Is Baptismal Regeneration False?

[Natsumi Lam]

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[Natsumi Lam]

Good. Since God's word and promise is sufficient, then looking for signs, proofs, etc is the work of the sinful flesh; because faith does not look inward to the works of man, but outward to the works of God. Faith looks to God's word and believes it, trusts it.

If you are looking for signs then that isn't faith.



Bingo. We are fallen, broken, fallible sinners. So we don't look to ourselves, to our intellect, our reason, our understanding. If we look inward we will find nothing but dead bones, that is why we must look outside of ourselves. I'm not saved because I said this, or thought that, or feel this way, or subscribe to theological propositions X, Y, and/or Z; I'm saved because Jesus Christ suffered, died, and rose from the dead and the Holy Spirit has taken hold of me through the Gospel, giving me faith, and taking what was dead and making it alive.

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:1-9

-CryptoLutheran

Ok again

1. Can a standard infant understand complex language or the gospel message? Can a deaf person hear? Can a foreigner hear a language and understand the message? There has to be context.

2. These are the signs that follow...just pick one...can an infant do even one?

3. Salvation belief in heart...how can you tell if an infant believes? You confess...how does an infant confess?

4. What action from the infant signifies belief let alone comprehension?

Therefore, infant baptism is just fire safe insurance.

 

[Saint Steven]

Well as I do not know where you are referring to in scripture I cannot answer.

You wrote, "We are given the fulness of the spirit at the moment of salvation."
So I asked what went wrong in Samaria. The Apostles had to lay hands on the newly baptized believers for them to receive the Holy Spirit. Because they weren't "given the fulness of the spirit at the moment of salvation." (as you claimed)

Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

 

[Saint Steven]

You love straining the gnats. It said when they were gathered- it didn't say how long that the Spirit descended on them. They could have been together for several days in prayer for allwe know. I personally don't care. What is important is that when they were gathered (whether it was the same gathering in Acts 1 is irrelavent to me) that the Spirit descended! That is the point of the writing. If you wish to make the time frames the critical issue- that is your privilege, if that is what floats your boat!

Don't be such a sore loser. Can't you admit when you are wrong?

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes seriously! That is a pure hypothetical if I wrote, because Jesus knew the nation would reject him and the offer of the kingdom to Israel would be given to a future generation. But make no mistake, starting with John the Baptist until the leaders of Israel committed the unpardonable sin- Jesus and the disciples were announcing that the long awaited kingdom was present! Matthew 12:23 to the end of the chapter shows that the leaders of Israel rejected their Messiah on the basis of demon possession and after that the entire ministry of Jesus changed and the gospel of the kingdom was no longer preached!

Even the apostles recognized the change in Jesus teaching for they asked why did he now teach in parables in Matt. 13

Quite the vivid imagination.

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't know what you are trying to get at?

Paul was a believer before he met Ananias.
A believer ripe for baptismal cleansing, in the name of Jesus Christ, and the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Samaria?
An act of God to show that God could use the apostles to give the Holy Ghost.
How did Philip know they had not received the baptism of the Holy Ghost?
They didn't speak in tongues.

Do you speak in tongues?

 

[Saint Steven]

Your "inward reality" is accomplished with the outward action.

How does that work? - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't believe in infant baptism because a baby has no sin to wash away.

What is the source of humanity's lostness?

 

[Saint Steven]

It is accomplished at water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
It is written..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Are you waiting for the final judgement to find out if you will be saved?

 

[Saint Steven]

That just shows- they could not enter the body of Christ (by the reception of the Holy spirit) until Peter opened the door for the Samaritans to enter the Kingdom Once Peter opened the way then all Samaritans would be saved and sealed by the Spirit instantaneously!

But now let me ask you a question. If you reject what the-keys mean as I have written- what do you say the keys that were given to Peter for?? Were they to institute the Popery?

Since when did Peter open the door for the Samaritans?

Why do you think the keys were only for Peter? Jesus was talking to ALL the disciples.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Ok again

1. Can a standard infant understand complex language or the gospel message? Can a deaf person hear? Can a foreigner hear a language and understand the message? There has to be context.

2. These are the signs that follow...just pick one...can an infant do even one?

3. Salvation belief in heart...how can you tell if an infant believes? You confess...how does an infant confess?

4. What action from the infant signifies belief let alone comprehension?

Therefore, infant baptism is just fire safe insurance.

An infant soul can meet the Spirit of God, rejoice, and receive the Word of God EVEN IN THE WOMB. That was case of John the Baptist who leaped for joy in his mother's womb, full of the Spirit, when Mary the mother of Jesus brought the news of her carrying the Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 1:15 Luke 1:44)

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

If you are someone opposed to the doctrine of baptismal regeneration, please give your reasons for being opposed, and preferably back up your argument from the text of Scripture.

Water baptism or Holy Spirit baptism? There is only One Baptism, and that is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit... being Born of God. Water does not remove sins. Only the Holy Spirit can cleanse the soul. The theif on the Cross received the One Baptism from Jesus Christ and was never dunked in water. The man in Acts 19:2-3 was dunked in water but had not received the One Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

An infant soul can meet the Spirit of God, rejoice, and receive the Word of God EVEN IN THE WOMB. That was case of John the Baptist who leaped for joy in his mother's womb, full of the Spirit, when Mary the mother of Jesus brought the news of her carrying the Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 1:15 Luke 1:44)

John, though, is hardly the normal case. A miracle happened. Elisabeth's joy and the Spirit's urging produced in him a supernatural movement.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Water baptism or Holy Spirit baptism? There is only One Baptism, and that is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit... being Born of God. Water does not remove sins. Only the Holy Spirit can cleanse the soul. The theif on the Cross received the One Baptism from Jesus Christ and was never dunked in water. The man in Acts 19:2-3 was dunked in water but had not received the One Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

There is two. Water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism. Acts 2. .....Pentacost is an example.

 

[Phil W]

So do you believe in sinless perfection in order to be saved?
I attribute the bad works to my old man, the human nature, the flesh as it is called. The old man is not resurrected as a new man- it is postionally killed and we become a brand new creature! God has declared me perfect- and now he is making me holy day by day! Hebrews 10:14.

I'll address both of your comments with scripture...
It is written..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.' (Rom 6:5-7)
Why wasn't your old man killed, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life?
Why were you not "freed from sin"?

I do not believe in a license to sin because every single one of my sins have already been judicially forgiven, but I also know that Jesus has already paid for every single on of my sins past present and future, so now I have the very righteousness of christ within me!

It seems you do believe that, and have presented a doctrine to prove it.

Yes Adam was kicked out of paradise for one sin- do you believe you will be kicked out of your paradise by one sin?

Why would my disobedience garner a different outcome?
Especially after Christ died to free me from sin?

 

[Phil W]

Do you speak in tongues?

Yes, I did...thanks be to God.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Yes, I did...thanks be to God.

Amen

 

[Phil W]

How does that work? - lol

Turn from sin and get (water) baptized and then you can ask God for the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13)
Then you will find out. (Acts 2:38)

 

[Phil W]

What is the source of humanity's lostness?

That would derail this thread.
Sin is the answer, though.

 

[Phil W]

Are you waiting for the final judgement to find out if you will be saved?

I will either meet Christ in the air at His return, if I live till then, or be judged with everybody else at the final judgement.