible say's it is not good.... in fact, though we will be saved, we will suffer lose of rewards... that may not seem important right now, but it will be very sad when we get to heaven and see what we could have had... I'm sure God's rewards are awesome...

I don't think it's possible to be sad when we get to Heaven.

 

[Lion King]

So Jesus dieing on the cross changed nothing? that's not what the word say's...

and can you explain why this wicked man was credited with righteouness or how this man with no works made it into heaven?

Yes, Jesus Christ's death changed nothing, in regards to what you are trying to imply. Jesus did not die so that we can continue to sin, and go to heaven.


A man with faith, but no works to show for his faith made it to heaven, you say? NEVER!

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:3-5

_ _ _ _

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” Luke 10:25-28

_ _ _ _

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

_ _ _ _

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17


No one, I REPEAT, no one will make it to the Kingdom of God without obeying His commandments (Love). Faith alone just simply will not cut it.

 

[B-74]

the bible say's it is not good.... in fact, though we will be saved, we will suffer lose of rewards... that may not seem important right now, but it will be very sad when we get to heaven and see what we could have had... I'm sure God's rewards are awesome...

Put the reward aside for a moment, think of the truth people will not see, think of the the work as people who will never know the truth that will set them free.


Any body can say they faith that's easy. Proving we have faith is the hard part. We must pray that God help us, we must obey God, without doing that our faith is in vain, it will not save us.

I need a break to clear my head, that's all, this stuff gets exhausting after to long. I'll talk to you guys later linda, Whisper of Hope, Frogster, everyone else.

May God bless us all.